Poaching Players (Team Manager Ethics)

I am not complaining at all. It is my opinion that when you take on a managerial role you chose to take a leadership position. And, I think you have a responsibility to the club. In the example of the team having to forfeit a game because of this situation, that is terrible. The manager could have prevented that. In some situations the club could be fined for that. Do not choose to "Manage" if you do not want that responsibility. If players want to leave, then leave. But, it takes a lack of ethics to coordinate an effort to dismantle a team mid-season to fulfill your self interest.

I find your ethic demonstrated in your use of the phrase 'rat out'. Is protecting the club a bad thing?
 
GT45 said:
I am not complaining at all. It is my opinion that when you take on a managerial role you chose to take a leadership position. And, I think you have a responsibility to the club. In the example of the team having to forfeit a game because of this situation, that is terrible. The manager could have prevented that. In some situations the club could be fined for that. Do not choose to "Manage" if you do not want that responsibility. If players want to leave, then leave. But, it takes a lack of ethics to coordinate an effort to dismantle a team mid-season to fulfill your self interest.

I find your ethic demonstrated in your use of the phrase 'rat out'. Is protecting the club a bad thing?
Click to expand...

You said he told them to go to the game, which isn’t exactly contributing to dismantling a team. If a club pays you nothing, you owe them nothing.

My “ethic” is that you can only control yourself and should do what is best for yourself. You should not expect anyone to do what is best for you, especially if it is something they don’t want to do. People use the word “poach” as a substitute for their feelings are hurt that they can’t control someone and make them do what you want.

My “ethic” also involves self-reflection. So, I ask you again, why do you want to be around people who don’t want to be around you?
 
GT45 said:
I am not complaining at all. It is my opinion that when you take on a managerial role you chose to take a leadership position. And, I think you have a responsibility to the club. In the example of the team having to forfeit a game because of this situation, that is terrible. The manager could have prevented that. In some situations the club could be fined for that. Do not choose to "Manage" if you do not want that responsibility. If players want to leave, then leave. But, it takes a lack of ethics to coordinate an effort to dismantle a team mid-season to fulfill your self interest.

I find your ethic demonstrated in your use of the phrase 'rat out'. Is protecting the club a bad thing?
Click to expand...
Interesting take. Every awesome team manager I've seen takes on the role of managing the team but they are NOT present to ensure that players remain with the club or team. That's something the coach and club is responsible for. Team Managers also don't make decisions as to whether players get cut from teams. The only time I've seen a TM affect a coaching decision or retention/cut decision is when the TM was manipulative. The Coach and the Club's actions dictate whether players/parents remain with the team and club. Team managers help with tourney fee collections, travel and jerseys. They are not employees of the Club and should not be expected to act as an employee of the Club.

If you have a TM that sides with the Club and becomes the eyes and ears for the club, the parents will not be able to trust TMs. The club would be putting the TM in a very tough position with other parents on the team.

I don't see an ethical issue with the TM leaving and working to attract other players on the team to leave with the TM. If the Club and Coach are doing their job to provide the service the players and parents need, then the TM won't leave. Don't blame the TM for others leaving, we are all adults and each of those parents are responsible for their own choices. We've seen this happen, we stayed, but we saw their reason for leaving. It just wasn't enough for us to leave.

If you look back at what happened throughout the year and paid attention to the problems that went unresolved, you'll see why people left. There are always legitimate reasons. People don't leave a comfortable situation unless there are problems.
 
90% of time this has to do with expectations not meeting reality. Training, league, tournaments didn't go as planned so let's go shopping around.

Expectations could be the team should be performing better, certain players not get stats, equal playing time, positions or whatever it is that's the real root of the discontent.

The I in team well that's another topic, most managers have some sort of built-in conflict of interest it's how they deal with that or not often makes the difference for the good ones.

We've been fortunate throughout the years with some great managers but after a certain level & age parents are not really involved anymore or limited as the organization has professional or outside managers to deal with all the logistics.

One of the keys is really communication! teach your kids early to communicate with the coach, managers, other players for themselves to discuss things at anytime.
 
