My pet peeve...coaches that teach that you have to shoot with your instep. How many shots do we see well within the box that are sprayed wide because the kid powered it with their instep instead of simply "passing" into the goal with the side of their foot.
MLS youth league
- Thread starter Zvezdas
- Start date
This is exactly right. They talked the talk. (I even spoke with one of the leaders, who seemed very in tune with these issues without me even raising them.) But, when it came to player selections for Poland, even positioning/playing time at the camps, it was clear they weren't walking the walk and were just reverting to the physical eye test. One coach even gave my son feedback that his biggest weakness is beating players 1v1. My son has weaknesses as a player, no doubt, but this feedback was laughable and showed me that he favors someone who can run past others with pure speed as opposed to players who can dribble and keep p
Couldn't agree more.I agree there is no shortgage of great atheletes playing in the US. We have more youth playing soccer than any other nation, the only other nation remotely close is Germany I believe. I'm going to divert a little bit from your opinion, but yes we focus too much on size and raw athleticism. I also believe coaches in the US favors the 1v1 player and creative dribbler too much, at the expense of other skills. What US coaches don't seem to understand is that the ball can travel much faster than one can run and that one can dribble. Soccer is primarily a decision making sport (aka Soccer IQ) and speed of play is critical. We're very poor at decision making, particularly at speed. Its a tremendous skill to be a creative dribbler but it has to be combined with Soccer IQ other wise you're just slowing down the game. It seems we make our decisions after we receive the ball and were not proactive, ie we lack field vison and awareness, or the technicall term is "scanning".
'Football vision' as important as ball skills, experts reveal
Learning to read the game is as important to young footballers as kicking a ball. A new study, which highlighted Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard as stars who incorporated the technique into their gameplay, calls on coaches to spend more time training young players to scan the field and less on...www.sciencedaily.com
I also believe we've distorted what it means to be a great 1v1 player. Its now been boiled down to someone that can beat someone on the dribble...actually its evolved into someone that can sometimes win a 1v2, 1v3, 1v4. In my mind, a 1v1 player is one that can defend the dribble, win 50/50 or less balls, can out position or outsmart their opponent to receive the ball, etc. These "new age" 1v1 players that take on two or more players are not only slowing the game down but they are also not taking advantage of their teams numerical advantage that has been created. That's something else I don't see very often is coaches teaching the importance of gaining a numerical advantage where play is occuring. Coaching of movement off the ball is improving but we still have a lot of room to improve.
I guess my conclusion is that coaches don't seem to favor Soccer IQ, whereas I don't think Soccer IQ can be overrated. Maybe coaches think they can teach Soccer IQ to the physically dominant players...I just havent seen much of that occuring.
By the way, it is amazing how WRONG some coaches and scouts get "soccer IQ". I have seen scouts/rankings praise highly ranked players for tremendous soccer IQ, when the players who play with those players will tell you that they have a hard time playing with those players because they never make the pass on time, telegraph what they are going to do, put the receiving player in a tough spot with the pass, etc. Is that high "soccer IQ"? Some of these same players are known for receiving the ball and then taking a few dribbles to figure out what they are going to do with the ball. That is not going to be unlearned at the high school ages. Yet, those players get promoted upward ….
Kante
PREMIER
Was thinking of CSL re: pro/rel but am taking that at face value.
(so for example, you're saying that DTLA South Bay who finished 1st in Gold South in Fall 2019 is not a lock on getting promoted up to prem? Don't have experience here so honestly don't know).
The word am getting from a couple of different DA clubs is that former u13 and u14-only DA clubs will stay u13 and u14. It's possible to apply for more but ... (same as before essentially).
System benefits the MLS clubs, which is fine since it's an MLS league (and better than when US Soccer did same but represented something else...) but non-MLS clubs shouldn't represent any different to families...
