Johhny " Wet Start " McCain.....lost FOUR Planes....
- Thread starter nononono
- Start date
Have you found that "wet start" reference yet?
Hüsker Dü
DA
Yeah but he does it really loudly . . . like the fucking jackass that he is . . . as he gains the lead for main forum lowlife.
Sheriff Joe
DA
Still emotional I see.
There is no catching up to you Mr Douchebag.
Congratulations.
1967
Rocket causes deadly fire on aircraft carrier
A fire on a United States Navy carrier stationed off the coast of Vietnam kills 134 service members on this day in 1967. The deadly fire on the USS Forrestalbegan with the accidental launch of a rocket.
During the Vietnam War, the USS Forrestal was often stationed off the coast of North Vietnam, conducting combat operations. On the morning of July 29, the ship was preparing to attack when a rocket from one of its own F-4 Phantom jet fighters was accidentally launched. The rocket streaked across the deck and hit a parked A-4 Skyhawk jet. The Skyhawk, which was waiting to take off, was piloted by John McCain, the future senator from Arizona.
Fuel from the Skyhawk spilled out and caught fire. The fire then spread to nearby planes on the ship’s deck and detonated a 1,000-pound bomb, which killed many of the initial firefighters and further spread the fire. A chain reaction of explosions blew holes in the flight deck and had half the large ship on fire at one point. Many pilots were trapped in their planes as the fire spread. It took a full day before the fires could be fully contained.
Hundreds of sailors were seriously injured and 134 lost their lives in the devastating fire. Twenty planes were destroyed. It was the worst loss of a life on a U.S. Navy ship since World War II. Temporary repairs were made to the ship in the Philippines before the Forrestal headed back to Norfolk, Virginia. It was repaired and put back into service the following April, but never returned to Vietnam.
John McCain narrowly escaped the fire and, afterwards, volunteered for duty on the USS Oriskany. Just three months later, his plane was shot down over North Vietnam and he was taken prisoner. He was not released until five-and-a-half years later, in 1973.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/rocket-causes-deadly-fire-on-aircraft-carrier
Rocket causes deadly fire on aircraft carrier
A fire on a United States Navy carrier stationed off the coast of Vietnam kills 134 service members on this day in 1967. The deadly fire on the USS Forrestalbegan with the accidental launch of a rocket.
During the Vietnam War, the USS Forrestal was often stationed off the coast of North Vietnam, conducting combat operations. On the morning of July 29, the ship was preparing to attack when a rocket from one of its own F-4 Phantom jet fighters was accidentally launched. The rocket streaked across the deck and hit a parked A-4 Skyhawk jet. The Skyhawk, which was waiting to take off, was piloted by John McCain, the future senator from Arizona.
Fuel from the Skyhawk spilled out and caught fire. The fire then spread to nearby planes on the ship’s deck and detonated a 1,000-pound bomb, which killed many of the initial firefighters and further spread the fire. A chain reaction of explosions blew holes in the flight deck and had half the large ship on fire at one point. Many pilots were trapped in their planes as the fire spread. It took a full day before the fires could be fully contained.
Hundreds of sailors were seriously injured and 134 lost their lives in the devastating fire. Twenty planes were destroyed. It was the worst loss of a life on a U.S. Navy ship since World War II. Temporary repairs were made to the ship in the Philippines before the Forrestal headed back to Norfolk, Virginia. It was repaired and put back into service the following April, but never returned to Vietnam.
