Maybe if there was some sort of huge power disparity between the two I'd agree with you. But we're talking about two rich people arguing in central park over a dog.
Ponderable
- Thread starter Bruddah IZ
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Maybe if there was some sort of huge power disparity between the two I'd agree with you. But we're talking about two rich people arguing in central park over a dog.
For what it's worth...
https://www.npr.org/2019/07/26/7457...s-are-not-more-likely-to-shoot-minority-suspe
NATIONAL
New Study Says White Police Officers Are Not More Likely To Shoot Minority Suspects
July 26, 20195:21 PM ET
A new peer-reviewed study of fatal police shootings says that white officers are not more likely to shoot and kill minority suspects. Critics contend it doesn't address racial disparities by police.
ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
When you look at the number of police shootings in relation to the population, you find that people of color are shot and killed more often than white people. The reason for that disparity has been intensely debated for years, especially since an unarmed black teenager was shot and killed in Ferguson, Mo. almost five years ago.
There has been one recurring theory, that white cops are more likely to shoot black people because of racial bias. Now a new study is challenging that conclusion. NPR's Martin Kaste has more.
MARTIN KASTE, BYLINE: Since the Ferguson protests of 2014, we've learned a lot more about fatal shootings by the police. News organizations started collecting their own data on shootings to make up for incomplete federal stats, and academics started building on that. Michigan State University psychologist Joseph Cesario is part of a group that looked at fatal shootings in 2015. They added in the race of the police, and then did a statistical analysis.
JOSEPH CESARIO: The race of a police officer did not predict the race of the citizen shot. In other words, black officers were just as likely to shoot black citizens as white officers were.
KASTE: Other studies have looked at this question, but this one comes closest to being a nationwide analysis. It's also getting extra attention because it's in a prestigious peer-reviewed journal, the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. And that puzzles Philip Atiba Goff.
PHILIP ATIBA GOFF: I'm a bit surprised that this made its way into PNAS given what they actually found.
KASTE: Goff is a prominent researcher in issues of race and criminal justice and the co-founder of the Center for Policing Equity. He says he applauds the authors for bringing in new data and trying a new approach, but he doesn't think they came up with much.
GOFF: It doesn't do very much to move us towards an understanding of how much are police responsible for racial disparities. And the things it does sort of lead us to are things that we already knew.
KASTE: For instance, he says if the study is aiming to debunk the assumption that white cops shoot people for racist reasons while black cops don't, he says that's a strawman because no one in his field actually thinks that.
GOFF: Racism is not a thing that white people can have and black people can't. And nobody's research would suggest that it does. That's a really wild premise based in no research that no serious scientist should be able to say out loud and then get it published.
KASTE: But the paper's lead author, David J. Johnson of the University of Maryland, says some academics do make that assumption, especially in his field, psychology. And he believes the same assumption is being made by the media.
DAVID J JOHNSON: I think that you see that in reporting on individual shootings, where they'll mention the race of the officer. And the reason that they mention that is because it's perceived as being relevant. So what we did was, for the first time, tested that assumption.
KASTE: Johnson takes pains to say that this study is not trying to deny the role of race. Instead, what they're trying to do is narrow down where it's having its effect on policing. He says it also raises some questions about a common fix for biased policing, the push to hire more minority officers because if this study is right, just hiring more black cops will not mean fewer black people get shot. And that fits with what implicit bias trainers say.
LORIE FRIDELL: People can have biases against their own demographic groups. Women can have biases about women. Blacks can have biases about blacks. It is incorrect to assume that any issue of bias in policing is brought to us by white males.
KASTE: Lorie Fridell is a criminologist as well as a bias trainer. She says academics have been wrestling with this question for decades, and this latest paper is not about to settle things.
FRIDELL: The defenders of police, of course, will cherry-pick the studies that show no bias. And the other side will cherry-pick the ones that do. But we don't have any definitive studies on this.
KASTE: She thinks people should be more open to the idea that bias and demographics can both play a role. And that's something that the authors of the paper and their critics both seem to agree on.
The real question here is not whether race is a factor in police shootings, but when? Is it beforehand in all the things that might lead up to a shooting, such as drug laws or racial profiling? Or does it come down to the skin color of the individual cop holding the gun?
