In SoCal what’s it going to be DA/DPL or ECNL?

[MWN]

Wow, starting off with misleading numbers. How many women (or insert any minority) were there in the top 100 athletes 10 years ago, or 20, 30, 50, 100 years ago? When it comes to female/minority representation in statistics, predicting the future based solely on the way things have always been rarely works. The times they are a changing. There are now 2 American women that have passed up college scholarships to play professional soccer. Five years ago there were none. While we should definitely educate young women about the challenges involved and that the deck is stacked against them, that does not mean there will never be opportunities for them. You are correct that for most female athletes, for now, college is the best path forward. But as Ms. Horan and Pugh have shown, there may be other options. Repeating the blurb about 15 year old boys beating the WNT merely restates the fact that men and women are different. Regarding the whole ECNL/GDA/DPL/(insert acronym here) mess, the grown ups need to act like grown ups and compromise and the parents and players need to find the best team/coach/club that meets their individual geographical/budget/playing level needs in the meantime. The people in the next county are not firing artillery at us and life is good.

@outside!, help me understand how my numbers are misleading.

I'm not trying to be an advocate or apologist for the current situation, just provide a dose of reality. Based on your comment, it appears we are at least in 80% agreement. If you have followed my brilliant writings, editorials and prognostications on this forum you will appreciate that I'm a strong advocate of youth sports. Its fun. I love watching my boy play. That said, its a horrible investment strategy from a career stand point, but when the cost of college is $100k over 4 years at a Cal State, spending no more that 10k on the chance of knocking 30k to 60k off that total may be warranted if your kid is in the top 30% of a top 10% club. The math makes the bet acceptable.

My point is we (you, me and the Federation) can't be Pollyanna'ish about this, we have to realistically understand what "woman's team sports" represents as a profession now and in the near future (let's say 20 years). Our current crop of daughters need to be given a realistic assessment of the situation. We can't BS them, its not fair ... brutal honesty. There is nothing stopping us from reevaluating the landscape in the next generation, but since the dawn and time through 2018, there is no "woman's team sports" league that has successfully thrived. The reason for this is sports is entertainment. The people that watch team sports (i.e. those not playing), watch for the pure enjoyment. They want to watch the best examples of that entertainment. Man or woman doesn't matter when National Pride is on the line. This is why the Olympics work, regardless of gender. Why the World Cup works. Having National Pride is fun.

But when it comes to the best soccer athletes, the MLS doesn't get nearly as many views because the talent is lacking, the players suck. A single Premiere League game will get more TV views than 4 MLS games combined (http://worldsoccertalk.com/2017/08/30/two-premier-league-matches-break-one-million-viewers-us-tv/). If the MLS can't cut it in the USA, how on earth do we expect the NWSL to make inroads?

Let's stop B.S.'ing our daughters. The average salary of a Premier League soccer player is $3.7M dollars, the minimum salary of an MLS player is $60k (with the average being $316,777), the minimum salary of a NWSL player is $15k and its capped at 45k. The MLS and NWSL are hobbies (as @pulguita wrote) and these women only get paid because its being subsidized. I just can't see the American population starting to watch any woman's league in such numbers that would allow it to be financially viable. I'm sorry, but I simply disagree with the USSDA's path and think they are doing a tremendous disservice to our young women by focusing on the wrong thing. The USSDA should be doing everything in its power to help elevate play in order to push our girls towards college with the top 1% moving on to some sort of subsidized high level soccer program while the USSF chases the Woman's world cup prize.

 

[outside!]

Sorry Lindsay Who? She already left the club that enticed her to skip college and probably has very little marketability in the upcoming years cause US soccer has done nothing for her. Mal has been the upcoming face for US Soccer and they have been behind her. How long do you think that will last? How long do you think the NWSL will last? My dd watches soccer all the time - the men and the best club teams in the world. Not the MLS and certainly not the NWSL. She can watch her brother's above average U16 team play and will watch better soccer than any NWSL team can provide. So if my dd chooses not to watch the NWSL and most of her D1 teammates don't watch ANY soccer (pretty typical for the US female player) who is NWSL marketing to? 11 year old girls that don't know any better? I certainly am not going to spend 2 hours on Saturday watching an entertainment product that is not very entertaining. How long will it last. My dd and her dbl major and double minor from a very well known SoCal school will out earn all of them in the next 10 years. If she plays a little pro prior to entering a career it will certainly be a "hobby". Lindsay and Mal will cease to be soccer players one day (may happen sooner than later) and then they will have zip to fall back on. Different story if your are a pro athlete in one of the big 4 where 3-5 years could set you up for life if you are smart.

