"Pay to play is killing U.S. Soccer"

I see nothing to suggest any national movement whatsoever to ending or reducing the "pay to play" model, and/or encouraging kids to stay in soccer. There are some local efforts at the club levels to solicit funds for "scholarships" for players, but this just puts more burden on the other paying parents, and ultimately those funding sources will dry up (as paying parents eventually take off-ramps).

That said, it's unclear if the US has the national desire to fund soccer development as a priority either. We don't really fund any sports at the national level in the same way as other countries do.

But also, of course, this topic has been discussed extensively already on many other threads here, so nobody is likely to say anything new.
 
I see nothing to suggest any national movement whatsoever to ending or reducing the "pay to play" model, and/or encouraging kids to stay in soccer. There are some local efforts at the club levels to solicit funds for "scholarships" for players, but this just puts more burden on the other paying parents, and ultimately those funding sources will dry up (as paying parents eventually take off-ramps).

That said, it's unclear if the US has the national desire to fund soccer development as a priority either. We don't really fund any sports at the national level in the same way as other countries do.

But also, of course, this topic has been discussed extensively already on many other threads here, so nobody is likely to say anything new.
They offerred full rides to all the top goats in 2017, then they offerred 25% starts to the elite parents willing to pay for play time and starts.. We went from fully funded DA's to fully vaccinated in 3 years. Insane!!!
 
They offerred full rides to all the top goats in 2017, then they offerred 25% starts to the elite parents willing to pay for play time and starts.. We went from fully funded DA's to fully vaccinated in 3 years. Insane!!!
In SoCal, I have yet to see a truly talented player not getting scholarship offers. I have however seen a few not so talented getting scholarships on B teams. Pay to play is not the problem. The problem with this country is we have too many other opportunities to be successful in life. No one in their right mind is going to go all in on soccer.
 
No one in their right mind is going to go all in on soccer.
I know, only crazy dreamers go all in with a sport they love. It should be free for the dreamers with a high-level talent to go pro. No college SAT and GPA scores to worry about. Just soccer, have fun, make a few bucks and travel. Pay for play is killing the pro game is the point and poor dad can't compete in pay to play and then forced to stay travel ball. $20K is insane for middle and poor class. Youth soccer in the US has priced everyone out, except the rich and the poor kids who get full rides. Poor dad still has to cough up thousand to travel and keep an eye on his kid. $15K for poor family with kid getting full ride.
 
The pay-to-play model absolutely exists in the higher leagues. My kid had opportunities to play in both MLS Next and ECNL this season, but they still wanted the full club fee, even though he was one of the top three players on an 18-player roster. The ECNL club offered a small discount, but not enough to justify the cost.

Instead, we accepted a full-ride offer from a Flight 1 SoCal team. The officiating can be chaotic at times, but we saved $3,500, and more importantly, he’s having way more fun playing with a teammate who also made the jump down.

It’s worth noting that in ECNL and MLS Next, you’ll find plenty of Flight 2-caliber players getting roster spots simply because their parents can lock in that $3,500 early. At this point, it feels like it’s more about money than actual talent, which is exactly why we decided to skip those leagues this year.
 
The pay-to-play model absolutely exists in the higher leagues. My kid had opportunities to play in both MLS Next and ECNL this season, but they still wanted the full club fee, even though he was one of the top three players on an 18-player roster. The ECNL club offered a small discount, but not enough to justify the cost.

Instead, we accepted a full-ride offer from a Flight 1 SoCal team. The officiating can be chaotic at times, but we saved $3,500, and more importantly, he’s having way more fun playing with a teammate who also made the jump down.

It’s worth noting that in ECNL and MLS Next, you’ll find plenty of Flight 2-caliber players getting roster spots simply because their parents can lock in that $3,500 early. At this point, it feels like it’s more about money than actual talent, which is exactly why we decided to skip those leagues this year.
With so many options, the talent is fragmented between all these different leagues. Even SoCal is victim to this; I know a bottom of the table flight 2 team that moved up to flight 1 last year, ending at the bottom of the table again and now has gone up to NPL. There was no earning of that NPL spot. There used to be promotion and relegation in NPL but that seems to have gone out the window this year.
 