Martin Kaste, NPR News.
https://www.npr.org/2019/07/26/7457...s-are-not-more-likely-to-shoot-minority-suspe
NATIONAL
New Study Says White Police Officers Are Not More Likely To Shoot Minority Suspects
July 26, 20195:21 PM ET
A new peer-reviewed study of fatal police shootings says that white officers are not more likely to shoot and kill minority suspects. Critics contend it doesn't address racial disparities by police.
ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
When you look at the number of police shootings in relation to the population, you find that people of color are shot and killed more often than white people. The reason for that disparity has been intensely debated for years, especially since an unarmed black teenager was shot and killed in Ferguson, Mo. almost five years ago.
There has been one recurring theory, that white cops are more likely to shoot black people because of racial bias. Now a new study is challenging that conclusion. NPR's Martin Kaste has more.
MARTIN KASTE, BYLINE: Since the Ferguson protests of 2014, we've learned a lot more about fatal shootings by the police. News organizations started collecting their own data on shootings to make up for incomplete federal stats, and academics started building on that. Michigan State University psychologist Joseph Cesario is part of a group that looked at fatal shootings in 2015. They added in the race of the police, and then did a statistical analysis.
JOSEPH CESARIO: The race of a police officer did not predict the race of the citizen shot. In other words, black officers were just as likely to shoot black citizens as white officers were.
KASTE: Other studies have looked at this question, but this one comes closest to being a nationwide analysis. It's also getting extra attention because it's in a prestigious peer-reviewed journal, the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. And that puzzles Philip Atiba Goff.
PHILIP ATIBA GOFF: I'm a bit surprised that this made its way into PNAS given what they actually found.
KASTE: Goff is a prominent researcher in issues of race and criminal justice and the co-founder of the Center for Policing Equity. He says he applauds the authors for bringing in new data and trying a new approach, but he doesn't think they came up with much.
GOFF: It doesn't do very much to move us towards an understanding of how much are police responsible for racial disparities. And the things it does sort of lead us to are things that we already knew.
KASTE: For instance, he says if the study is aiming to debunk the assumption that white cops shoot people for racist reasons while black cops don't, he says that's a strawman because no one in his field actually thinks that.
GOFF: Racism is not a thing that white people can have and black people can't. And nobody's research would suggest that it does. That's a really wild premise based in no research that no serious scientist should be able to say out loud and then get it published.
KASTE: But the paper's lead author, David J. Johnson of the University of Maryland, says some academics do make that assumption, especially in his field, psychology. And he believes the same assumption is being made by the media.
DAVID J JOHNSON: I think that you see that in reporting on individual shootings, where they'll mention the race of the officer. And the reason that they mention that is because it's perceived as being relevant. So what we did was, for the first time, tested that assumption.
KASTE: Johnson takes pains to say that this study is not trying to deny the role of race. Instead, what they're trying to do is narrow down where it's having its effect on policing. He says it also raises some questions about a common fix for biased policing, the push to hire more minority officers because if this study is right, just hiring more black cops will not mean fewer black people get shot. And that fits with what implicit bias trainers say.
LORIE FRIDELL: People can have biases against their own demographic groups. Women can have biases about women. Blacks can have biases about blacks. It is incorrect to assume that any issue of bias in policing is brought to us by white males.
KASTE: Lorie Fridell is a criminologist as well as a bias trainer. She says academics have been wrestling with this question for decades, and this latest paper is not about to settle things.
FRIDELL: The defenders of police, of course, will cherry-pick the studies that show no bias. And the other side will cherry-pick the ones that do. But we don't have any definitive studies on this.
KASTE: She thinks people should be more open to the idea that bias and demographics can both play a role. And that's something that the authors of the paper and their critics both seem to agree on.
The real question here is not whether race is a factor in police shootings, but when? Is it beforehand in all the things that might lead up to a shooting, such as drug laws or racial profiling? Or does it come down to the skin color of the individual cop holding the gun?
Martin Kaste, NPR News.
Hüsker Dü
DA
"peer review" might as well ask fossil fuel executives about global warming . . . and what about putting all of ones weight on someones throat? It's OK his bud trump will pardon him and get him on the team!
Didn't read nor comprehend what the article was about, you continue removing any doubt....then you finish your nonsense with pathological blather.
Lion, you stupid old coot.
