Hard Cast during State Cup

Surfref said:
I have to stick up for E. His comments about the Doc are correct. I was told that he finally hug up the whistle. Unfortunately it appears the Doc has not changed with the times. He was a Grade 5 at one time many, many, many years ago and seems to have taken his 15 and not adapted to the changing LOTG and times. I saw him a couple years ago Yellow card a HS age player that entered the field as a substitute about two yards to the side of the center line. He told the coach the player had entered the field incorrectly as a sub. I have seen him do some other crazy stuff on several occasions. A few years ago I got an assignment to work with him and declined the games. Luckily the assignor understood and put me on other games.

There is You Tube video out there of the incident E was talking about.
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Much more than now, back then, in order to get to grade 5 you had to be able to use much more common sense and be practical, be able to work within or even stretch the LOTG to the utmost to make sure your influence on the game is that much more minimal. You were expected not to be a slave of the technically correct over practicality. I know referees that could recite the whole book, (they used to have over 100 pages then, with all the IBD explanations), by heart, but could never get to grade 5 because they were not practical. They wanted to apply the laws robotically and without common sense. And they knew their stuff. Now, it seems, these qualities are only expected of national referees or higher.

How did this Dr. Whatever make it? And how have assignors let him get away with this disgrace to the sport for so long?
 
zebrafish said:
Actually, it's not.
Depending on where the fracture is, even a hard cast isn't completely protective of an injury. It is relatively protective.
This is why frequently forearm fractures may be casted above the elbow for several weeks until a callous forms and they are stable to the simple movement of the elbow and shortening of the cast to below the elbow (but not stable to a hard fall onto the cast/arm).
I think it is ludicrous to have your kid play with a hard cast, purely for the issue of additional (and unnecessary) injury risk
As I coach, I wouldn't allow it (but fortunately the league had very clear rules on this).
I've seen a few kids play with various iterations of padded forearms, and every single time the cast has been used as a blunt object against other players--- intentionally or not I do not know
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Actually it is.

As long as the joint above and below the fracture are immobilized, there is not any additional risk than there would have been had there not been a fracture. Believe me, I know.
 
watfly said:
By all means, pad up lil Johnny and then place the burden on your Coach or Manager to argue with the ref and the coordinators of the benefit of an injured player playing with a club arm, all the while your teammates and opponent patiently wait for snowflake to be cleared so he doesn't miss out on State Cup. It's important to teach this "me first" entitlement mentality early.
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Who told you the discussion on this is going to delay the game?
 
Just a Parent said:
Actually it is.

As long as the joint above and below the fracture are immobilized, there is not any additional risk than there would have been had there not been a fracture. Believe me, I know.
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Many times the cast is just on the forearm, leaving the elbow mobile. If the break is in the forearm, a cast will prevent bending moments, but will not prevent compression or tension on the fracture area.
 
Just a Parent said:
Actually it is.

As long as the joint above and below the fracture are immobilized, there is not any additional risk than there would have been had there not been a fracture. Believe me, I know.
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Um... ok. But exactly how many kids are going to play in a soccer game with an immobilized elbow?

If ulna and/or radius are fractured, then by your own statement you'd need to immobilize the joint "above" (and most people who really knew would involuntarily use the term proximal) -- which is the elbow---for complete protection.

I would argue that forearm cast (which allows elbow mobility) does not provide full protection to areas in question. Playing in a forearm cast with fingers exposed is also a great way to break a finger when you fall onto that outstretched hand and can't bend your wrist in a full-contact game. But that is only my knowing opinion. You are welcome to yours, by all means.
 
outside! said:
Many times the cast is just on the forearm, leaving the elbow mobile. If the break is in the forearm, a cast will prevent bending moments, but will not prevent compression or tension on the fracture area.
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zebrafish said:
Um... ok. But exactly how many kids are going to play in a soccer game with an immobilized elbow?

If ulna and/or radius are fractured, then by your own statement you'd need to immobilize the joint "above" (and most people who really knew would involuntarily use the term proximal) -- which is the elbow---for complete protection.

I would argue that forearm cast (which allows elbow mobility) does not provide full protection to areas in question. Playing in a forearm cast with fingers exposed is also a great way to break a finger when you fall onto that outstretched hand and can't bend your wrist in a full-contact game. But that is only my knowing opinion. You are welcome to yours, by all means.
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Talking of "knowing", most people who really "knew" would involuntarily use humeroradial joint instead of elbow and antibrachium instead of the forearm. They wouldn't use fingers either. They would involuntarilily call them phalanges. Did I say they wouldn't use "wrist" either? But having being a practioner in this field for only 40 years or so myself, I must say, you really know your stuff. Kudos!!

