MLS youth league

[watfly]

I'm good with tournament travel and even league travel within SoCal. Out of state league travel on top of tournament travel is over the top. Our family also likes to travel for non sports reasons and time is a limited resource.

The problem is, there aren't too many options if you have a competitive kid that likes high level training and play. But we may end up opting out anyway.

The split between ECNL and MLS on the boys side is obviously not helpful. I think for some clubs that went to ECNL it was a question of which league would they have more influence and some may have just jumped the gun due to warranted skepticism re: the MLS league. Both leagues have their pluses and minus.

Best of luck, after 2 years of DA that we're taking things a lot less seriously while still competing at the highest level. Maybe not a good long term strategy, but it is working and my son seems more engaged.

 

[3leches]

No U16 or U 19 for Galaxy, if I'm reading correctly. Wonder what is the plan for the 2005s. Maybe they will play them up since they cut so many 04's and the 06's will play up with the 05's.

 

[SFR]

Are we really all okay with these organizations creating all these separate leagues completely for their own benefit that requires out of state league play when there is plenty of competition in our own areas? Are we really okay with subbing rules that don't foster development? No re-entry? The coaches aren't capable of managing their own subbing?

None of these leagues/rules are about the kids. Apparently I need to stop expecting youth organizations to serve the youth.

I am not sure I can agree with you on "rules are NOT about the kids." In general, if you bring new rules that you think it's beneficial for kids then you always find folks who would say opposite, because it's just matter of the opinion. For example, a few years ago, Nor-Cal introduced an additional line for U9-10 age that would allow team to do goal kick without extra pressure from opposing team. Lot's of coaches didn't like it and were saying it's not helping but producing opposite results. Same thing for subbing rule. I could come up with arguments for No re-entry. For one, Re-entry with unlimited subbing (I suppose) will slow the game and coaches will be using it for purposely delaying game as they used do it before. How is that for youth development. The 2nd argument against would be if coach can put starting player back on the field it will reduce the playing time for those players who usually don't see a lot of minutes to start from. Again, it's just the matter of opinion what is good and what is not.

 

[Dargle]

No U16 or U 19 for Galaxy, if I'm reading correctly. Wonder what is the plan for the 2005s. Maybe they will play them up since they cut so many 04's and the 06's will play up with the 05's.

There never was a U16 age group in DA. Theory was that it was a moment to winnow down the players (after most have gone through their major growth spurts) and only keep the ones strong enough to play a year up or at least compete in practice for a year to be ready for the U17 team. MLS only requires its teams offer U15 and U17 age groups, so the addition of a U16 age group is really an accommodation by the league for the clubs that want it.

 

[SFR]

There never was a U16 age group in DA. Theory was that it was a moment to winnow down the players (after most have gone through their major growth spurts) and only keep the ones strong enough to play a year up or at least compete in practice for a year to be ready for the U17 team. MLS only requires its teams offer U15 and U17 age groups, so the addition of a U16 age group is really an accommodation by the league for the clubs that want it.

From practical point of view it makes sense. If I run the academy I'd only concern about end up with the best of the best players and I would start filtering out players after U-15 age.
If I am a parent of 15 years old player who is not going to make U17 next year I would definitely argue for U16 and U19 academy teams.
( disclosure: my son is not on MLS academy team)

 

[lafalafa]

Would assume LAFC and LAG - across age groups - have plans for lots of games outside MLS Next, yes?

In prior years yes, going forward not sure.

LAFC would scrimmage or friendly teams regularly but only travel to the majors. Galaxy a bunch of friendlies with large travel budget, international comps. With the budget squeezes MLS travel $ likely reduced for youth not to mention the medical risks.

Hopefully they brackets are somewhat figurehead vs strick league only match ups. Cross play the other bracket: SW (2x per for 8 games) v SoCal for example 1x per (8 games). 16 game 1st part of the schedule

 

[espola]

I am not sure I can agree with you on "rules are NOT about the kids." In general, if you bring new rules that you think it's beneficial for kids then you always find folks who would say opposite, because it's just matter of the opinion. For example, a few years ago, Nor-Cal introduced an additional line for U9-10 age that would allow team to do goal kick without extra pressure from opposing team. Lot's of coaches didn't like it and were saying it's not helping but producing opposite results. Same thing for subbing rule. I could come up with arguments for No re-entry. For one, Re-entry with unlimited subbing (I suppose) will slow the game and coaches will be using it for purposely delaying game as they used do it before. How is that for youth development. The 2nd argument against would be if coach can put starting player back on the field it will reduce the playing time for those players who usually don't see a lot of minutes to start from. Again, it's just the matter of opinion what is good and what is not.