Not only do you jump to the defense of racist cops when they are not the subject of discussion, but you post an entirely irrelevant article saying that black cops my be just as racist against black people as white cops are.
Thanks for the info, dipshit. Now go back under your rock.
I had thought the push was toward community policing was a really positive development, but from the sounds of this article that doesn't work as well as was hoped.
Honestly I don't know where we go next. Here in NYC there has been a huge push to release prisoners from the jails, and wow have the crime rates jumped. So this is another area where the government (both dems and republicans) seems to have run out of workable ideas.
Floyd was unconscious.
If charges are =brought against the cops, don't be surprised to see their lawyers advance the theory that since Lloyd was being arrested for suspicion of committing a felony, then he is guilty of his own murder.
QUOTE="messy, post: 329208, member: 3299"
View attachment 7323
/QUOTE
The one on the left was a TOOL who further created/fomented/seeded the callous Democrat no regard
for freedom/life attitude displayed on the right........
Just ask the Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey (Democrat).
Just ask the Minnesota Gov Tim Waltz (Democrat).
Just ask New York Gov Andrew Cuomo (Democrat) how he treats " Human Beings ".....
Date on below attachment Aug 4-2013:
www.startribune.com
View attachment 7323
/QUOTE
The one on the left was a TOOL who further created/fomented/seeded the callous Democrat no regard
for freedom/life attitude displayed on the right........
Just ask the Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey (Democrat).
Just ask the Minnesota Gov Tim Waltz (Democrat).
Just ask New York Gov Andrew Cuomo (Democrat) how he treats " Human Beings ".....
Date on below attachment Aug 4-2013:
For decades, Minneapolis police have been accused of racial bias
Calls are renewed for oversight, discipline in the wake of two recent cases.
www.startribune.com
Sheriff Joe
DA
It’s a good thing I am not running this place.
Sheriff Joe
DA
How do you know they are racist?
Sheriff Joe
DA
BREAKING NEWS: LA protester falls off police car during rally
Around 1,000 protesters descended on LA in a Black Lives Matter protest after footage emerged Tuesday showing a white cop kneeling on George Floyd's neck moments before he died in custody.
Sheriff Joe
DA
All Hell Broke Loose In Minneapolis and 'Armed Rednecks' Stepped In to Protect Businesses
Beth Baumann | May 28, 2020 1:39 AM
Source: Twitter/Screenshot
Chaos erupted in Minneapolis Wednesday night, with people looting and rioting following the death of George Lloyd, a black man who was killed by a white police officer.
Two men decided to utilize their Second Amendment rights to prevent people from looting nearby stores.
"Basically, you've seen the records the cops keep and the cops are a lot less likely to tread on people's rights when there's other armed Americans with them. So we figured it's about damn time – or at least I figure it's about damn time – for some heavily armed rednecks stood with fellow citizens," the one man explained.
The two men were asked why they were protecting the particular businesses they were in front of. They said they had been patrolling businesses nearby and ended up in that parking lot because the smoke shop was closed but the owners were having the defend their business.
"We heard that and figured 'Well, we better get up and go see if these guys need help,'" the second man said, pointing to the smoke shop behind him. "It turns out these guys are out here with machetes and trying to keep looters out of their business because the cops can't get out here. And so, I figured, before there were cops there were Americans. So here we are."
The men referenced the Los Angeles riots in 1992 following the arrest and beating of Rodney King.
"They were there protecting their own stuff. You got Rooftop Koreans," the first man said, referencing the Korean business owners in L.A. who defended their businesses.
"Bottom line: justice for George Floyd but I hope they stop looting at some point. If there were more of us, we could stop them from looting," the second man explained. "But it's just us four."
The first man made it very clear that they don't agree with looting and destroying the neighborhood but they agree with protestors wanting justice for George Floyd.
What these men are doing is a prime example of why the Second Amendment is extremely important and why so many fight to keep it alive. The Rooftop Koreans relied on firearms to protect themselves, their families and their businesses during the Rodney King riots. The same thing is happening in Minneapolis. The police can't be at all places at all times.
Beth Baumann | May 28, 2020 1:39 AM
Source: Twitter/Screenshot
Chaos erupted in Minneapolis Wednesday night, with people looting and rioting following the death of George Lloyd, a black man who was killed by a white police officer.
