Not a minute or penny more!

You are the one playing games...
I understand both sides of the argument.
I don't understand why, with other bakery's available, anyone would choose to insist that folks go against their religious beliefs...
I don't believe the couple was asked to leave the bakery, nor were they forbidden from buying anything in the bakery that was for sale...
From your "quote the headline" opinion piece above:
"State officials have no business deciding which religious beliefs are despicable or hypocritical."
"Phillips's claim should earn some sympathy. There are other bakers, and if you're gay you don't want Phillips to have anything to do with your wedding anyway. It ought to be possible for the contending sides of the gay rights/religious liberty controversy to reach some kind of deal. This kind of bargain is, however, beyond the institutional capacity of courts. They can't learn through negotiation what each side's most urgent interests are, and they can't draw the kind of arbitrary lines that negotiations often produce. But before we can start talking with one another, we need to stop demonizing each other. The Court's modest opinion is valuable to the extent that it reminds us to do that. "

For the vast majority of U.S. history, people and companies used religion as an excuse to refuse to serve and even employ others based on race. When you argue religious bigots should be able to use religion as an excuse to deny serving or employing someone based on sexual orientation, you’re essentially saying they should be able to use religion as an excuse to discriminate on any basis, including because they are black, a woman, or a different religion. Or, if you believe the Bible says being gay is wrong but being black is not the mark of Cain or whatever s**t it is people make up to rationalize abusing others, you are telling people what their own religion does and doesn’t say. And just as I don’t get to tell you what your religion says, you don’t get to tell Bob Jones and Ollie’s BBQ that their religion doesn’t allow them to be their particular brand of a**hole, just yours.

People should not be allowed to use religion as an excuse to discriminate against others and, thankfully, the law is very clear that they cannot. The free exercise clause lets you be to be as awful and s**tty as you want in church, your home, or even praying at work during a break. But pretending you are “exercising” religion by mistreating others operating a business that has nothing to do with religion is b.s. If you want to operate a business in the United States, the cost of entry is that you don’t get to discriminate against people. Religion does not give you some favored status that allows you to mistreat others. Just as religion cannot be used as an excuse to hang someone from a tree or drag them behind your pick-up truck because they are black or gay, you also can’t mistreat and abuse them in a different manner that is less than murder but which you consider to be acceptable.

It isn’t good enough to go to a different baker because if you let someone to be a bigot, a lot more will follow suit. If it suddenly becomes ok to refuse to sell a product to someone because they are gay, people will do it. It will become impossible to buy a wedding cake in the more bigoted parts of the U.S. And then other a**holes will decide they can use religion to do the same to people who are black, or women, or have a different understanding of what communion means.

I fully recognize it is not possible to convince religious bigots that they are wrong. They believe crazy irrational non-sense, which makes it impossible to have a rational conversation. They claim they’re forgiving of others to make themselves feel better that they actually aren’t. They think an all-powerful being created the world in less than a week and instructed people to stone gay people and many others to death right up until he changed his mind and sent his son (who is also himself) to tell everyone that they didn’t need to murder people anymore.

Every argument religious bigots make is just rationalizing bigotry. You claim an arbitrary line has been drawn when there is nothing arbitrary about it. You use the word arbitrary because you don’t want to concede that the line was actually carefully drawn by legislatures and courts over the course of more than 100 years and was put where it is for a reason, but you just happen to be on the immoral side of it. When you claim it is “beyond the institutional capacity of the courts” you are wrong, as Scotus quite easily showed earlier this week. You just don’t like how easily the courts are dealing with this because you don’t like the results. The only “institutional problem” is the fact that bigots don’t like the results.

Also, Phillips’ argument that he should be allowed to mistreat others because maybe someone else might not is neither sympathetic nor rational. You can cherry pick out of context any statement or headline you want, but it doesn’t change what everyone already knows and the law clearly provides. If you won’t sell a wedding cake to someone because of their sexual orientation, you can’t sell a wedding cake to anyone. If you won’t employ someone based because of their sexual orientation, you don’t get to employ anyone. Can’t hang someone from a tree based on their protected class, and can’t refuse to sell them a cake either. This is just about the most simple and obvious concept that a court could possibly handle.
 
