oh canada
GOLD
I stand corrected. thank you. Maybe there's a difference between rostered vs. who actually plays. I remember watching UCLA in the College Cup and thinking, wow, they are big. Santa Clara too.
Height and Soccer
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Or perception isn’t the reality.
Wazzu has a giant team.
I don't know what rosters you are talking about.
North Carolina - 12 players on the roster under 5'5"
Florida State - 6 players
Santa Clara - 9 players
UCLA -10 players
Virginia - 4 players
TCU - 6 players
Clemson- 5 players
Duke - 9 players
I would say those numbers are anything but "rare"
Those that play are those that are the best that produce results. When you get to D1 level, it is about who produces results not how tall you are.
outside!
DA
When I attended a USC game, all of the USC players on the field except for 2 were 5'7" or taller. One of their better players was shorter than 5'7" and was injured before that game and did not play.
Highlander
SILVER ELITE
Great topic as I have wondered about this. Where is the female Messi, Maradona, Pele, Xavi, etc...so many great players that are below average height. Seems like on the male side being small is an advantage for attacking players. My only thought is that females play the game differently than males...the smaller players don't take advantage of their speed/quickness as much as the male players do...allowing the big Oh-ffs to use their size to push their way around.
Refs allow big defenders to attack small attackers in the girl's game. Watch my boy and girl play every weekend and it's always the same story, boys get called for knocking players around while girls are reinforced to do it. Makes it hard for small girls to advance in soccer as a forward.
what-happened
GOLD
Marta comes to mind -She's 5'4" and generally considered an all time great.
Here's an article on why being shorter helped out in the pros for attacking players...it has to do with the steps being shorter and being able to turn quicker.....
Soccer Is the Perfect Sport for Short Men
Unlike in other sports, some of soccer's biggest stars are small in stature.
www.theatlantic.com
It's also true, however, that among the male pros in Europe, the players have been getting taller, including strikers
Soccer-European players getting taller, faster and older - study
European footballers are on average playing at the top level until they are older, growing taller and running faster, according to a study of football across the continent published on Wednesday.
www.reuters.com
Are You Tall Enough To Be A Premier League Player? – The Versed
www.theversed.com
I think the most likely explanation is that the increase coincides with the rise in the academy system, and to survive the academy (given how ruthless it's become and how few are now willing to take a chance like on a short Messi) the player needs to survive year over year. Among the boys, something happens around age 12 (earlier for higher flight players, later for lower flight players)...the GKs begin to get their training basics down and the defenders begin to master the fundamentals of the offside rule so it becomes a lot harder for players to score just from a direct shot on goal. That means you are left with scoring on a PK or kick, a 1 v 1 (or higher like a 2v1) or a cross. For the cross you have to be able to beat the goalkeeper or defenders to the header (most European countries don't have the antiheader rule for the very young)....if the GKs and defenders have been increasing in height, the strikers must as well to be able to get the ball on the cross.
Here's an article on why being shorter helped out in the pros for attacking players...it has to do with the steps being shorter and being able to turn quicker.....
Soccer Is the Perfect Sport for Short Men
Unlike in other sports, some of soccer's biggest stars are small in stature.
It's also true, however, that among the male pros in Europe, the players have been getting taller, including strikers
Soccer-European players getting taller, faster and older - study
European footballers are on average playing at the top level until they are older, growing taller and running faster, according to a study of football across the continent published on Wednesday.
Are You Tall Enough To Be A Premier League Player? – The Versed
I think the most likely explanation is that the increase coincides with the rise in the academy system, and to survive the academy (given how ruthless it's become and how few are now willing to take a chance like on a short Messi) the player needs to survive year over year. Among the boys, something happens around age 12 (earlier for higher flight players, later for lower flight players)...the GKs begin to get their training basics down and the defenders begin to master the fundamentals of the offside rule so it becomes a lot harder for players to score just from a direct shot on goal. That means you are left with scoring on a PK or kick, a 1 v 1 (or higher like a 2v1) or a cross. For the cross you have to be able to beat the goalkeeper or defenders to the header (most European countries don't have the antiheader rule for the very young)....if the GKs and defenders have been increasing in height, the strikers must as well to be able to get the ball on the cross.
Interestingly there was a study run by Tifo football on GK height. The pros have been recruiting taller and taller goalkeepers under the theory that it covers more of the goal. Tifo posited that the ideal height, IIRC, for a male GK is roughly 6'2 to 6'3. Any higher than that and the GK has a timing problem getting the hands to ground and becomes substantially less effective at the lower shots. Any shorter than that, and the GK is unable to maximize the coverage of the goal particularly high shots. But the EPL is now over the ideal height average for GKS. They didn't posit why, but I'd argue it's the same dynamic...to get through the academies year over year the more effective goalkeepers are the ones who are simply taller. If you have a beast at age 13 that can easily touch the cross bar, that kid is just going to be more effective than one of equal training that can't and therefore is more likely to make it through the academy, which has its pick of hard workers and talent.
I suspect I have a controversial (and unscientific) take on this. I personally think most youth coaches in the US aren't equipped to teach tactical play effectively. I mean it's a hard thing to do especially with youngers. The only way to beat bigger more physical teams is to have a smarter, more tactical game plan. As a result many coaches run with the "if you can't beat'em, join'em" mentality. I hope I'm wrong, but my guess is we lose a lot of highly skilled / high potential players as a result.