No one wants to hear this but you have to be willing to lose games, at least at first, to teach soccer IQ. It takes patience and time and I don't think the coaches feel that they have that luxury as the parents put so much value in winning games. I see our coach really trying to teach soccer IQ and really getting the kids to understand decision making in the game but the parents don't get it, they don't like losing and they question every decision the coach makes and coach their kid to do something different than what the coach is telling them to do. We need parents to either really learn the game of soccer or give the sport back to their kids and let them play and be coached and not be so controlling over their kids sport experience.
texanincali
SILVER ELITE
There is no doubt that it plays a role in selection. I think its a little unfair to say it played a role for everyone. In that age group there are 2 kids (Jenkins and Jacobs) I think are viewed as good players now, but I don't see them doing much, if anything as a professional. Some other bigger(ish) kids but they are also phenomenal soccer players. Hernandez, Norris and Ramirez with FC Dallas are very small and in that team, as was one of the other midfielders.
When YNT are put together, especially for a tournament, they are done so to win. Your son is obviously talented to be in these camps, so I would keep encouraging him to find solutions against these bigger faster kids, especially as a U16. If he is going to grow, it will come and his talent will show. Sometimes its just a waiting game and sometimes its unfair who grows early. I don't think the solution is playing his own age if he is of this talent level.
The coaches are under a lot of pressure to win internationally for this age group as well all the other YNT age groups. It is tough for coaches to get away from the big physical players, especially if these bigger players were the ones doing well at the camps during the scrimmages.
What I have noticed though some of the physically imposing players that stood out at the U14 camps did not have strong U15 seasons. So in one year, their physical superiority was already less a factor as other players may have closed the gap physically.
To be clear, my statement didn't apply to all players. My concern goes way beyond who is selected to go on a trip, because if showing well is a factor (which it always is), then constructing a competitive team usually involves choosing some kids with size.
My concern revolves around certain players who are being propped up at the top - discussed as part of the great youth movement of U.S. youth soccer - who display some of the (in my view fatal) shortcomings that I described in my prior post.
One of the challenges with soccer is that player evaluation is far more subjective than sports like basketball and baseball. Soccer is more dependent on scouts and coaches to identify the best players because of this. When some of the coaches who are responsible for these decisions can't even form a coherent thought in a conversation, it makes it harder to find room for optimism ….
Premier is by application only, while first in Silver Elite is automatically promoted to Gold under CSL rules, but I was thinking more about relegation and promotion in the discretionary zone (not first or last, but second or third to each), which can be affected by club influence.
I've heard differently about MLS age groups, but it's possible that what you're hearing just means former DA clubs will promote their existing age group teams and not field totally new teams at the higher age groups that weren't DA previously. So, a team like Chula Vista that was only U13 last year in DA, might be U13 and U14 in the MLS league this year, but they're not going to scramble and enter teams in the U15 age group until next year when the U14 team moves up.
It's also possible that the tier system starts in U15, so Chula Vista might field a U15 team this year, but it will be in the "Elite teams" tier and not the MLS teams tier (although it sounds like crossover play between MLS and Elite teams will happen), while its U13 and U14 teams would be in the same division as the MLS teams because they don't have a tier system yet.
In any either case, there's no question the MLS league will prioritize players they care about, which doesn't necessarily mean all the current players on a MLS academy team. If a club enters teams in this league, they have to know the MLS teams will scout and try to cherry pick the other teams' players and the clubs have to accept that since that's part of the league's attraction for the players. Might even be some kind of "discovery list" since MLS teams were supposedly ending territorial restrictions.
Kante
PREMIER
Got it. Makes sense. There's several clubs that had u14 last year, got shot down by USSDA on their u15 application this Spring and now will only be fielding u13 and u14 again w/ the MLS league, despite having a graduating u14 team who could be available for u15.
Am sure MLS league is whispering sweet nothings/club DA directors are hearing what they want to hear about the "opportunity" to add age groups later on.... Alas, am cynical about this piece.
In other news, MLS just announced a partnership w/ USYS which sounds promising. Lots of deets tbd (and will withhold opinion until deets follow) but makes a lot of senseon surface.Your thoughts and/or any additional insights? (also, jpeter, any thoughts or insights?)
For example, how does this announcement affect ODP and/or is this ODP but w/ MLS help?