How much of this goes back to “we tried out. We accepted. And then a few weeks later we had a new coach”.
 
Zlatan left la galaxy and moved to Milan.

If they fulfilled their commitment all are free to leave.

If team has enough players, they could still force their way out or threaten not to play and become the Pogba of the team.

I think any team should expect the top few players in a team to leave for a higher level team. The bottom few will drop out too either for lack of interest or in search of more playing time.
 
my viewpoint is the first time the club and or the coach is not honest or transparent with the parents or TM the cancer begins. remember the TM is also a parent of a player in most cases and what side do you think they will take. I have seen this happen all too many times. no better recruiter than a TM or parent who feels they have been wronged.
 
I have read each post and see truth in all that have posted. Thanks

The one part of this conversation that I believe we have forgotten: What are the kids learning about friendships and sports in this situation?

From my point of view “the kids” are learning that all players are expendable. Players on “your team” are just steppingstones to getting to the next level. Before this issue arose, I believed my kid could have had lifelong friendships on the team… After this, I do not believe that is the case.

The parents in “Soccer Clubs” claim they are doing it for the kids, but their actions show a different side. These duplicitous parents, like our former TM, say “let the kids play” until they see an advantage. The “meritocracy,” they preach goes out the window. IT’S THE KIDS MERIT NOT THE PARENTS MERIT.

Lesson learned… let your kid play and develop friendships but remind them that some do not have their best interests in mind.
Go to a strong club… if your club is weak… this will happen.
 
Daijobdes said:
I have read each post and see truth in all that have posted. Thanks

The one part of this conversation that I believe we have forgotten: What are the kids learning about friendships and sports in this situation?

From my point of view “the kids” are learning that all players are expendable. Players on “your team” are just steppingstones to getting to the next level. Before this issue arose, I believed my kid could have had lifelong friendships on the team… After this, I do not believe that is the case.

The parents in “Soccer Clubs” claim they are doing it for the kids, but their actions show a different side. These duplicitous parents, like our former TM, say “let the kids play” until they see an advantage. The “meritocracy,” they preach goes out the window. IT’S THE KIDS MERIT NOT THE PARENTS MERIT.

Lesson learned… let your kid play and develop friendships but remind them that some do not have their best interests in mind.
Go to a strong club… if your club is weak… this will happen.
Click to expand...

You got it. I felt the same way for the first few years... but at the end of the day, nobody cares about you or your kid. Most are out for themselves... and I believe the parents drive the jealousy that will end up killing any intention (you have) to "build" some kind of team. Parents want to win but they don't want your kid doing better than theirs. There are coaches with the best intentions, and there are parents that are not out there looking for UCLA to approach their kid at SURF, but those kids always weed themselves out with time.
 
Daijobdes said:
I have read each post and see truth in all that have posted. Thanks

The one part of this conversation that I believe we have forgotten: What are the kids learning about friendships and sports in this situation?

From my point of view “the kids” are learning that all players are expendable. Players on “your team” are just steppingstones to getting to the next level. Before this issue arose, I believed my kid could have had lifelong friendships on the team… After this, I do not believe that is the case.

The parents in “Soccer Clubs” claim they are doing it for the kids, but their actions show a different side. These duplicitous parents, like our former TM, say “let the kids play” until they see an advantage. The “meritocracy,” they preach goes out the window. IT’S THE KIDS MERIT NOT THE PARENTS MERIT.

Lesson learned… let your kid play and develop friendships but remind them that some do not have their best interests in mind.
Go to a strong club… if your club is weak… this will happen.
Click to expand...
Agree, but you left out lots of other atrocious adult behavior in youth sports. Speaking badly of other kids in front of their kids, ranking kids on the team in front of their kids, making fun of other kids in front of their kids, lack of loyalty, lack of commitment - if something isn't exactly how you think it should be leave it - not referring to legitimate cases of unsafe situations of course, or individuals moving between seasons, but lots of moving for "better teams" or in the middle of a season and in strategic clusters as the OP described.

And then we complain that the youth these days are entitled, lack perseverance, and are bullies, etc. etc. .....

There are of course authentic, fun, ethical parents that we have met and have become friends with but plenty of experience with the others too.
 