The pay-to-play model absolutely exists in the higher leagues. My kid had opportunities to play in both MLS Next and ECNL this season, but they still wanted the full club fee, even though he was one of the top three players on an 18-player roster. The ECNL club offered a small discount, but not enough to justify the cost.

Instead, we accepted a full-ride offer from a Flight 1 SoCal team. The officiating can be chaotic at times, but we saved $3,500, and more importantly, he’s having way more fun playing with a teammate who also made the jump down.

It’s worth noting that in ECNL and MLS Next, you’ll find plenty of Flight 2-caliber players getting roster spots simply because their parents can lock in that $3,500 early. At this point, it feels like it’s more about money than actual talent, which is exactly why we decided to skip those leagues this year.
It's what happen to me and my kid before Covid 19. We were locked out of the GDA for following the rules. Parents with bank got guaranteed 25% start with the money they paid. We found a great coach in second tier (ECNL back then) who allowed my dd the freedom to not go to showcases and tournaments outside of SoCal. It was part time soccer but free and free was very good for this dad.
 
It’s unfortunate that so many kids are left behind because of the pay-to-play model. But even within the group that can afford the fees, there are plenty of potential elite players. The bigger issue is the lack of promotion and demotion of player within clubs, along with lazy recruiting and poorly designed tryouts, which leads to unbalanced teams and leagues. As a result, top players aren’t pushed to consistently perform at their highest level. At my son’s club alone, there are at least 4–5 players on the EA and EA2 teams who are clearly stronger than some of the weaker players rostered on the MLS2 team.
 
The pay-to-play model absolutely exists in the higher leagues. My kid had opportunities to play in both MLS Next and ECNL this season, but they still wanted the full club fee, even though he was one of the top three players on an 18-player roster. The ECNL club offered a small discount, but not enough to justify the cost.

Instead, we accepted a full-ride offer from a Flight 1 SoCal team. The officiating can be chaotic at times, but we saved $3,500, and more importantly, he’s having way more fun playing with a teammate who also made the jump down.

It’s worth noting that in ECNL and MLS Next, you’ll find plenty of Flight 2-caliber players getting roster spots simply because their parents can lock in that $3,500 early. At this point, it feels like it’s more about money than actual talent, which is exactly why we decided to skip those leagues this year.
I bet you if he were the top player who scores hat tricks every game he will be offered a free ride. It’s not good enough to get a free ride if you are only a top three player. The truly exceptional players always get a free ride even in this pay to play system.
 
Folks here are thinking that getting a scholarship for a kid on a (any MLS Next or ECNL) team means a good player does not need to pay to play. The issue is not only the kid paying, but the entire system being built around dollars. That one kid playing on MLSNext/ECNL team is surrounded by kids that are average at best. The coach is motivated to get wins (vs development) and to keep the paying players on the team. The club has no incentive to let a good kid go take a chance either in the pros or international (the kid has to do it on his/her own).
Compare to MLS Academies, which is the US version of meritocracy and no-pay for play: every kid is superior for their age group. Players get better by being pushed to do better primarily by their peers (take a moment, is your kid helping the other kids get better or the other players helping your kid get better) and by superior coaching that is focused on developing a player. In a MLS Academy, the coaches get rewarded for developing players and teams by promotion towards the first team. The players are encouraged to 'play up' to the point that they can still contribute to the team (until MLS Playoffs, but I digress), and the overall club itself has a culture that demands that players get developed and move on (internally or externally) - that is how the program is recognized as superior (vs paying the bills via pay-for play). Our MLS Academy approach has resulted in some excellent players, but maybe the issue in getting to the next level is that the MLS is too far behind international professional soccer?
On the girls side, the NWSL is abysmal when it comes to youth development. US Women's soccer is on pace to land at the same level as the US Men (not good). Excellent girl players know that ECNL is mediocre - the path to become an excellent player (high level P4 NCAA or Pro) requires substantial work outside of the watered-down ECNL program in which 75% of players and teams are propped up by wealthy parents who are promoting mediocre soccer players. We're seeing excellent girls play in MLSNext, UPSL, training with NWSL at a very early age, and signing NWSL contracts at ridiculously early ages only because a pathway for their development does not exist.
So, yes, Klopp is exactly right
 
The only answer to this is making soccer in HS have 2 seasons. Club does not have anyone other faction to compete with during the 10-12 month season. HS will need to find quality coaches to make it work long term. If Football cost as much as girls soccer. Teams like Alabama, Ohio state will not exist. The return on soccer investments is not even breaking most families even.
Soccer needs to figure out how the NFL/NBA and College/HS got this seamless pipeline.
 