You have cited examples of bad coaching in rebuttal to a suggestion to change the rules to allow for good coaching.

 

[SFR]

You have cited examples of bad coaching in rebuttal to a suggestion to change the rules to allow for good coaching.

Not necessarily, I was trying to say that there is always presence of differences in opinions. I am pretty sure that who ever was running former DA or any current league came out with procedures and rules for the benefit of kids development. In your opinion some specific rules are not beneficial but in someone else opinion is. That's all I wanted to say. The examples I came up with might not be the best but I can come up with more like those to argue for not allow re-entry.
I am curios why do you think re-entry is beneficial in youth?

 

[espola]

Not necessarily, I was trying to say that there is always presence of differences in opinions. I am pretty sure that who ever was running former DA or any current league came out with procedures and rules for the benefit of kids development. In your opinion some specific rules are not beneficial but in someone else opinion is. That's all I wanted to say. The examples I came up with might not be the best but I can come up with more like those to argue for not allow re-entry.
I am curios why do you think re-entry is beneficial in youth?

Sometimes a player just needs a breather, a treatment for a minor injury or a short discussion with a coach to help with decision making. Youth players are not just mini-pros, and hey should not be treated as such. Even NCAA rules, which are midway between "youth" and FIFA, allow for reasonable re-entry.

 

[SFR]

Sometimes a player just needs a breather, a treatment for a minor injury or a short discussion with a coach to help with decision making. Youth players are not just mini-pros, and hey should not be treated as such. Even NCAA rules, which are midway between "youth" and FIFA, allow for reasonable re-entry.

With all due respect what about that player who will be used as temp sub, in and out. What about that player development?

 

[dad4]

With all due respect what about that player who will be used as temp sub, in and out. What about that player development?

I would assume the same as ought to happen in younger games. You leave the temp sub in for a while, and sometimes it costs you the game

We are talking HS kids here, not EPL. Dont ask them to come if you dont want them in the game.

 

[MacDre]

I would assume the same as ought to happen in younger games. You leave the temp sub in for a while, and sometimes it costs you the game

We are talking HS kids here, not EPL. Dont ask them to come if you dont want them in the game.

Unfortunately in academies the vast majority of kids are only “training cones” to help develop the 3-5 elite players in each age group. I don’t think academies give much thought to how the average kid/training cone develops or feels. Some of the elite players may start getting pro minutes and contracts as early as 15 though.

 

[SFR]

I would assume the same as ought to happen in younger games. You leave the temp sub in for a while, and sometimes it costs you the game

We are talking HS kids here, not EPL. Dont ask them to come if you dont want them in the game.

I get that we are talking about HS age players. And I get that on the team there is a core and players whose roles are subs. But It looks to me that the original post was complaining about rules that are not beneficial to youth development. And I have a feeling that that concern about development was towards only those core/elite players.
I know it's useless argue about rule that league is established but again I am OK with no re-entry as if an elite player is out of breath then sub him and make sure that athlete start working harder on his agility. Or if there is a minor injury that requires to take player from the field then sub him and don't let by any chance to make it worse by putting player back on the field. Or, if you are not happy with player's decisions then sub him and talk after the game (preferably next day). Yes, you might not get the win if you sub one of your key players but it's the development after all that's important and not the a single game result. Again, I am not a coach and it's my opinion.

 

[espola]

I get that we are talking about HS age players. And I get that on the team there is a core and players whose roles are subs. But It looks to me that the original post was complaining about rules that are not beneficial to youth development. And I have a feeling that that concern about development was towards only those core/elite players.
I know it's useless argue about rule that league is established but again I am OK with no re-entry as if an elite player is out of breath then sub him and make sure that athlete start working harder on his agility. Or if there is a minor injury that requires to take player from the field then sub him and don't let by any chance to make it worse by putting player back on the field. Or, if you are not happy with player's decisions then sub him and talk after the game (preferably next day). Yes, you might not get the win if you sub one of your key players but it's the development after all that's important and not the a single game result. Again, I am not a coach and it's my opinion.