Here's link to announcement: https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020...ership-offer-new-identification-opportunities.
MLS and USYS Announce Strategic Partnership to Offer New Identification Opportunities for Domestic Players
May 15, 20209:41AM EDT
MLS and USYS Announce Strategic Partnership to Offer New Identification Opportunities for Domestic Players
MLS partners with largest youth soccer organization in the country to create inclusive and accessible pathway to the professional game
MLS & USYS to collaborate on professional development, coaching education and talent identification resources for members of the USYS soccer community
NEW YORK (May 15, 2020) – Major League Soccer today announced a groundbreaking partnership with the United States Youth Soccer Association (USYS), the largest youth sport organization in the country, to collaborate on initiatives that support and engage individual soccer players, as well as soccer communities, throughout the United States.
The collaboration will support enhancements in player identification and monitoring, coaching and scouting education, competition and fan engagement throughout the USYS community that includes more than 3 million boys and girls soccer players across 55 member State Associations. In addition, the partnership will create a clear pathway for boys and girls to be seen and scouted, regardless of location or financial resources.
“We are very proud that USYS and its 55 member States Associations have decided to make MLS their league of choice,” said Gordon Bengtson, Senior Director of Player Development. “The State Associations are crucial partners in creating more meaningful connections to the professional levels while supporting the overall growth of the game. This is particularly important in communities that have not historically had access to elite development environments or professional pathways. This is a first step towards our goal of making the size and diversity of our country, our biggest strength.”
- CLICK HERE for photos, logos and graphics around the partnership.
MLS today announced, in partnership with USYS, a new regional competition platform to provide talented young boys and girls players with the ability to participate in regional competitions in front of professional club scouts. This strategic partnership will help build on the foundation provided by MLS’ announcement of the new elite youth development platform.
By empowering the technical leaders at the local and state levels, players who excel in high school programs, on club teams, or in local soccer leagues throughout the country will be recommended for the regional competition platform.
MLS will collaborate with the technical leadership of all 55 State Associations as well as the USYS National Office to develop best practices in talent identification in each region. As part of the commitment to enable access and remove barriers for talented players to reach their highest potential, MLS will absorb all expenses for players attending and participating in the regional competitions in select age levels. Eliminating financial barriers for young players throughout the country is critical to ensure talented players can be seen and scouted during their formative years.
“This is not a short-term vision, but rather one in which we realize the opportunity to truly connect the whole system of soccer in our country. For too long the professional and youth systems have been working relatively independent of each other and with this MLS partnership, we start down the path of true collaboration. This will not only expand resources to grow the game at the grassroots level, but also reveal to players and families that there is a clear pathway to any level of soccer they want to achieve,” said US Youth Soccer CEO Skip Gilbert.
“Our goal is to ensure that every player throughout the country has the ability to reach his or her highest potential,” said Fred Lipka, Technical Director of Player Development. “There are so many young soccer players in this country that do not have the ability to access elite travel soccer programs that offer greater opportunities for talent identification. We want to ensure that every player has a clear pathway to achieve their dream of playing at the collegiate or professional level, regardless of location or financial resources.”
Additionally, as part of the broader partnership, MLS and USYS are committed to creating educational and development opportunities for USYS parents, coaches and volunteers.
“It is vital that we continue to eliminate barriers for promising players,” said Alecko Eskandarian, former MLS player and current Director of Player Relations and Competition. “Every player deserves the opportunity to showcase his or her hard work and individual talent in front of top scouts, regardless of club affiliation or location.”
Yes that was behind the earlier USYS / MLS inclusion announcements, now w/ some of details are being out worked out the national league for MLS-EYDP with have regional tournaments brackets where the regular USYS club teams can also play. One stop scouting and I'm sure college will turn out also.
Non-MLS clubs can optionally enter teams in other age groups they may have not had in DA if certain conditions are meet, still working out the details but its not a closed/shut type of deal like da was every year.
any word/thought about how the tiered structure, if at all, would be at U17?
jpeter
PREMIER
Still not decided or the amount of games but they are aiming for more games than what da used to be.