John McCain narrowly escaped the fire and, afterwards, volunteered for duty on the USS Oriskany. Just three months later, his plane was shot down over North Vietnam and he was taken prisoner. He was not released until five-and-a-half years later, in 1973.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/rocket-causes-deadly-fire-on-aircraft-carrier
https://www.factcheck.org/2008/09/mccains-plane-crashes/
Writing in 2003, Caiella points out, correctly, that the official Navy investigation into the disaster – the Manual of the Judge Advocate General Basic Final Investigative Report Concerning the Fire on Board the USS Forrestal (CVA-59) – concluded that the missile struck plane number 405, the A-4 piloted by Lt. Cdr. Fred White, who was among those killed in the incident. McCain’s plane was number 416, and was next to White’s, one plane forward toward the ship’s bow. Caiella has kindly provided us with official Navy summaries of the investigation documenting this finding. He has also allowed us to reproduce here a portion of a drawing he created, based on the Navy report, to illustrate his article. It shows the positions of the aircraft on deck at the time the fire began.
The above depiction contradicts many other accounts.......
Massey makes no reference to McCain or plane number 416. Another summary, written by the Navy’s Judge Advocate General as he forwarded the report to the Chief of Naval Operations, also said the missile “struck A-4 #405” and set off the fire. That summary also says that “A fragment punctured the centerline external fuel tank of another A-4 just aft of the jet blast deflector of catapult #3” That second plane isn’t identified specifically, but McCain’s plane was fifth in line behind the catapults. Caiella says he believes it was plane #310.
This bogus theory appears to have gotten its start from a report by New York Times reporter R. W. Apple. Jr, who reported on July 31, 1967 – two days after the fire – that the Forrestal’s captain, John K. Beling, believed an “extreme wet start” had created “a thick tongue of flame” that set off the Zuni. Beling did not identify McCain’s plane as the source, however, and said only that the aircraft was “parked near the carrier’s island,” which would have put it far forward and on the opposite side of the flight deck from where McCain’s plane was getting ready to launch. Not usually noted by the conspiracy theorists is that Capt. Beling “repeatedly said that he had been unable fully to sort out the conflicting reports” that circulated on the 5,000-man vessel in the hours after the fire, according to Apple, who also called the wet-start theory “tentative.” In any case, Beling’s early theory was soon dismissed by Navy investigators, who found that the Zuni had been touched off by a stray electrical charge, not by a jet exhaust. Author Freeman summarizes the findings succinctly in in “Sailors to the End:”
If both planes burned and exploded....how did they investigate other than
" first " hand accounts.....
The film footage doesn't even document it.
As I stated previously ( 09-4-2018 pm ) ...I'm sticking with Mr Jordan's account.
McCain had a reputation for " Clowning around " and " Hot Dogging " while flying....
I posted the Youtube video...
BY WAYNE MADSEN/WAYNE MADSEN REPORT
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The Navy released John McCain’s military record after a Freedom of Information Act request from the Associated Press. The record is packed with information on McCain’s medals and commendations but little else. The one thing that the McCain campaign does not want to see released is the record of McCain’s antics on board the USS Forestal in 1967. McCain was personally responsible for the deadliest fire in the history of the US Navy. That catastrophe, with 27 dead and over 100 wounded trumps McCain’s record as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam.
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WMR has learned additional details regarding the deadly fire aboard the Navy aircraft carrier, the USS Forrestal, on July 19, 1967 in the Gulf of Tonkin. The additional details point to then-Lt. Commander John McCain playing more of a role in triggering the fire and explosions than previously reported.
.
On January 16, 2006, WMR reported that according to a US Navy sailor who was aboard the Forrestal on the fateful day of the fire, “McCain and the Forrestal’s skipper, Capt. John K. Beling, were warned about the danger of using M-65 1000-lb. bombs manufactured in 1935, which were deemed too dangerous to use during World War II and, later, on B-52 bombers. The fire from the Zuni missile misfire resulted in the heavy 1000 pound bombs being knocked loose from the pylons of McCain’s A-4 aircraft, which were only designed to hold 500-pound bombs.”
.
WMR further reported, “The unstable bombs had a 60-second cook-off threshold in a fire situation and this warning was known to both Beling and McCain prior to the disaster.” WMR also cited the potential that McCain’s Navy records were used against him by the neo-cons in control of the Pentagon. “The neo-cons, who have had five years to examine every file within the Department of Defense, have likely accessed documents that could prove embarrassing to McCain, who was on board the USS Forrestal on July 29, 1967, and whose A-4 Skyhawk was struck by an air-to-ground Zuni missile that had misfired from an F-4 Phantom.”