Daijobdes said:
I have read each post and see truth in all that have posted. Thanks

The one part of this conversation that I believe we have forgotten: What are the kids learning about friendships and sports in this situation?

From my point of view “the kids” are learning that all players are expendable. Players on “your team” are just steppingstones to getting to the next level. Before this issue arose, I believed my kid could have had lifelong friendships on the team… After this, I do not believe that is the case.

The parents in “Soccer Clubs” claim they are doing it for the kids, but their actions show a different side. These duplicitous parents, like our former TM, say “let the kids play” until they see an advantage. The “meritocracy,” they preach goes out the window. IT’S THE KIDS MERIT NOT THE PARENTS MERIT.

Lesson learned… let your kid play and develop friendships but remind them that some do not have their best interests in mind.
Go to a strong club… if your club is weak… this will happen.
Click to expand...

Based on what I have seen, this level of drama happens in less than 1% of teams. Normally, one or two kids will leave each year and that is it. Not really something you need to prepare emotional armor for.

It happens at strong clubs, too. The one up by us was the best team in the state. But they were the one with the over the top parent drama.
 
Daijobdes said:
I have read each post and see truth in all that have posted. Thanks

The one part of this conversation that I believe we have forgotten: What are the kids learning about friendships and sports in this situation?

From my point of view “the kids” are learning that all players are expendable. Players on “your team” are just steppingstones to getting to the next level. Before this issue arose, I believed my kid could have had lifelong friendships on the team… After this, I do not believe that is the case.

The parents in “Soccer Clubs” claim they are doing it for the kids, but their actions show a different side. These duplicitous parents, like our former TM, say “let the kids play” until they see an advantage. The “meritocracy,” they preach goes out the window. IT’S THE KIDS MERIT NOT THE PARENTS MERIT.

Lesson learned… let your kid play and develop friendships but remind them that some do not have their best interests in mind.
Go to a strong club… if your club is weak… this will happen.
Click to expand...

The self-pity is getting out of control. If a “friend” is bent out of shape that some teammates are seeking out better opportunities for themselves, they aren’t really a friend at all. What kind of “friend” tells his friends they need to do what I want or you can’t be my friend? If you want to be a good friend to someone, be happy for them when they go somewhere that is a better fit, don’t get whiny that you can’t control other people and make them do what is best for you, but not them. Why do you think kids on a soccer team can only be lifelong friends if they play together forever?
 
Daijobdes said:
I have read each post and see truth in all that have posted. Thanks

The one part of this conversation that I believe we have forgotten: What are the kids learning about friendships and sports in this situation?

From my point of view “the kids” are learning that all players are expendable. Players on “your team” are just steppingstones to getting to the next level. Before this issue arose, I believed my kid could have had lifelong friendships on the team… After this, I do not believe that is the case.

The parents in “Soccer Clubs” claim they are doing it for the kids, but their actions show a different side. These duplicitous parents, like our former TM, say “let the kids play” until they see an advantage. The “meritocracy,” they preach goes out the window. IT’S THE KIDS MERIT NOT THE PARENTS MERIT.

Lesson learned… let your kid play and develop friendships but remind them that some do not have their best interests in mind.
Go to a strong club… if your club is weak… this will happen.
Click to expand...
Had a college coach tell me that it’s most important that the player is playing for him/herself first, team second. Friendships will develop, but can’t put too much importance on them. Friendships can get in the way of decision making when it comes to personal advancement.
 
Daijobdes said:
I agree... the TM was very supportive throughout the year. He was very open until he was not...

Everything changed, the last week of January. Half the team didn’t show up for a game. He was telling everyone to go to the game because he ran the Shutterfly. Team had to forfeit . Parents called and he said “by the way the team is over, good luck.” Coach was shocked and angered… Half the parents knew what was going on the other half didn’t.