Two men decided to utilize their Second Amendment rights to prevent people from looting nearby stores.
"Basically, you've seen the records the cops keep and the cops are a lot less likely to tread on people's rights when there's other armed Americans with them. So we figured it's about damn time – or at least I figure it's about damn time – for some heavily armed rednecks stood with fellow citizens," the one man explained.
The two men were asked why they were protecting the particular businesses they were in front of. They said they had been patrolling businesses nearby and ended up in that parking lot because the smoke shop was closed but the owners were having the defend their business.
"We heard that and figured 'Well, we better get up and go see if these guys need help,'" the second man said, pointing to the smoke shop behind him. "It turns out these guys are out here with machetes and trying to keep looters out of their business because the cops can't get out here. And so, I figured, before there were cops there were Americans. So here we are."
The men referenced the Los Angeles riots in 1992 following the arrest and beating of Rodney King.
"They were there protecting their own stuff. You got Rooftop Koreans," the first man said, referencing the Korean business owners in L.A. who defended their businesses.
"Bottom line: justice for George Floyd but I hope they stop looting at some point. If there were more of us, we could stop them from looting," the second man explained. "But it's just us four."
The first man made it very clear that they don't agree with looting and destroying the neighborhood but they agree with protestors wanting justice for George Floyd.
What these men are doing is a prime example of why the Second Amendment is extremely important and why so many fight to keep it alive. The Rooftop Koreans relied on firearms to protect themselves, their families and their businesses during the Rodney King riots. The same thing is happening in Minneapolis. The police can't be at all places at all times.
Hüsker Dü
DA
Good ole boys doing the right thing, good for them!All Hell Broke Loose In Minneapolis and 'Armed Rednecks' Stepped In to Protect Businesses
Beth Baumann | May 28, 2020 1:39 AM
Source: Twitter/Screenshot
Chaos erupted in Minneapolis Wednesday night, with people looting and rioting following the death of George Lloyd, a black man who was killed by a white police officer.
Two men decided to utilize their Second Amendment rights to prevent people from looting nearby stores.
"Basically, you've seen the records the cops keep and the cops are a lot less likely to tread on people's rights when there's other armed Americans with them. So we figured it's about damn time – or at least I figure it's about damn time – for some heavily armed rednecks stood with fellow citizens," the one man explained.
The two men were asked why they were protecting the particular businesses they were in front of. They said they had been patrolling businesses nearby and ended up in that parking lot because the smoke shop was closed but the owners were having the defend their business.
"We heard that and figured 'Well, we better get up and go see if these guys need help,'" the second man said, pointing to the smoke shop behind him. "It turns out these guys are out here with machetes and trying to keep looters out of their business because the cops can't get out here. And so, I figured, before there were cops there were Americans. So here we are."
The men referenced the Los Angeles riots in 1992 following the arrest and beating of Rodney King.
"They were there protecting their own stuff. You got Rooftop Koreans," the first man said, referencing the Korean business owners in L.A. who defended their businesses.
"Bottom line: justice for George Floyd but I hope they stop looting at some point. If there were more of us, we could stop them from looting," the second man explained. "But it's just us four."
The first man made it very clear that they don't agree with looting and destroying the neighborhood but they agree with protestors wanting justice for George Floyd.
What these men are doing is a prime example of why the Second Amendment is extremely important and why so many fight to keep it alive. The Rooftop Koreans relied on firearms to protect themselves, their families and their businesses during the Rodney King riots. The same thing is happening in Minneapolis. The police can't be at all places at all times.
When I see pics of Floyd, he looks huge and I wonder if handcuffs would fit on his wrists. Just based on a single psychology 101 class in college, I can see how when he started pushing back is met by an over reaction by the officers. They were likely terrified and ended up killing this guy because they lost control.
This make me think maybe the larger issue is how these guys are trained?
I agree with your question but there was nothing “out of control” about those cops. They were very calm and matter of fact as one of them crushed his neck and killed him.
Ugh. I haven't watched the video because I know it will just get me pissed.
Lock them up is my vote.
Hüsker Dü
DA
They wanted him to die, all 4 of them. The cops just standing there are complicit as well. After a minute or so I think one would say, "ok we got him, lets get him in the car and get him downtown."