.
WMR has been informed that crewmen aboard the Forrestal have provided additional information about the Forrestal incident. It is believed by many crewmen and those who have investigated the case that McCain deliberately “wet-started” his A-4E to shake up the guy in the plane behind his A-4. “Wet-starts”, done either deliberately or accidentally, shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft.
.
In McCain’s case, the “wet-start” apparently “cooked off” and launched the Zuni rocket from the rear F-4 that touched off the explosions and massive fire. The F-4 pilot was reportedly killed in the conflagration. “Wet starting” was apparently a common practice among young “hot-dog” pilots.
.
McCain was quickly transferred to the USS Oriskany (the only Forrestal crewman to be immediately transferred). Three months later, McCain was shot down over North Vietnam on October 26, 1967.
.
As WMR previously reported, at the time of the Forrestal disaster, McCain’s father, Admiral John McCain, Jr., was Commander-in-Chief of US Naval Forces Europe (CINCUSNAVEUR) and was busy covering up the details of the deadly and pre-meditated June 8, 1967, Israeli attack on the NSA spy ship, the USS Liberty. [John McCain is one of the best cases against military ‘nepotism’ in American history.]
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The location and/or position of McCain's plane on the flight deck is a HUGE question mark.
The fact that both McCains were involved in two incidents just weeks apart that resulted in a total death count of 168 on the Forrestal and the Liberty, with an additional injury count of 234 on both ships (with a number of them later dying from their wounds) with an accompanying classified paper-trail inside the Pentagon, may be all that was needed to hold a Sword of Damocles over the head of the “family honor”-oriented McCain by the neo-cons.
.
WMR has also been informed by knowledgeable sources, including an ex-Navy A-4 pilot, the “wet-start game” was a common occurrence. However, it is between “very unlikely” and “impossible” for the Forrestal “wet start” to have been accidental. “Wet starts” were later rendered impossible by automated engine controls.
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Read More: https://prepareforchange.net/2017/09...f-the-us-navy/
.
My Thoughts:
.
More info confirming McCain was responsible for Forrestal fire.
The only easy day was yesterday
Dedicated to my brother in law who died
doing what he loved being a Navy SEAL
If both planes burned and exploded....how did they investigate other than
" first " hand accounts.....
The film footage doesn't even document it.
As I stated previously ( 09-4-2018 pm ) ...I'm sticking with Mr Jordan's account.
McCain had a reputation for " Clowning around " and " Hot Dogging " while flying....
I posted the Youtube video...
BY WAYNE MADSEN/WAYNE MADSEN REPORT
.
The Navy released John McCain’s military record after a Freedom of Information Act request from the Associated Press. The record is packed with information on McCain’s medals and commendations but little else. The one thing that the McCain campaign does not want to see released is the record of McCain’s antics on board the USS Forestal in 1967. McCain was personally responsible for the deadliest fire in the history of the US Navy. That catastrophe, with 27 dead and over 100 wounded trumps McCain’s record as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam.
.
WMR has learned additional details regarding the deadly fire aboard the Navy aircraft carrier, the USS Forrestal, on July 19, 1967 in the Gulf of Tonkin. The additional details point to then-Lt. Commander John McCain playing more of a role in triggering the fire and explosions than previously reported.
.
On January 16, 2006, WMR reported that according to a US Navy sailor who was aboard the Forrestal on the fateful day of the fire, “McCain and the Forrestal’s skipper, Capt. John K. Beling, were warned about the danger of using M-65 1000-lb. bombs manufactured in 1935, which were deemed too dangerous to use during World War II and, later, on B-52 bombers. The fire from the Zuni missile misfire resulted in the heavy 1000 pound bombs being knocked loose from the pylons of McCain’s A-4 aircraft, which were only designed to hold 500-pound bombs.”