I will take a simple basic assumption if a fall league happens: MLS teams will match up with other MLS or liked teams more often vs the Non-MLS ones depending on participation. Teams like TFA, Albion, City, Nomands play each MLS club once for example while LAFC & Galaxy play each other 2-3x per seasonal split.
If fall league doesn't go due to economics, C19, or other factors there will be scrimmages, mini tournaments, and some kinds of games or showcases.
Or, perhaps league games in the fall will be confined to games vs. other teams within driving distance, with a plan for more travel next spring?
Kante
PREMIER
First, this kind of insight is unique, so please subscribe today to SoccerAmerica (again, not at all affiliated w/ SA, just an admirer of their excellent work)
Here's some significant details on the MLS/USYS partnership:
MLS and U.S. Youth Soccer unveil massive U.S. player identification project
MLS and U.S. Youth Soccer have announced plans to launch one of the ambitious player development projects ever undertaken in the United States.
While the exact details are being worked out, and the COVID-19 pandemic adds a layer of uncertainty about just what the program will entail and when it will take place, there are two key elements to the plan:
1. Boys and girls will be invited to regional camps and then have a chance to go to a national event. They will selected by a network of scouts MLS sets up with USYS and its state associations.
2. All the costs -- transportation and room and board -- at both the regional and national events will be paid for by MLS.
"This is a large undertaking," Gordon Bengtson, MLS's senior director of player development, said in an interview with Soccer America. "but one that we feel is an absolutely necessary. The diversity and size of our country has historically been viewed as our biggest weakness. This makes sense to us that this should be our greatest asset and we have to do what we can do to make it our greatest strength."
What is the size and scope of the program?
With the proviso the details still need to worked out and the pandemic and its economic fall-out might dictate changes in the scope of the program, Bengtson outlined some of the general thinking about the program on the boys' side. (MLS and USYS will be talking with the NWSL and college coaches about the best approach in terms of age groups and location of events on the girls' side).
1. Players in the program can come from anywhere. This is not simply a USYS program, like ODP. Players could play for affiliated or unaffiliated teams, play in adult or youth leagues, play for USYS, U.S. Club Soccer, USSSA, AYSO, SAY or any other youth organization, or they could play for only their high school.
-- The success of the program will depend on the ability of MLS to develop and manage a scouting program that finds players in places where they were overlooked before and indeed identifies the best players.
2. The age groups will be U-14s and U-16s. The reason for that is that the national event will be held in conjunction with the Generation adidas Cup for U-15 and U-17 MLS and foreign teams that is held in spring at the FC Dallas complex in Frisco, Texas. This creates an aspirational aspect to the program, giving players the incentive that they could move on next year and play for an MLS academy team at the GA Cup.
-- Rosters for the national event will be in the range of 18-25 players, and the organization of the event will have to flexible to give everyone an opportunity to be seen.
3. The four regional camps will each include about 250 players. That's on the order of a thousand players whose costs will be paid for.
This contrasts with the ODP program, a pay-to-play program. Depending on the state association, state ODP fees, regional ODP camp fees and transportation costs can exceed $2,000.
"The ODP program has been adrift for probably the last 10-15 years," said Bengtson. "It used to be the channel for the youth national teams. That changed since the DA came in and they really only scouted in that environment."
Bengtson said the new program will give USYS's youth initiatives "a fresh coat of paint" and a new aligned vision on player development and how to grow the game.
"Most important," he said, "it will afford every player the opportunity, no matter where they are, to have a very clear pathway and remove as many barriers as possible."
Here's some significant details on the MLS/USYS partnership:
MLS and U.S. Youth Soccer unveil massive U.S. player identification project
- by Paul Kennedy @pkedit, 7 hours ago
MLS and U.S. Youth Soccer have announced plans to launch one of the ambitious player development projects ever undertaken in the United States.
While the exact details are being worked out, and the COVID-19 pandemic adds a layer of uncertainty about just what the program will entail and when it will take place, there are two key elements to the plan:
1. Boys and girls will be invited to regional camps and then have a chance to go to a national event. They will selected by a network of scouts MLS sets up with USYS and its state associations.