Away with what... taking out a piece of trash that had worn out his welcome in society? Would he be your hero if he took out a family driving drunk on the way to Wendy's? And yeah, let's burn Wendy's down because it's THEIR fault, too, that he was a stupid drunken asshole.

I'm sure he had public safety in mind when he shot an unarmed man running away from him, whose ID he had already taken, twice in the back, plus an extra round for good measure into an innocent bystander's car. That extra round alone is three of his felony charges, not counting the special charges tied to that round because he violated his policeman oath. He got fired immediately because even his true story is a series of crimes, even for cops.
 
You are the one playing games...
I understand both sides of the argument.
I don't understand why, with other bakery's available, anyone would choose to insist that folks go against their religious beliefs...
I don't believe the couple was asked to leave the bakery, nor were they forbidden from buying anything in the bakery that was for sale...
From your "quote the headline" opinion piece above:
"State officials have no business deciding which religious beliefs are despicable or hypocritical."
"Phillips's claim should earn some sympathy. There are other bakers, and if you're gay you don't want Phillips to have anything to do with your wedding anyway. It ought to be possible for the contending sides of the gay rights/religious liberty controversy to reach some kind of deal. This kind of bargain is, however, beyond the institutional capacity of courts. They can't learn through negotiation what each side's most urgent interests are, and they can't draw the kind of arbitrary lines that negotiations often produce. But before we can start talking with one another, we need to stop demonizing each other. The Court's modest opinion is valuable to the extent that it reminds us to do that. "
You will learn, if it doesn't strike you innately, that to use a public street for your store which provides certain services and products, but you refuse those services to some people because they are having a same-sex wedding or, maybe, an interracial marriage and your religion prevents it, you have a decision to make. Either override your religious beliefs, or move your store into your own house.
We don't have Jim Crow laws any more...as much as that may pain you.
 
For the vast majority of U.S. history, people and companies used religion as an excuse to refuse to serve and even employ others based on race. When you argue religious bigots should be able to use religion as an excuse to deny serving or employing someone based on sexual orientation, you’re essentially saying they should be able to use religion as an excuse to discriminate on any basis, including because they are black, a woman, or a different religion. Or, if you believe the Bible says being gay is wrong but being black is not the mark of Cain or whatever s**t it is people make up to rationalize abusing others, you are telling people what their own religion does and doesn’t say. And just as I don’t get to tell you what your religion says, you don’t get to tell Bob Jones and Ollie’s BBQ that their religion doesn’t allow them to be their particular brand of a**hole, just yours.

People should not be allowed to use religion as an excuse to discriminate against others and, thankfully, the law is very clear that they cannot. The free exercise clause lets you be to be as awful and s**tty as you want in church, your home, or even praying at work during a break. But pretending you are “exercising” religion by mistreating others operating a business that has nothing to do with religion is b.s. If you want to operate a business in the United States, the cost of entry is that you don’t get to discriminate against people. Religion does not give you some favored status that allows you to mistreat others. Just as religion cannot be used as an excuse to hang someone from a tree or drag them behind your pick-up truck because they are black or gay, you also can’t mistreat and abuse them in a different manner that is less than murder but which you consider to be acceptable.

It isn’t good enough to go to a different baker because if you let someone to be a bigot, a lot more will follow suit. If it suddenly becomes ok to refuse to sell a product to someone because they are gay, people will do it. It will become impossible to buy a wedding cake in the more bigoted parts of the U.S. And then other a**holes will decide they can use religion to do the same to people who are black, or women, or have a different understanding of what communion means.

I fully recognize it is not possible to convince religious bigots that they are wrong. They believe crazy irrational non-sense, which makes it impossible to have a rational conversation. They claim they’re forgiving of others to make themselves feel better that they actually aren’t. They think an all-powerful being created the world in less than a week and instructed people to stone gay people and many others to death right up until he changed his mind and sent his son (who is also himself) to tell everyone that they didn’t need to murder people anymore.

Every argument religious bigots make is just rationalizing bigotry. You claim an arbitrary line has been drawn when there is nothing arbitrary about it. You use the word arbitrary because you don’t want to concede that the line was actually carefully drawn by legislatures and courts over the course of more than 100 years and was put where it is for a reason, but you just happen to be on the immoral side of it. When you claim it is “beyond the institutional capacity of the courts” you are wrong, as Scotus quite easily showed earlier this week. You just don’t like how easily the courts are dealing with this because you don’t like the results. The only “institutional problem” is the fact that bigots don’t like the results.