.
WMR further reported, “The unstable bombs had a 60-second cook-off threshold in a fire situation and this warning was known to both Beling and McCain prior to the disaster.” WMR also cited the potential that McCain’s Navy records were used against him by the neo-cons in control of the Pentagon. “The neo-cons, who have had five years to examine every file within the Department of Defense, have likely accessed documents that could prove embarrassing to McCain, who was on board the USS Forrestal on July 29, 1967, and whose A-4 Skyhawk was struck by an air-to-ground Zuni missile that had misfired from an F-4 Phantom.”
.
WMR has been informed that crewmen aboard the Forrestal have provided additional information about the Forrestal incident. It is believed by many crewmen and those who have investigated the case that McCain deliberately “wet-started” his A-4E to shake up the guy in the plane behind his A-4. “Wet-starts”, done either deliberately or accidentally, shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft.
.
In McCain’s case, the “wet-start” apparently “cooked off” and launched the Zuni rocket from the rear F-4 that touched off the explosions and massive fire. The F-4 pilot was reportedly killed in the conflagration. “Wet starting” was apparently a common practice among young “hot-dog” pilots.
.
McCain was quickly transferred to the USS Oriskany (the only Forrestal crewman to be immediately transferred). Three months later, McCain was shot down over North Vietnam on October 26, 1967.
.
As WMR previously reported, at the time of the Forrestal disaster, McCain’s father, Admiral John McCain, Jr., was Commander-in-Chief of US Naval Forces Europe (CINCUSNAVEUR) and was busy covering up the details of the deadly and pre-meditated June 8, 1967, Israeli attack on the NSA spy ship, the USS Liberty. [John McCain is one of the best cases against military ‘nepotism’ in American history.]
.
The location and/or position of McCain's plane on the flight deck is a HUGE question mark.
The fact that both McCains were involved in two incidents just weeks apart that resulted in a total death count of 168 on the Forrestal and the Liberty, with an additional injury count of 234 on both ships (with a number of them later dying from their wounds) with an accompanying classified paper-trail inside the Pentagon, may be all that was needed to hold a Sword of Damocles over the head of the “family honor”-oriented McCain by the neo-cons.
.
WMR has also been informed by knowledgeable sources, including an ex-Navy A-4 pilot, the “wet-start game” was a common occurrence. However, it is between “very unlikely” and “impossible” for the Forrestal “wet start” to have been accidental. “Wet starts” were later rendered impossible by automated engine controls.
.
Read More: https://prepareforchange.net/2017/09...f-the-us-navy/
.
My Thoughts:
.
More info confirming McCain was responsible for Forrestal fire.
The only easy day was yesterday
Dedicated to my brother in law who died
doing what he loved being a Navy SEAL
" McCain’s most horrendous loss occurred in 1967 on the USS Forrestal. Well, not horrendous for him. The starter motor switch on the A4E Skyhawk allowed fuel to pool in the engine. When the aircraft was “wet-started,” an impressive flame would shoot from the tail. It was one of the ways young hot-shots got their jollies. Investigators and survivors took the position that McCain deliberately wet-started to harass the F4 pilot directly behind him. The cook off launched an M34 Zuni rocket that tore through the Skyhawk’s fuel tank, released a thousand pound bomb, and ignited a fire that killed the pilot plus 167 men. Before the tally of dead and dying was complete, the son and grandson of admirals had been transferred to the USS Oriskany."
https://www.factcheck.org/2008/09/mccains-plane-crashes/
Writing in 2003, Caiella points out, correctly, that the official Navy investigation into the disaster – the Manual of the Judge Advocate General Basic Final Investigative Report Concerning the Fire on Board the USS Forrestal (CVA-59) – concluded that the missile struck plane number 405, the A-4 piloted by Lt. Cdr. Fred White, who was among those killed in the incident. McCain’s plane was number 416, and was next to White’s, one plane forward toward the ship’s bow. Caiella has kindly provided us with official Navy summaries of the investigation documenting this finding. He has also allowed us to reproduce here a portion of a drawing he created, based on the Navy report, to illustrate his article. It shows the positions of the aircraft on deck at the time the fire began.