Folks here are thinking that getting a scholarship for a kid on a (any MLS Next or ECNL) team means a good player does not need to pay to play. The issue is not only the kid paying, but the entire system being built around dollars. That one kid playing on MLSNext/ECNL team is surrounded by kids that are average at best. The coach is motivated to get wins (vs development) and to keep the paying players on the team. The club has no incentive to let a good kid go take a chance either in the pros or international (the kid has to do it on his/her own).
Compare to MLS Academies, which is the US version of meritocracy and no-pay for play: every kid is superior for their age group. Players get better by being pushed to do better primarily by their peers (take a moment, is your kid helping the other kids get better or the other players helping your kid get better) and by superior coaching that is focused on developing a player. In a MLS Academy, the coaches get rewarded for developing players and teams by promotion towards the first team. The players are encouraged to 'play up' to the point that they can still contribute to the team (until MLS Playoffs, but I digress), and the overall club itself has a culture that demands that players get developed and move on (internally or externally) - that is how the program is recognized as superior (vs paying the bills via pay-for play). Our MLS Academy approach has resulted in some excellent players, but maybe the issue in getting to the next level is that the MLS is too far behind international professional soccer?
On the girls side, the NWSL is abysmal when it comes to youth development. US Women's soccer is on pace to land at the same level as the US Men (not good). Excellent girl players know that ECNL is mediocre - the path to become an excellent player (high level P4 NCAA or Pro) requires substantial work outside of the watered-down ECNL program in which 75% of players and teams are propped up by wealthy parents who are promoting mediocre soccer players. We're seeing excellent girls play in MLSNext, UPSL, training with NWSL at a very early age, and signing NWSL contracts at ridiculously early ages only because a pathway for their development does not exist.
So, yes, Klopp is exactly right
The issue out of the mls academies is we have no where to put them once they are done. We have mls pro but it’s a half developed league with very poor salary scales. The salaries in mls are too low for a player to skip college. By contrast in Europe there are a ton of c and d teams a player can cut their teeth on. Our academy teams have done well against other academy teams. Tfa u 12 even beat I think Manchester a few years back at mic. Where our players drop off is at u19 and above. Theres no bridge and its too difficult due to restrictive immigration and tax laws to play in Europe: unless they are eu citizens eu teams are reluctant to take any talent overseas to develop unless they are a sure thing because they have a limited number of slots to burn.
 
The only answer to this is making soccer in HS have 2 seasons. Club does not have anyone other faction to compete with during the 10-12 month season. HS will need to find quality coaches to make it work long term. If Football cost as much as girls soccer. Teams like Alabama, Ohio state will not exist. The return on soccer investments is not even breaking most families even.
Soccer needs to figure out how the NFL/NBA and College/HS got this seamless pipeline.
The answer is making HS compete in the same league as club/academy. I grew up playing in Asia and Europe, and a significant number of schools participate in the same tournaments / leagues as the academies and clubs. The player chooses where they want to train and play. There is no need to do both.
 
With so many options, the talent is fragmented between all these different leagues. Even SoCal is victim to this; I know a bottom of the table flight 2 team that moved up to flight 1 last year, ending at the bottom of the table again and now has gone up to NPL. There was no earning of that NPL spot. There used to be promotion and relegation in NPL but that seems to have gone out the window this year.
Really? I always thought you had to finish top 3 in your division to be considered. I figured they stuck with the structured promotion system... I can only imagine they’re getting battered in NPL.
 
The issue out of the mls academies is we have no where to put them once they are done. We have mls pro but it’s a half developed league with very poor salary scales. The salaries in mls are too low for a player to skip college. By contrast in Europe there are a ton of c and d teams a player can cut their teeth on. Our academy teams have done well against other academy teams. Tfa u 12 even beat I think Manchester a few years back at mic. Where our players drop off is at u19 and above. Theres no bridge and its too difficult due to restrictive immigration and tax laws to play in Europe: unless they are eu citizens eu teams are reluctant to take any talent overseas to develop unless they are a sure thing because they have a limited number of slots to burn.
How much do C and D level Euro Academy players get paid? It cant be any more or less than MLS lower level salaries. Not sure if I buy money being a decider. The pay is probably equally low.
 