With your feelings about women's soccer, I am surprised you manage to force yourself to watch your daughter's games. Since you never watch women's soccer, how would you have any idea how Lindsay Horan is playing? Men and women are different, but I and many others still find women's soccer to be entertaining.

 

[pulguita]

With your feelings about women's soccer, I am surprised you manage to force yourself to watch your daughter's games. Since you never watch women's soccer, how would you have any idea how Lindsay Horan is playing? Men and women are different, but I and many others still find women's soccer to be entertaining.

I watch them because she is playing. I have always watched them. With no dog in the fight
Thorns are playing the Spirit and Stoke is playing West Ham ( I admit I don't watch the EPL much I am a LaLiga snob as is my kid and she plays like one), who are you watching?

 

[outside!]

I watch Champions League, EPL, WNT, some WPSL, and the occasional MLS game. I also watch women's college soccer when I can. I don't get La Liga on our cable package or I would watch that as well. Hell, I can have fun watching U10 bronze games. Did you at least watch the NCAA women's final?

 

[pulguita]

I watch Champions League, EPL, WNT, some WPSL, and the occasional MLS game. I also watch women's college soccer when I can. I don't get La Liga on our cable package or I would watch that as well. Hell, I can have fun watching U10 bronze games. Did you at least watch the NCAA women's final?

So its Saturday afternoon no one is home but you, and your kid is not playing, you would actually watch a WNT, NWSL, WPSL or womens college game for a couple of hours? You certainly have a much higher threshold of pain than I do. I can remember vividly playing in a U10 tourny in Irvine during the 2007 WWC and talking to a couple coaches and one starts bagging on the womens game. I felt really insulted by some of his comments at the time. 11 years later, ODP Championships, USYS National Championships, National Team callups, D1 Natty. Everything he said was true 11 years later. I just choose to not be pained anymore. And yes I am often pained watching, usually along with many of the coaches in SoCal that I respect, my daughter's college team play AND the teams they are playing. I must say spring games have me pleasantly surprised with our play and it might be really fun this fall.

 

[Fact]

Blues, Surf SD and Surf OC jumping into DPL is telling though...........

http://dpleague.org/

Ok now that I have had time to read the Pilot 03 DPL press release I understand what is going on.
1. The Frontier Division 03 Pilot is a US Soccer Development Academy approved program.
2. The Socal 03 Pilot is the creation of DPL tracksuit wearing used car salesmen.
3. The Socal 03 Pilot is NOT sanctioned by the US Soccer Development Academy.
4. The reason they state that the best 03s will play on the banded 02/03 teams is because what family in the right mind would want their child to play in DPL 03 with similar restrictions and costs as DA when they are good enough to make the banded team.
5. I believe they have the same no high school restriction and other similarities as DA teams solely to confuse families into believing their child is in a real DA pilot program.
6. Other than 4 days of practice like DA teams and no high school, isn’t this exactly like this years DPL teams?
7. DPL promises that the 03 Pilot teams will participate in the same showcases as the DA teams to play against the Frontier 03 Pilot teams. I wonder if this is really true like when the claimed DA 2 was part of DA? If DA wanted a 03 Pilot program in SoCal they would have created one. To me it is more likely that DPL will try to find a venue near DA showcases and hope coaches will show up. However for Surf, OC Surf and Blues which will still have ECNL teams, these DPL 03 Pilot teams will be their “C” teams. So this is just a lot of marketing bull by the track suit wearing used car salesmen. And it will keep 03s that don’t make the 02/03 banded team from leaving to find an ECNL team for this year; so I am not sure what Surf, Blues and OC Surf get out of this.

 

[PossessionSoccer]

So its Saturday afternoon no one is home but you, and your kid is not playing, you would actually watch a WNT, NWSL, WPSL or womens college game for a couple of hours? You certainly have a much higher threshold of pain than I do. I can remember vividly playing in a U10 tourny in Irvine during the 2007 WWC and talking to a couple coaches and one starts bagging on the womens game. I felt really insulted by some of his comments at the time. 11 years later, ODP Championships, USYS National Championships, National Team callups, D1 Natty. Everything he said was true 11 years later. I just choose to not be pained anymore. And yes I am often pained watching, usually along with many of the coaches in SoCal that I respect, my daughter's college team play AND the teams they are playing. I must say spring games have me pleasantly surprised with our play and it might be really fun this fall.