Funny the TM said this was a ‘meritocracy”… He always preaching it… It was a meritocracy until tryouts…if you knew there were tryouts…lol

Is the lesson?… its only about my kid not yours.
Click to expand...
Sounds like the team was doomed from the start with half the team focusing on development/competition and the other half viewing it as more of a social thing. Stop blaming the TM and like you said...focus on your own kids development if you want to save yourself heartache in the future. If your kid develops and is really good (and if the parents are not crazy) then teams will be asking her to come and tryout rather than not telling you about tryouts.
 
Daijobdes said:
I have read each post and see truth in all that have posted. Thanks

The one part of this conversation that I believe we have forgotten: What are the kids learning about friendships and sports in this situation?

From my point of view “the kids” are learning that all players are expendable. Players on “your team” are just steppingstones to getting to the next level. Before this issue arose, I believed my kid could have had lifelong friendships on the team… After this, I do not believe that is the case.

The parents in “Soccer Clubs” claim they are doing it for the kids, but their actions show a different side. These duplicitous parents, like our former TM, say “let the kids play” until they see an advantage. The “meritocracy,” they preach goes out the window. IT’S THE KIDS MERIT NOT THE PARENTS MERIT.

Lesson learned… let your kid play and develop friendships but remind them that some do not have their best interests in mind.
Go to a strong club… if your club is weak… this will happen.
Click to expand...
It happens at "strong" clubs. Lots of politics in strong clubs that can cause people to leave. Most of the problem lies with the coach and team make up. When it happened to us and my daughter cried because she was going to miss her teammates, it was tough on me to see her go through it. Eventually when the emotions went away, I took the opportunity to explain to her that friendships and bonds created on a soccer team are like friendships and bonds created in a classroom or a workplace. Once a friend is no longer working with you or placed in the same class, it then just takes more effort to stay friends with each other.
Whether your friend left because they were placed on a lower or a higher team or because the current situation wasn't working out for them (coach/club/a toxic parent/bully on team), should not define your friendship. Soccer allows you to meet many friends, some will stay for a season and come back once in a while. Some friendships will last a lifetime - depending on the effort and time you have to nourish it.

My daughter has been lucky enough to keep in contact and remain close friends with 2 of the girls that left. They play games online together, hang out at tournaments, have play dates, birthday parties, etc.

Most parents confer with their children to see what their kids want and most of the time the kids are the ones fed up with the situation first, prompting the parents to find options.

For the ones that don't, the parents are doing what they think is best for their child and it's not about hurting your child.
 
Emma said:
It happens at "strong" clubs. Lots of politics in strong clubs that can cause people to leave. Most of the problem lies with the coach and team make up. When it happened to us and my daughter cried because she was going to miss her teammates, it was tough on me to see her go through it. Eventually when the emotions went away, I took the opportunity to explain to her that friendships and bonds created on a soccer team are like friendships and bonds created in a classroom or a workplace. Once a friend is no longer working with you or placed in the same class, it then just takes more effort to stay friends with each other.
Whether your friend left because they were placed on a lower or a higher team or because the current situation wasn't working out for them (coach/club/a toxic parent/bully on team), should not define your friendship. Soccer allows you to meet many friends, some will stay for a season and come back once in a while. Some friendships will last a lifetime - depending on the effort and time you have to nourish it.

My daughter has been lucky enough to keep in contact and remain close friends with 2 of the girls that left. They play games online together, hang out at tournaments, have play dates, birthday parties, etc.

Most parents confer with their children to see what their kids want and most of the time the kids are the ones fed up with the situation first, prompting the parents to find options.

For the ones that don't, the parents are doing what they think is best for their child and it's not about hurting your child.
Click to expand...
Good stuff Emma. You have a way with your words through your writing. I will say 100% you have been one of the most consistent posters on here. Middle and fair. You see both sides. I mean that.
 