How much do C and D level Euro Academy players get paid? It cant be any more or less than MLS lower level salaries. Not sure if I buy money being a decider. The pay is probably equally low.
The salaries in league 1 are mls equivalent but they are chasing the higher paydays in epl (or conversely looking for transfer to first level in other European countries or like in the mls making their way down from peak career). It’s not the money: it’s a place to play. They also don’t have the equivalent choice in Europe of going to play college (since they are off the exam track)…it’s why some come here to study and play college soccer
 

Pay to play is the symptom... not the cause...

Ask yourself why there isn't "pay to play" in Europe (hint: there is pay to play there too... it's for all the kids who couldn't get on pro youth teams)

All the fees (coaches, leagues, fields) are paid for by the PRO teams... because if they uncover a real hidden gem, they make MILLIONS of dollars on them... sometimes TENS of MILLIONS of dollars...

I really like Klopp. But this take is lazy. Either because that's what everyone's been saying and he's just parroting that and he's saying that like he's Columbus discovering America OR that's really not the issue but because he just drank the Kool-Aid because that's the take of the people paying him a salary.
 
Pay to play is the symptom... not the cause...

Ask yourself why there isn't "pay to play" in Europe (hint: there is pay to play there too... it's for all the kids who couldn't get on pro youth teams)

All the fees (coaches, leagues, fields) are paid for by the PRO teams... because if they uncover a real hidden gem, they make MILLIONS of dollars on them... sometimes TENS of MILLIONS of dollars...

I really like Klopp. But this take is lazy. Either because that's what everyone's been saying and he's just parroting that and he's saying that like he's Columbus discovering America OR that's really not the issue but because he just drank the Kool-Aid because that's the take of the people paying him a salary.
This is what I learned over the years. Pay for play parents pay a lot of money so their kids can play with the best. That's why it's killing our men's team. The top players are not challenged from elite player who grew up with elite parents. It's not the elite kids fault and it's not the elite parents' fault. It's the system of everyone wanting their kid on the A team and elite parents will pay thousands to be able to brag about it on SM. Case in point. UCLA Soccer coaches took a male and female elite player for $200K. Elite parents cannot pay a pro team to make their kid a pro. They can only pay a college coach to get in the school and not even freaking play a down.
 
Pay to play is the symptom... not the cause...

Ask yourself why there isn't "pay to play" in Europe (hint: there is pay to play there too... it's for all the kids who couldn't get on pro youth teams)
Yes and no. It’s actually organized more like ayso except tiered. There’s a Dutch series on Netflix…I think it’s called soccer parents. They get as crazy as us over wins losses (there’s pro rel). The clubs and cities tend to donate fields rather than make it a profit center but space is limited (in one episode the team keeps tripping over gopher holes on the dump of a field they are practicing). Parents are the coaches and ars but they have a better understanding of the game since they grew up in it (but the joke is they are still clueless compared to paid professionals and try to get 1 kids father who is a pro player to coach). The affiliated clubs (like the Mexican clubs with Latino league here in the states) get a place to send their scouts and id talent. There is a fee but without having to pay for coaches, ars, and fields it’s much more affordable (another joke is the parents need to work in the kitchen/bar of the club house). There’s even one scene where they get the local pig farmer to sponsor the jerseys and have to wear hogs on their shirts. The show is consistent with what my kid had a few months in Spain with his cousin: practice was in a dirt field outside some apartments with rusty broken goals and a burned out car in the field.

Ps there is a middle pay to play tier some places in Europe for players trying to get selected. My sons YouTube gk pen pal in the uk did that (he no longer plays when he was unable to get an academy slot)

Kids aren’t playing there to get a scholarship, or to be well rounded for college (your test score pretty much is all that matters), or to get on a high school team so the stakes are much much lower. No one is spending $200-300 bucks for a trainer unless they are on that middle track trying to get into an academy and that’s pretty much over by u13.
 
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