I’ll admit, I am a La Liga snob too, but I really enjoy watching Stanford Women play as well. A couple of their players came from that De Anza Force G98 team. They played great soccer. You can YouTube their top plays. I would have paid to watch them play before paying to watch LA Galaxy.

 

[Simisoccerfan]

Ok now that I have had time to read the Pilot 03 DPL press release I understand what is going on.
1. The Frontier Division 03 Pilot is a US Soccer Development Academy approved program.
2. The Socal 03 Pilot is the creation of DPL tracksuit wearing used car salesmen.
3. The Socal 03 Pilot is NOT sanctioned by the US Soccer Development Academy.
4. The reason they state that the best 03s will play on the banded 02/03 teams is because what family in the right mind would want their child to play in DPL 03 with similar restrictions and costs as DA when they are good enough to make the banded team.
5. I believe they have the same no high school restriction and other similarities as DA teams solely to confuse families into believing their child is in a real DA pilot program.
6. Other than 4 days of practice like DA teams and no high school, isn’t this exactly like this years DPL teams?
7. DPL promises that the 03 Pilot teams will participate in the same showcases as the DA teams to play against the Frontier 03 Pilot teams. I wonder if this is really true like when the claimed DA 2 was part of DA? If DA wanted a 03 Pilot program in SoCal they would have created one. To me it is more likely that DPL will try to find a venue near DA showcases and hope coaches will show up. However for Surf, OC Surf and Blues which will still have ECNL teams, these DPL 03 Pilot teams will be their “C” teams. So this is just a lot of marketing bull by the track suit wearing used car salesmen. And it will keep 03s that don’t make the 02/03 banded team from leaving to find an ECNL team for this year; so I am not sure what Surf, Blues and OC Surf get out of this.

It would ironic that your kids end up playing DPL.

 

[Messi>CR7]

@outside!
Let's stop B.S.'ing our daughters. The average salary of a Premier League soccer player is $3.7M dollars, the minimum salary of an MLS player is $60k (with the average being $316,777), the minimum salary of a NWSL player is $15k and its capped at 45k. The MLS and NWSL are hobbies (as @pulguita wrote) and these women only get paid because its being subsidized. I just can't see the American population starting to watch any woman's league in such numbers that would allow it to be financially viable. I'm sorry, but I simply disagree with the USSDA's path and think they are doing a tremendous disservice to our young women by focusing on the wrong thing. The USSDA should be doing everything in its power to help elevate play in order to push our girls towards college with the top 1% moving on to some sort of subsidized high level soccer program while the USSF chases the Woman's world cup prize.

My DD is still many many years away from college, but I found the debate on this thread quite telling. There seems to be a lot more changes and contentions on the girls' side. I think that's a direct result from the lack of true "pathway" for girls compared to boys, so the federation/league/clubs have to keep changing their marketing strategy to attract/retain customers.

 

[SocalPapa]

However for Surf, OC Surf and Blues which will still have ECNL teams, these DPL 03 Pilot teams will be their “C” teams. So this is just a lot of marketing bull by the track suit wearing used car salesmen.

Saying it's a "C" team doesn't tell you the whole story. For example, if you look at Blues:

1) Their current 2003 GDA team is the #1 team in the SW division (and, per my earlier RPI calc, the #3 GDA team in the country).
2) AR just joined Blues and another poster said the players from his current Strikers team (the #1 2003 ECNL team in SW) may follow him
3) Blues' current 01/02 GDA team has 14 2002 players on it
4) Blues has an existing 2003 ECNL team

So it appears they'll have 1 full GDA roster and up to 2 full ECNL rosters, including some of the best 2003 players in the country, competing for spots on a single ECNL roster plus perhaps a limited number of roster spots on the GDA 02/03 team. (In other words they've got 3 high-level 2003 rosters that will be cut down to 2-1/2 rosters or so, even including the pilot team.) So I suspect whatever pilot team Blues ends up with ("C" team or not), it will be competitive with pretty much any club's A team, DA and ECNL included.

 

[Fact]

It would ironic that your kids end up playing DPL.

That would be ironic given that my kids are older.