In most cases when I've seen a clique within a team make a sneaky move to another team - It lasts about a season.
"These 6 players carry the team. Those other 9 aren't good enough for our players. I know this coach that wants us to come and play for him. They'll be playing Flight 1 next year. And the coach played at a junior college for a year before he transferred to Chico state where he was on the team, but only played 5 minutes per year. But he is intense. I love hearing him scream and yell. Our current coach doesn't say a word during games. He sucks. I wish this season would end already so my little Becky can shine like the star I know she is. And your daughter has the biggest kick I've ever seen. This new coach will make sure she uses it by smashing the ball forward to Jenny. I'm so happy that Jenny is following us too. She is so fast, but our dumb coach plays her as an outside defender and she never gets to show her speed chasing down those big kicks."
 
timbuck said:
In most cases when I've seen a clique within a team make a sneaky move to another team - It lasts about a season.
"These 6 players carry the team. Those other 9 aren't good enough for our players. I know this coach that wants us to come and play for him. They'll be playing Flight 1 next year. And the coach played at a junior college for a year before he transferred to Chico state where he was on the team, but only played 5 minutes per year. But he is intense. I love hearing him scream and yell. Our current coach doesn't say a word during games. He sucks. I wish this season would end already so my little Becky can shine like the star I know she is. And your daughter has the biggest kick I've ever seen. This new coach will make sure she uses it by smashing the ball forward to Jenny. I'm so happy that Jenny is following us too. She is so fast, but our dumb coach plays her as an outside defender and she never gets to show her speed chasing down those big kicks."
Click to expand...
Bro, we must have crossed paths before. Nothing like the TM who thinks he's also the GM for next years moves and who knows best :)
 
foreveryoung said:
Agree, but you left out lots of other atrocious adult behavior in youth sports. Speaking badly of other kids in front of their kids, ranking kids on the team in front of their kids, making fun of other kids in front of their kids, lack of loyalty, lack of commitment - if something isn't exactly how you think it should be leave it - not referring to legitimate cases of unsafe situations of course, or individuals moving between seasons, but lots of moving for "better teams" or in the middle of a season and in strategic clusters as the OP described.

And then we complain that the youth these days are entitled, lack perseverance, and are bullies, etc. etc. .....

There are of course authentic, fun, ethical parents that we have met and have become friends with but plenty of experience with the others too.
Click to expand...
Emma said:
It happens at "strong" clubs. Lots of politics in strong clubs that can cause people to leave. Most of the problem lies with the coach and team make up. When it happened to us and my daughter cried because she was going to miss her teammates, it was tough on me to see her go through it. Eventually when the emotions went away, I took the opportunity to explain to her that friendships and bonds created on a soccer team are like friendships and bonds created in a classroom or a workplace. Once a friend is no longer working with you or placed in the same class, it then just takes more effort to stay friends with each other.
Whether your friend left because they were placed on a lower or a higher team or because the current situation wasn't working out for them (coach/club/a toxic parent/bully on team), should not define your friendship. Soccer allows you to meet many friends, some will stay for a season and come back once in a while. Some friendships will last a lifetime - depending on the effort and time you have to nourish it.

My daughter has been lucky enough to keep in contact and remain close friends with 2 of the girls that left. They play games online together, hang out at tournaments, have play dates, birthday parties, etc.

Most parents confer with their children to see what their kids want and most of the time the kids are the ones fed up with the situation first, prompting the parents to find options.

For the ones that don't, the parents are doing what they think is best for their child and it's not about hurting your child.
Click to expand...
We are definitely in the "me" generation more than ever.
 
EOTL said:
The self-pity is getting out of control. If a “friend” is bent out of shape that some teammates are seeking out better opportunities for themselves, they aren’t really a friend at all. What kind of “friend” tells his friends they need to do what I want or you can’t be my friend? If you want to be a good friend to someone, be happy for them when they go somewhere that is a better fit, don’t get whiny that you can’t control other people and make them do what is best for you, but not them. Why do you think kids on a soccer team can only be lifelong friends if they play together forever?
Click to expand...


To Expand on this... Lies were told to some of the players to cover up the group that was leaving. One kid asked the TMs kid "Are you leaving the team?" The kid asking overheard them talking but didn't hear the whole story.... The TM's kid denied he was leaving even though he had tried out the week before. Parents instructing their kids “to lie to friends” was unforgivable.

To follow up...I understand one or two kids going out for greener pastures. I do not understand when a TM "guts" the team and tells half the team to lie about it... That is unethical and reprehensible behavior. The TM has a duty to treat everyone equally... if not resign and do your planning outside the guise of team leadership.
 
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