2. All the costs -- transportation and room and board -- at both the regional and national events will be paid for by MLS.
"This is a large undertaking," Gordon Bengtson, MLS's senior director of player development, said in an interview with Soccer America. "but one that we feel is an absolutely necessary. The diversity and size of our country has historically been viewed as our biggest weakness. This makes sense to us that this should be our greatest asset and we have to do what we can do to make it our greatest strength."
What is the size and scope of the program?
With the proviso the details still need to worked out and the pandemic and its economic fall-out might dictate changes in the scope of the program, Bengtson outlined some of the general thinking about the program on the boys' side. (MLS and USYS will be talking with the NWSL and college coaches about the best approach in terms of age groups and location of events on the girls' side).
1. Players in the program can come from anywhere. This is not simply a USYS program, like ODP. Players could play for affiliated or unaffiliated teams, play in adult or youth leagues, play for USYS, U.S. Club Soccer, USSSA, AYSO, SAY or any other youth organization, or they could play for only their high school.
-- The success of the program will depend on the ability of MLS to develop and manage a scouting program that finds players in places where they were overlooked before and indeed identifies the best players.
2. The age groups will be U-14s and U-16s. The reason for that is that the national event will be held in conjunction with the Generation adidas Cup for U-15 and U-17 MLS and foreign teams that is held in spring at the FC Dallas complex in Frisco, Texas. This creates an aspirational aspect to the program, giving players the incentive that they could move on next year and play for an MLS academy team at the GA Cup.
-- Rosters for the national event will be in the range of 18-25 players, and the organization of the event will have to flexible to give everyone an opportunity to be seen.
3. The four regional camps will each include about 250 players. That's on the order of a thousand players whose costs will be paid for.
This contrasts with the ODP program, a pay-to-play program. Depending on the state association, state ODP fees, regional ODP camp fees and transportation costs can exceed $2,000.
"The ODP program has been adrift for probably the last 10-15 years," said Bengtson. "It used to be the channel for the youth national teams. That changed since the DA came in and they really only scouted in that environment."
Bengtson said the new program will give USYS's youth initiatives "a fresh coat of paint" and a new aligned vision on player development and how to grow the game.
"Most important," he said, "it will afford every player the opportunity, no matter where they are, to have a very clear pathway and remove as many barriers as possible."
GoolRonaldo7
BRONZE
I have been hearing from parents from various clubs that the clubs will know what age groups they will have and be part of with this new MLS Elite league next week. Has anyone else heard something similar, or is it all speculations/rumors.
texanincali
SILVER ELITE
Can anyone confirm that this new MLS Youth League will begin in January 2021 and not in the fall of 2020? It is a little discomforting that clubs are wanting commitments from players without sharing any information on what the league will look like.
jpeter
PREMIER
Have not heard about fall or January yet. Some earlier talk about spring 2021 being the first tournaments but nothing specific lately.
MLS owners have said they will lose somewhere around $1b this year even with a Florida tournament like what the NBA is moving forward with.
Without the teams back in thier home stadiums playing I would say youth teams are a long shot to get going in a league before they do. Between the economics, restrictions, and aim to align with the first-team this youth league is likely to follow what they do. In others words when you can attend a LAFC or Galaxy home game the youth league should be going at the same time.
Fall may end up just being training, scrimmages on a smaller scale than what a league would normally be
A January start wouldn't surprise me. In defense of the clubs I don't think they really know what's going on either. Our club has not asked for any prepayments for next season, nor would I be comfortable making such payments. However, I know of other clubs that have been requiring payment for next season for a number of weeks.
jpeter
PREMIER
Started small group training today.
They decided no home games just a tournament:
That plan is not finalized yet, but is expected to take the form of a tournament in Orlando
MLS return: Commissioner Don Garber optimistic about potential tournament, remainder of 2020 | MLSSoccer.com
MLS return: Commissioner optimistic about potential tournament and beyond
www.mlssoccer.com