The above depiction contradicts many other accounts.......
Massey makes no reference to McCain or plane number 416. Another summary, written by the Navy’s Judge Advocate General as he forwarded the report to the Chief of Naval Operations, also said the missile “struck A-4 #405” and set off the fire. That summary also says that “A fragment punctured the centerline external fuel tank of another A-4 just aft of the jet blast deflector of catapult #3” That second plane isn’t identified specifically, but McCain’s plane was fifth in line behind the catapults. Caiella says he believes it was plane #310.
None of which ha anything to do with a so-called "wet start".
" I knew he had survived the fire on the Forrestal but did not know how the fire 'realy' started'
I watched the film of the fire a number of times by serving on British carriers at the time, it was MOD policy to show it to the crews as a warning to keep alert at all times when on deck - as if we needed any warning. Once one had experienced a busy flight deck in operation one needed little warning - the dangers are only too obvious.
I don't know about A4 Skyhawks but wet starts were a common feature at one time particularly with the old centrifugal compressor engines as fitted in many aircraft in the 1940s and early 1950s, although Sea Vixens and Scimitars with Avon axial flows could at times have wet starts (and I once had one on Phantom F4 I was test running). Unburned fuel after shutdown could collect in the cans (combustion chambers) and drain into the jet pipe over time.
Also fuel could collect if the first attempt at starting failed, often the case with cartridge starters. What did an A4 of that era have in that department - engine and starter ? "
I watched the film of the fire a number of times by serving on British carriers at the time, it was MOD policy to show it to the crews as a warning to keep alert at all times when on deck - as if we needed any warning. Once one had experienced a busy flight deck in operation one needed little warning - the dangers are only too obvious.
I don't know about A4 Skyhawks but wet starts were a common feature at one time particularly with the old centrifugal compressor engines as fitted in many aircraft in the 1940s and early 1950s, although Sea Vixens and Scimitars with Avon axial flows could at times have wet starts (and I once had one on Phantom F4 I was test running). Unburned fuel after shutdown could collect in the cans (combustion chambers) and drain into the jet pipe over time.
Also fuel could collect if the first attempt at starting failed, often the case with cartridge starters. What did an A4 of that era have in that department - engine and starter ? "
FYI, McCain's father aided in the cover-up of the USS Liberty massacre. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
http://baltimore.indymedia.org/newswire/di.../7539/index.php
Liberty Cover-Up and John McCain’s ConscienceAuthor
Copyright by the author. All rights reserved.
Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), a/k/a the “Conscience of the Senate,” has refused to support the rising call for a public Congressional hearing, with respect to Israel’s murderous attack on the USS Liberty, on June 8, 1967, that took the lives of 34 Americans. He insists the “matter was thoroughly reviewed” by a Naval Court of Inquiry, later in 1967. However, that inquiry was a whitewash. It’s time for McCain to right this wrong.
No it doesn't does it.....keep reading.....
You don't fly either do you.....
http://baltimore.indymedia.org/newswire/di.../7539/index.php
Liberty Cover-Up and John McCain’s ConscienceAuthor
Copyright by the author. All rights reserved.
Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), a/k/a the “Conscience of the Senate,” has refused to support the rising call for a public Congressional hearing, with respect to Israel’s murderous attack on the USS Liberty, on June 8, 1967, that took the lives of 34 Americans. He insists the “matter was thoroughly reviewed” by a Naval Court of Inquiry, later in 1967. However, that inquiry was a whitewash. It’s time for McCain to right this wrong.
No it doesn't does it.....keep reading.....
You don't fly either do you.....
ALL MILITARY Knows what they signed up for.....
John McStain had nepotism going for him doubled up.