 

[Fact]

Saying it's a "C" team doesn't tell you the whole story. For example, if you look at Blues:

1) Their current 2003 GDA team is the #1 team in the SW division (and, per my earlier RPI calc, the #3 GDA team in the country).
2) AR just joined Blues and another poster said the players from his current Strikers team (the #1 2003 ECNL team in SW) may follow him
3) Blues' current 01/02 GDA team has 14 2002 players on it
4) Blues has an existing 2003 ECNL team

So it appears they'll have 1 full GDA roster and up to 2 full ECNL rosters, including some of the best 2003 players in the country, competing for spots on a single ECNL roster plus perhaps a limited number of roster spots on the GDA 02/03 team. (In other words they've got 3 high-level 2003 rosters that will be cut down to 2-1/2 rosters or so, even including the pilot team.) So I suspect whatever pilot team Blues ends up with ("C" team or not), it will be competitive with pretty much any club's A team, DA and ECNL included.

I hear you but Blues has always been the exception not the rule. However I do wonder how many parents are going to be satisfied with their dd on the 3rd team. I hope they keep their egos in check.

 

[Fact]

@Lambchop and @Simi why don’t you explain what information I have is not correct? Whoever claimed they DA was going to have a 03 Pilot program was spreading fake news.

 

[G03_SD]

I'm curious what are the thoughts of GDA 03 players who are starters now. Are you going to put your players in 02/03 or opt for 03 DA/DPL pilot team?

 

[Fact]

I'm curious what are the thoughts of GDA 03 players who are starters now. Are you going to put your players in 02/03 or opt for 03 DA/DPL pilot team?

It is NOT a DA Pilot!!!!
It is a DPL creation to keep 03 players that don’t make the 02/03
DA team instead of going to ECNL teams.
i.e. Fake News/used car salesmen tactics

I wonder if US Soccer knows they are marketing this?

 

[MWN]

I'm curious what are the thoughts of GDA 03 players who are starters now. Are you going to put your players in 02/03 or opt for 03 DA/DPL pilot team?

Typically, in the composite years the youngers that can start will play on the composite team. The youngers that are not ready for the starting lineup, will be delegated to a team that will compete at an appropriate level in one of the leagues. The boys will go to a coast Premier level or SCDSL flight 1 champions, based on where they're base Club typically plays. With the girls, it's likely those clubs will put their youngers that don't make the academy composite team on to a team that plays in the DPL or will do something similar to what the boys do.

 

[Desert Hound]

It is NOT a DA Pilot!!!!
It is a DPL creation to keep 03 players that don’t make the 02/03
DA team instead of going to ECNL teams.
i.e. Fake News/used car salesmen tactics

I wonder if US Soccer knows they are marketing this?

It would seem US Soccer has to be involved.

If we assume the press release from the DPL is correct...those 03 DPL teams will get to play as guest teams in some DA showcases. You can't just add teams to a showcase run by US Soccer unless you have their blessing.

 

[Fact]

It would seem US Soccer has to be involved.

If we assume the press release from the DPL is correct...those 03 DPL teams will get to play as guest teams in some DA showcases. You can't just add teams to a showcase run by US Soccer unless you have their blessing.

Have you heard of DA 2 a where the tracksuit wearing used car salesmen promised very similar features only to have US Soccer tell them NOT to use the DA name.

Unless there is a press release from US Soccer, this is just spin.

When you assume you only make an ass out of u not me.

 

[Kicker4Life]

It is NOT a DA Pilot!!!!
It is a DPL creation to keep 03 players that don’t make the 02/03
DA team instead of going to ECNL teams.
i.e. Fake News/used car salesmen tactics

I wonder if US Soccer knows they are marketing this?

It is a US Soccer sanctioned Pilot. It is likely you won’t see a PR because it is a Pilot program. There was no PR for the ‘05 Pilot program run in the Frontier Division this year either, but it happened and it was sanctioned by USSoccer. Sorry dude, but your wrong on this one.

 

[MWN]

There appears to be a little more information in this article, which appears to be mostly reiterating the press release: http://goalnation.com/girls-dpl-play-u-s-soccer-da-showcase/). I don't have any trouble believing the teams will show up as "guests" to the DA Showcase The DA will have plenty of fields for each showcase. The summer showcase is in San Diego/Oceanside, so makes sense to have the unsanctioned DPL "B" teams make an appearance and play against the Frontier division (sanctioned "B" teams). From the article:

As part of the programming for the DPL U16 age group, the teams will participate as ‘guest teams’ in the U.S. Soccer Development Academy Winter Showcase and Summer Showcases, to compete against U-16 DA Pilot Program teams from the Frontier Division experiment.

What this means is the Frontier Division experiment is expanding to the U16/03's (ergo the "pilot program"), if we accept this press release as true.