Also, Phillips’ argument that he should be allowed to mistreat others because maybe someone else might not is neither sympathetic nor rational. You can cherry pick out of context any statement or headline you want, but it doesn’t change what everyone already knows and the law clearly provides. If you won’t sell a wedding cake to someone because of their sexual orientation, you can’t sell a wedding cake to anyone. If you won’t employ someone based because of their sexual orientation, you don’t get to employ anyone. Can’t hang someone from a tree based on their protected class, and can’t refuse to sell them a cake either. This is just about the most simple and obvious concept that a court could possibly handle.
You are one arrogant piece of human fodder...
I'm not trying to rationalize bigotry as I was quoting your article. I have no problem with the way the court has ruled.
It was your article that claimed it is “beyond the institutional capacity of the courts”.
It was your article that used the words arbitrary, not me.
It was also your article that suggested that folks stop demonizing others
The baker didn't refuse to sell them a cake, he refused to make a "special order cake"....
You don't want to discuss this, you prefer to pontificate, categorize and judge others.
 
QUOTE="messy, post: 335545, member: 3299"
You will learn, if it doesn't strike you innately, that to use a public street for your store which provides certain services and products, but you refuse those services to some people because they are having a same-sex wedding or, maybe, an interracial marriage and your religion prevents it, you have a decision to make. Either override your religious beliefs, or move your store into your own house.
We don't have Jim Crow laws any more...as much as that may pain you.
What the F@&K does a " Jim Crow Law " have to do with
INDIVIDUAL/PERSONAL Sexual Orientation Discrimination......
Oh please paint me a link, this I gotta see.....!



/QUOTE


What a terrible argument you present above.....

A. The services they requested could have been performed ANYWHERE...( They Had a Vendetta...A monetary Vendetta it appears. )
B. Nobody in there right mind running a business refuses service to anyone over a " Personal " issue.
C. Those two women were either coached or had previous interaction with that bakery to go for the throat as they did.
D. You are looking for an argument where there is none....let it go and start your studies.....
E. I personally would just take my " Business request " elsewhere, especially with a consumable item such as a Cake....




Just to give you a little kick start .....see below " MR under educated Messy "....

" Jim Crow laws were state and local laws that enforced racial segregation
in the Southern United States.
All were enacted in the late 19th and early 20th centuries by
white Democratic-dominated state legislatures to disenfranchise
and remove political and economic gains made by blacks during the
Reconstruction period. "
 
You will learn, if it doesn't strike you innately, that to use a public street for your store which provides certain services and products, but you refuse those services to some people because they are having a same-sex wedding or, maybe, an interracial marriage and your religion prevents it, you have a decision to make. Either override your religious beliefs, or move your store into your own house.
We don't have Jim Crow laws any more...as much as that may pain you.
You might learn that the you're full of shit and a terrible judge of others.
I have no problem with what the court has ruled, you babbling about Jim Crow laws is just that, babbling.
I judge people by what they say and do....not their skin color or their sexuality...could care less.
As much as this may pain you, go fuck yourself...
 
I'm sure he had public safety in mind when he shot an unarmed man running away from him, whose ID he had already taken, twice in the back, plus an extra round for good measure into an innocent bystander's car. That extra round alone is three of his felony charges, not counting the special charges tied to that round because he violated his policeman oath. He got fired immediately because even his true story is a series of crimes, even for cops.

1. Career criminal
2. Driving drunk
3. Punched a cop that was treating him very fairly
4. Fired a taser at a cop to get away

I couldn't give a shit about him. His actions resulted in his death and society is better off without him on the streets. Period.
 
You might learn that the you're full of shit and a terrible judge of others.
I have no problem with what the court has ruled, you babbling about Jim Crow laws is just that, babbling.
I judge people by what they say and do....not their skin color or their sexuality...could care less.
As much as this may pain you, go fuck yourself...
Sorry Snowflake. Just trying to educate your dumb ass.
 
