Passback -- or not???

E

espola

I already posted this to the referee forum at bigsoccer - looking for reactions here --

HS JV game, so 2-whistle system is in effect. I am working the scoreboard from the press box at top of the stands at midfield. A player on Black team attempts to pass the ball from well beyond midfield (on my right) to a teammate behind him, but fails to connect the pass. The ball bounces and rolls 60 yards or so, with a White attacker chasing behind it. As the ball passes into the penalty area (on my left), the goal keeper runs up and picks it up. Whistle from the referee on my right. Much complaining from Black team, questioning "intentional?". Referees meet down near the ball and have a discussion for about 45 seconds. After the meeting, White is awarded an IDK in the outer reaches of the PA. After the initial kick bounces off Black's wall, a White teammate kicks a screamer past the Black GK.
 
I'd have to see it to know for sure. The way you describe it, it was not an intentional pass to the GK so no idk. Refs may have thought the original pass was intentionally to the GK not to the teammate behind him. 60 yards is a very long ways to play a ball, so I'd have to see the video. Do you have one?
 
The factors for the foul in high school and FIFA are the same (NB: there is a rules difference for trickery to evade the rule). Has the keeper handled a ball is kicked deliberately by a teammate? It does not have to be a "pass" nor does it have to be "back." The defender must kick the ball - meaning, using a foot.

The primary issue for the referee is whether the defender made a miss-kick of the ball. The keeper MAY pick up the ball after a miss-kick. That decision is affected by the age/skill of the players, the field and playing conditions, presence or absence of time/space for the defender to kick the ball, and the presence or absence of opponents marking the defender. But, once the referee judges it was not a miss-kick, the keeper may not handle the ball even if the ball might have been intended by the defender to be played by another field player or the ball was kicked to a spot outside the PA where the keeper went to retrieve it.

The purpose of the rule, however, was to prevent a team from wasting time (prior the rule change, the defender could kick the ball to the keeper, who then released the ball back to the defender, who then passed the ball back to the keeper, etc.) or to prevent a defender from denying the opponents a fair opportunity to challenge for the ball. In most cases where the ball is kicked from so far away, particularly in a lesser-skilled JV game, a wise referee may decide any offense is doubtful or trifling, and allow play to continue.

YMMV.
 
Recently saw a situation where after a corner kick there was some pinball going on in the box. A defender facing the goal and just outside the six yard box took two touches, one to control and one to pass it to the keeper. The keeper picked up the ball. At the time I wondered if the ref just didn't see it, but now I think it may have been a spirit of the game type of thing since it was obviously not an attempt to waste time.
 
DWickham said:
The factors for the foul in high school and FIFA are the same (NB: there is a rules difference for trickery to evade the rule). Has the keeper handled a ball is kicked deliberately by a teammate? It does not have to be a "pass" nor does it have to be "back." The defender must kick the ball - meaning, using a foot.

The primary issue for the referee is whether the defender made a miss-kick of the ball. The keeper MAY pick up the ball after a miss-kick. That decision is affected by the age/skill of the players, the field and playing conditions, presence or absence of time/space for the defender to kick the ball, and the presence or absence of opponents marking the defender. But, once the referee judges it was not a miss-kick, the keeper may not handle the ball even if the ball might have been intended by the defender to be played by another field player or the ball was kicked to a spot outside the PA where the keeper went to retrieve it.

The purpose of the rule, however, was to prevent a team from wasting time (prior the rule change, the defender could kick the ball to the keeper, who then released the ball back to the defender, who then passed the ball back to the keeper, etc.) or to prevent a defender from denying the opponents a fair opportunity to challenge for the ball. In most cases where the ball is kicked from so far away, particularly in a lesser-skilled JV game, a wise referee may decide any offense is doubtful or trifling, and allow play to continue.

YMMV.
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It was not the passing back to the keeper that was the problem, it was repeatedly passing back to the keeper. FIFA/IFAB could have constructed this rule differently by simply banning the repetition, or by instructing referees to add time when players did it. Instead, we solved a problem that only existed in the highest levels of the game (pros and international play) and created confusion all the way down to playground rec leagues.

Worst rule change ever.
 
espola said:
It was not the passing back to the keeper that was the problem, it was repeatedly passing back to the keeper. FIFA/IFAB could have constructed this rule differently by simply banning the repetition, or by instructing referees to add time when players did it. Instead, we solved a problem that only existed in the highest levels of the game (pros and international play) and created confusion all the way down to playground rec leagues.

Worst rule change ever.
Click to expand...
Baloney.
 
outside! said:
Recently saw a situation where after a corner kick there was some pinball going on in the box. A defender facing the goal and just outside the six yard box took two touches, one to control and one to pass it to the keeper. The keeper picked up the ball. At the time I wondered if the ref just didn't see it, but now I think it may have been a spirit of the game type of thing since it was obviously not an attempt to waste time.
Click to expand...
What does the spirit of the game have to do with it? If the ball is intentionally passed to the keeper, they CANNOT pick it up. Plain and simple. Should have been a PK.
 
Do I need to clarify for you JrCeasar? Intentional pass WITH ANY PART OF THE BODY EXCEPT THE HEAD, to and picked up by the keeper, is a penalty. Disagree all you want, you'd be wrong.
 
Kicknit22 said:
Do I need to clarify for you JrCeasar? Intentional pass WITH ANY PART OF THE BODY EXCEPT THE HEAD, to and picked up by the keeper, is a penalty. Disagree all you want, you'd be wrong.
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I was taught that the kick had to come from the foot, so that if the ball is directed with any part of the body shin and up it is legal for the GK to pick it up. (Except, of course, directed by the hand and arms, but that is a different issue)
 
Kicknit22 said:
Really?!! Ive misunderstood the rule all these years? You can intentionally pass the ball back to the keeper for them to pick it up? Wow! My bad.
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No, you haven't "misunderstood" it, you have never known it.

And yes, really. You can intentionally pass the ball to the goalkeeper for them to pick it up. And no, it's not a rule; it's a law of the game.
 
Kicknit22 said:
Really?!! Ive misunderstood the rule all these years? You can intentionally pass the ball back to the keeper for them to pick it up? Wow! My bad.
Click to expand...

JaP often bypasses opportunities to educate players, coaches, referees, and fans of the game so he can make a self-righteous ass of himself - just like in this thread.
 
espola said:
JaP often bypasses opportunities to educate players, coaches, referees, and fans of the game so he can make a self-righteous ass of himself - just like in this thread.
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Players, coaches and referees know the basics of the game and do not need education on them from me or anyone.

Know-it-alls on the other hand . . .
 
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