That was an interesting twist.

Most of the higher-level youth leagues claim "player development" as part of their agenda, even to the point of risking losing games. On the other hand, they set up competitions and regulations that seem to place heavy emphasis on winning and inhibit good coaching practices as if they feel the players are already adequately developed as is.

 

[SFR]

That was an interesting twist.

Most of the higher-level youth leagues claim "player development" as part of their agenda, even to the point of risking losing games. On the other hand, they set up competitions and regulations that seem to place heavy emphasis on winning and inhibit good coaching practices as if they feel the players are already adequately developed as is.

Well, can't argue with that.

 

[dad4]

That was an interesting twist.

Most of the higher-level youth leagues claim "player development" as part of their agenda, even to the point of risking losing games. On the other hand, they set up competitions and regulations that seem to place heavy emphasis on winning and inhibit good coaching practices as if they feel the players are already adequately developed as is.

It’s because parents look at wins and the players on the field when picking clubs.

If we visited a game and noticed how much time the bench got to play, we might make different decisions.

At least for MLS, they are upfront about the purpose of their league- to take 20 excellent players and produce 2 or 3 worth hiring.

 

[espola]

It’s because parents look at wins and the players on the field when picking clubs.

If we visited a game and noticed how much time the bench got to play, we might make different decisions.

At least for MLS, they are upfront about the purpose of their league- to take 20 excellent players and produce 2 or 3 worth hiring.

And, since it is (delayed) Tour de France time, the rest are domestiques.

 

[watfly]

And, since it is (delayed) Tour de France time, the rest are domestiques.

That's a great way to describe it. IMO the no-reentry does not serve the domestiques very well. My concern is they don't get in until late in the game and possibly only get garbage minutes. I feel like no-entry in the same half is way better than no-reentry the remainder of the game.

Clubs need to be more upfront with parents and kids about what they can expect in terms of playing time and where their kids are in the pecking order (since parents are incapable of seeing that for themselves). Our coach was very upfront in our first parent meeting that there were 5-6 players that were identified as players that are going to be groomed to play with the club long term and that the others would have to show significant development to be part of that group. I'm not sure that the parents of the non-anointed fully comprehended what that meant and the coach didn't go into any real detail.

 

[SFR]

Clubs need to be more upfront with parents and kids about what they can expect in terms of playing time and where their kids are in the pecking order (since parents are incapable of seeing that for themselves). Our coach was very upfront in our first parent meeting that there were 5-6 players that were identified as players that are going to be groomed to play with the club long term and that the others would have to show significant development to be part of that group. I'm not sure that the parents of the non-anointed fully comprehended what that meant and the coach didn't go into any real detail.

I agree on this 101%.

 

[messy]

That's a great way to describe it. IMO the no-reentry does not serve the domestiques very well. My concern is they don't get in until late in the game and possibly only get garbage minutes. I feel like no-entry in the same half is way better than no-reentry the remainder of the game.

Clubs need to be more upfront with parents and kids about what they can expect in terms of playing time and where their kids are in the pecking order (since parents are incapable of seeing that for themselves). Our coach was very upfront in our first parent meeting that there were 5-6 players that were identified as players that are going to be groomed to play with the club long term and that the others would have to show significant development to be part of that group. I'm not sure that the parents of the non-anointed fully comprehended what that meant and the coach didn't go into any real detail.

Soccer coaches, God love ‘em and they devote their lives to these kids at very little pay, are the worst communicators ever. A parent has to be adept at reading the tea leaves and ask the kid if s/he wants to keep fighting for the spot, just be happy to be there or to move on. Never easy and the coach never provides clear guidance.

 

[watfly]

Soccer coaches, God love ‘em and they devote their lives to these kids at very little pay, are the worst communicators ever. A parent has to be adept at reading the tea leaves and ask the kid if s/he wants to keep fighting for the spot, just be happy to be there or to move on. Never easy and the coach never provides clear guidance.

I know parents can be a pain in the ass and its probably the worst part of a coaches job, but coaches don't make their job any easier by not communicating and managing expectations.