I have also observed an interesting dynamic between boys and girls. For boys size matters a ton at the very early ages and less so as they get older (excluding specific positions, e.g., CB). For girls size matters more as they get older. I can't help but to believe that this emphasis on size and physicality for the girls is why many girls teams just don't seem that dynamic. Many of the teams I've seen play just seem to be lumbering in movement.
I don't have any supporting data, but I "feel" like coaches with UEFA licenses (and are European) vs USSF licenses don't particularly care about the size of a player.
I have also observed an interesting dynamic between boys and girls. For boys size matters a ton at the very early ages and less so as they get older (excluding specific positions, e.g., CB). For girls size matters more as they get older. I can't help but to believe that this emphasis on size and physicality for the girls is why many girls teams just don't seem that dynamic. Many of the teams I've seen play just seem to be lumbering in movement.
I don't have any supporting data, but I "feel" like coaches with UEFA licenses (and are European) vs USSF licenses don't particularly care about the size of a player.
Interesting we all have our own unique perspectives
With 2 boys and a girls playing through high school and the youngest a college freshman. All 3 players on the smaller to average size, one above in high school later so size & height weren't really a big factor on their teams that I recall.
The change to calendar did highlight the potential size difference in some kids I do remember but the older the boys now men became the bigger, faster, stronger they became it seems.
College players are another step up in size and speed have to wonder if that's why the out of 50 high school players only 3 will make it own a team playing.
Highlander
SILVER ELITE
I think it's the coaching and just where the girls game is at today. They place more importance on size and share athleticism and the importance to win NOW....that is what ECNL is all about after all, and let's face it, parents demand it. I do think this will change...someone is going to get smart out there and build a team with some small/quick players and one will emerge to be "Messi" like.
I agree with your conclusions but I don’t think it’s that they aren’t equipped to teach tactical play. It’s that they are punished (with a loss and therefore no promotion or tournament win) if they do. Soccer is after all a game of mistakes and teaching tactical play means making a lot of mistakes while learning. To build from the back you have to have 4-8 kids connect their passes without losing the ball from gk to striker without a single mistake. It’s that the system encourages the short cuts.
I may be wrong, but here is my theory...the American women's program paved the way for international soccer. The "American Way" is bigger, faster, stronger which turned out to be a very successful approach. So that approach gets ingrained in the development of US female players.
Whereas, on the men's side European and South America paved the way for international soccer. Their soccer is more technical and tactical which doesn't necessarily require the biggest, fastest, strongest players. More so it requires technical skill and soccer IQ.
Soccer more than anything else is a player decision making sport, unlike most American sports where the decision making is controlled by the coach or their are limited decisions to make in the course of a play. It will be curious to see if we develop a more soccer IQ approach to American soccer. I think its very slowly happening on the boy's and men's side out of a necessity to compete. Until the European and South American teams regularly beat our women with a technical and tactical approach, we probably won't see much change in the bigger, faster, stronger approach.
Whereas, on the men's side European and South America paved the way for international soccer. Their soccer is more technical and tactical which doesn't necessarily require the biggest, fastest, strongest players. More so it requires technical skill and soccer IQ.
Soccer more than anything else is a player decision making sport, unlike most American sports where the decision making is controlled by the coach or their are limited decisions to make in the course of a play. It will be curious to see if we develop a more soccer IQ approach to American soccer. I think its very slowly happening on the boy's and men's side out of a necessity to compete. Until the European and South American teams regularly beat our women with a technical and tactical approach, we probably won't see much change in the bigger, faster, stronger approach.
Agree, but as I posted above, on the men's side this is changing too especially in Europe....players in the front and in the back (less so the mid) have been getting progressively taller on average over the last 20 years, which coincides with the rise and dominance of the academy system.
This is really hard to do with youth soccer. One of the issue is that GK training has change in the last 10 years...it used to be that you wouldn't have GK start to specialize until at least age 12....but now if you look at GK camps they begin to specialize as early as 8 (some on these forums even argued remember there are elite GK at age 8)....so to score on the GK after the early ages it begins to limit your options to either shoot over the goalkeeper (until they are tall enough) or creative play and the former is just easier. It's actually funny to watch the shift to 11 v 11 and see strikers that used to be able to just run the ball in past the goalkeeper now be able to be beaten by the goalkeepers that actually know their technique and don't just hold on the line like statutes...they turn around and wonder why they aren't scoring as much anymore. Bigger legs mean a better ability to bang it either over the goalkeeper or so fast that they don't have time to react.
The second is the defenders. Body checking is allowed in soccer and its an effective technique. If you have to connected 4-8 passes to get it to goal and you can just bump off one of the attacking players with a body check, it disrupts the play. It's just easier to teach your kids to disrupt the play through body checking than through tactical defense and the offside trap. Plus the refs aren't going to call (let alone card) any but the more egregious plays so even if the body check goes too far it's a low risk play.
It worries me to think that a registered referee would allow "body-checking".
But I was brought up playing more hockey than soccer, so perhaps you don't get the import of those words.
A proper shoulder to shoulder challenge, should you prefer.
Messi>CR7
GOLD
To play the technical style you described, boys worldwide spend 10+ hours each week mastering their craft. We tell our girls to focus on academics (and rightfully so) and most train perhaps 3 to 5 hours a week. Without the necessary investment in time, the "American Way" might be the optimal strategy for girls.