You might learn that the you're full of shit and a terrible judge of others.
I have no problem with what the court has ruled, you babbling about Jim Crow laws is just that, babbling.
I judge people by what they say and do....not their skin color or their sexuality...could care less.
As much as this may pain you, go fuck yourself...
Sorry Snowflake. Just trying to educate your dumb ass.
 
You are one arrogant piece of human fodder...
I'm not trying to rationalize bigotry as I was quoting your article. I have no problem with the way the court has ruled.
It was your article that claimed it is “beyond the institutional capacity of the courts”.
It was your article that used the words arbitrary, not me.
It was also your article that suggested that folks stop demonizing others
The baker didn't refuse to sell them a cake, he refused to make a "special order cake"....
You don't want to discuss this, you prefer to pontificate, categorize and judge others.

So now you read beyond the headline? If you think it’s not ok to judge others, your beef is with bigoty bakers, not me.

I obviously do not agree with the article’s alleged proposition that’s beyond the institutional capacity of the courts to deal with a very simple analysis of statutory construction in order to validate the very simple concept that bigotry is illegal. Neither do the courts and state and federal legislatures for that matter. The only people who make that claim are those who neither like nor respect the laws of the United States and their own state.

You are also wrong that the baker refused to sell the gay couple a “specialized” wedding cake. They asked for a basic wedding cake that would look and taste exactly like one he would sell them if they weren’t gay.

Call me whatever you want, I’ve heard much worse back when I and others spent many years being very nice and polite in opposition to bigotry. Nice and polite has not worked to our own satisfaction, so now we sue the f(lour) out of these bigots until we drive them out of business and ruin their lives, and call them out and mock them for sport. You should be happy we aren’t burning crosses on their lawns or hanging them from trees. Shoot, we’re not even refusing to sell them flowers or cakes for their weddings. We’re just expecting to be treated equally, the same way we treat them in business as good Americans. And when they don’t, they get what they deserve.

Rationalize however you want that you aren’t a bigot. We (meaning both me and the United States Supreme Court) know the truth. Complain all you want, but it doesn’t change that the law of the land is that homophobes may not sell wedding cakes to anyone if they won’t sell them to a gay person. Ha. Ha. Ha.

One more point, just for fun. Bigots claim gay people can always go somewhere else if a bigot won’t sell them a cake, so problem solved. Using that same logic, a bigot baker can also go somewhere else if they don’t like the law. Problem solved.
 
You might learn that the you're full of shit and a terrible judge of others.
I have no problem with what the court has ruled, you babbling about Jim Crow laws is just that, babbling.
I judge people by what they say and do....not their skin color or their sexuality...could care less.
As much as this may pain you, go fuck yourself...

What EOTL said to you is So True!

"Rationalize however you want that you aren’t a bigot. We (meaning both me and the United States Supreme Court) know the truth. Complain all you want, but it doesn’t change that the law of the land is that homophobes may not sell wedding cakes to anyone if they won’t sell them to a gay person. Ha. Ha. Ha.

One more point, just for fun. Bigots claim gay people can always go somewhere else if a bigot won’t sell them a cake, so problem solved. Using that same logic, a bigot baker can also go somewhere else if they don’t like the law. Problem solved."
 
1. Career criminal
2. Driving drunk
3. Punched a cop that was treating him very fairly
4. Fired a taser at a cop to get away

I couldn't give a shit about him. His actions resulted in his death and society is better off without him on the streets. Period.

Atlanta has a VERY BAD CASE OF " BLUE FLU " right now......and it's most likely going to get
worse until the Mayor and Local " Officials " pull their collective heads out !!!!
 
So now you read beyond the headline? If you think it’s not ok to judge others, your beef is with bigoty bakers, not me.

I obviously do not agree with the article’s alleged proposition that’s beyond the institutional capacity of the courts to deal with a very simple analysis of statutory construction in order to validate the very simple concept that bigotry is illegal. Neither do the courts and state and federal legislatures for that matter. The only people who make that claim are those who neither like nor respect the laws of the United States and their own state.

You are also wrong that the baker refused to sell the gay couple a “specialized” wedding cake. They asked for a basic wedding cake that would look and taste exactly like one he would sell them if they weren’t gay.