But having said all this, unbeknown to you, you just answered your own question. If you see a kid with a cast covering just part of the forearm, you can almost be certain the kid does not have a Colle's fracture. Do you know what the commonest fractures are for this type of immobilization dear?
 
outside! said:
Many times the cast is just on the forearm, leaving the elbow mobile. If the break is in the forearm, a cast will prevent bending moments, but will not prevent compression or tension on the fracture area.
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No one would apply the cast to just the forearm if the fracture is in the forearm.
 
Just a Parent said:
No one would apply the cast to just the forearm if the fracture is in the forearm.
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Fair enough, what type of fracture gets a forearm cast? I assume the wrist area? While the cast will prevent the wrist from bending, I don't see how it protects from compression or tension (which are somewhat unlikely) loads. Do those types of loads promote healing?

My son once fractured his arm just above the wrist the day before rec season started practice. He sat out from all contact drills and games until he got the cast off. We didn't even ask the doctor if he could play.
 
outside! said:
Fair enough, what type of fracture gets a forearm cast? I assume the wrist area? While the cast will prevent the wrist from bending, I don't see how it protects from compression or tension (which are somewhat unlikely) loads. Do those types of loads promote healing?

My son once fractured his arm just above the wrist the day before rec season started practice. He sat out from all contact drills and games until he got the cast off. We didn't even ask the doctor if he could play.
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My son broke both bones in his left forearm - fell while running backward in tall grass at UCSD and landed on the arm. He got a cast over the entire forearm looped over the thumb. Actually he got the cast three times - one in the ER the night it happened, one the next day because Children's Hospital doc didn't like the way it had been set, one a week later when they still didn't like it.
 
outside! said:
Fair enough, what type of fracture gets a forearm cast? I assume the wrist area? While the cast will prevent the wrist from bending, I don't see how it protects from compression or tension (which are somewhat unlikely) loads. Do those types of loads promote healing?

My son once fractured his arm just above the wrist the day before rec season started practice. He sat out from all contact drills and games until he got the cast off. We didn't even ask the doctor if he could play.
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Fractures of the bones around the wrist, carpal bones and dislocations. The hand is cashed in a "functional position" with the wrist flexed at 35-40 degrees, which should allow for pretty normal function .
 
Just a Parent said:
Fractures of the bones around the wrist, carpal bones and dislocations. The hand is cashed in a "functional position" with the wrist flexed at 35-40 degrees, which should allow for pretty normal function .
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Flexed 35 to 40 degrees in a cast? Really? You have no idea what you're talking about. I'm guessing you're a chiropractor. Jump on google real quick check "functional position".
 
smellycleats said:
Flexed 35 to 40 degrees in a cast? Really? You have no idea what you're talking about. I'm guessing you're a chiropractor. Jump on google real quick check "functional position".
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smellycleats said:
Flexed 35 to 40 degrees in a cast? Really? You have no idea what you're talking about. I'm guessing you're a chiropractor. Jump on google real quick check "functional position".
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Oh, I could have said dorsiflexed, but what good would that have made to the average reader? Second, why in the world would I look for medical information at Google real?
 
Just a Parent said:
Oh, I could have said dorsiflexed, but what good would that have made to the average reader? Second, why in the world would I look for medical information at Google real?
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Why not? It seems to have served you well so far. You don't use the term dorsiflexion to describe motion of the wrist. Dorsiflexion, plantarflexion refer to the ankle.
 
Just A Parent...Why is it you can spell all of the important medical terms correctly but you can't spell some of the basic words in your posts the right way? For someone who has spent years in the field you are either a NP or a PA w/HUA (Figure out that term) or an Orthopedist with really bad spelling and terrible reading comprehension who just squeaked by in Med School. "smelly cleats" said to jump on Google real quick. You asked why would you bother looking for medical info on 'Google real'. Before that "espola" said they fired 'Dr. A' right off the field. You referred to him as 'Dr. A right'. I think you really are gathering all of your info off of Google!! THUN THUN THUN!! :eek:
Yeah I'm just stirring the pot. But for the record...I wouldn't want anyone with a cast playing in a game against my kid. My kid is a GK and although I've seen her take plenty of hits on the field, I'd rather not see the outcome of her against a striker after she takes a forearm to the face from a cast, padded or not.
I now return you to your regularly scheduled program of "Forum Posters vs J.A.P." in the great cast debate.
 
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