Call me whatever you want, I’ve heard much worse back when I and others spent many years being very nice and polite in opposition to bigotry. Nice and polite has not worked to our own satisfaction, so now we sue the f(lour) out of these bigots until we drive them out of business and ruin their lives, and call them out and mock them for sport. You should be happy we aren’t burning crosses on their lawns or hanging them from trees. Shoot, we’re not even refusing to sell them flowers or cakes for their weddings. We’re just expecting to be treated equally, the same way we treat them in business as good Americans. And when they don’t, they get what they deserve.

Rationalize however you want that you aren’t a bigot. We (meaning both me and the United States Supreme Court) know the truth. Complain all you want, but it doesn’t change that the law of the land is that homophobes may not sell wedding cakes to anyone if they won’t sell them to a gay person. Ha. Ha. Ha.

One more point, just for fun. Bigots claim gay people can always go somewhere else if a bigot won’t sell them a cake, so problem solved. Using that same logic, a bigot baker can also go somewhere else if they don’t like the law. Problem solved.


Hey answer this.....

Did someone " Turn " you down.....?

A. YES

B. NO
 
1. Career criminal
2. Driving drunk
3. Punched a cop that was treating him very fairly
4. Fired a taser at a cop to get away

I couldn't give a shit about him. His actions resulted in his death and society is better off without him on the streets. Period.

I'm in favor of public elections, but only after a judge and jury have had their say, and only for a pre-defined list of crimes. Running away from a pissed-off cop isn't one of those crimes.
 
I'm in favor of public elections, but only after a judge and jury have had their say, and only for a pre-defined list of crimes. Running away from a pissed-off cop isn't one of those crimes.
Elections?
You sure that's the word you were searching for?
 
So now you read beyond the headline? If you think it’s not ok to judge others, your beef is with bigoty bakers, not me.

I obviously do not agree with the article’s alleged proposition that’s beyond the institutional capacity of the courts to deal with a very simple analysis of statutory construction in order to validate the very simple concept that bigotry is illegal. Neither do the courts and state and federal legislatures for that matter. The only people who make that claim are those who neither like nor respect the laws of the United States and their own state.

You are also wrong that the baker refused to sell the gay couple a “specialized” wedding cake. They asked for a basic wedding cake that would look and taste exactly like one he would sell them if they weren’t gay.

Call me whatever you want, I’ve heard much worse back when I and others spent many years being very nice and polite in opposition to bigotry. Nice and polite has not worked to our own satisfaction, so now we sue the f(lour) out of these bigots until we drive them out of business and ruin their lives, and call them out and mock them for sport. You should be happy we aren’t burning crosses on their lawns or hanging them from trees. Shoot, we’re not even refusing to sell them flowers or cakes for their weddings. We’re just expecting to be treated equally, the same way we treat them in business as good Americans. And when they don’t, they get what they deserve.

Rationalize however you want that you aren’t a bigot. We (meaning both me and the United States Supreme Court) know the truth. Complain all you want, but it doesn’t change that the law of the land is that homophobes may not sell wedding cakes to anyone if they won’t sell them to a gay person. Ha. Ha. Ha.

One more point, just for fun. Bigots claim gay people can always go somewhere else if a bigot won’t sell them a cake, so problem solved. Using that same logic, a bigot baker can also go somewhere else if they don’t like the law. Problem solved.
Your lack of civility and inability to carry on a conversation is telling...
I certainly don't need a lecture from you poodle dick. Problem solved.
 
What EOTL said to you is So True!

"Rationalize however you want that you aren’t a bigot. We (meaning both me and the United States Supreme Court) know the truth. Complain all you want, but it doesn’t change that the law of the land is that homophobes may not sell wedding cakes to anyone if they won’t sell them to a gay person. Ha. Ha. Ha.

One more point, just for fun. Bigots claim gay people can always go somewhere else if a bigot won’t sell them a cake, so problem solved. Using that same logic, a bigot baker can also go somewhere else if they don’t like the law. Problem solved."


I'm as much a bigot as you are a child molester.
Chester the Molester should be your handle....hahahaha....
 
I'm in favor of public elections, but only after a judge and jury have had their say, and only for a pre-defined list of crimes. Running away from a pissed-off cop isn't one of those crimes.

Cop was pissed off because the hood rat was treated well and the "content of his character" still shown through. Like the rest of them, his actions dictated the outcome. He doesn't give a shit about anyone else's life. Why should anyone care about his?
 
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