guest players and playtime

Guests players are necessary in a variety of instances and parents that complain may have valid reasons. <-- How's that for a non-committal statement.

Now, if "winning" wasn't important, we would not keep score (or have standings). The benefits of bringing "up" players to "fill the ranks" at a tournament are unquestionable. Tournaments have multiple games per day and having subs available is both smart from a competitive standpoint and safety standpoint. Play the kids that give the team the best chance of winning the tournament, but substitute generously. Having an upper flight player come down to help the lower division also has merit, especially if the upper flight player is a bench player. The lower level players get to experience the next level players and see first hand the type of play that will get them moved up.

In my mind, the only time bringing in guest players would not be appropriate is when a team has plenty of quality players rostered and the guests are from an upper level playing to simply win a meaningless game.

If the issue is development ... 91.3456% of the development time (give or take .020525 percent) occurs in practice. Games simply allow the player to demonstrate their development during a competition with kids that have different colored backpacks. Sure, they are going to learn a few things, but the real development occurs in practice.

Final note, there is also a business justification from a club perspective. Sending down bench players to play on the lower flight team gives the parents and the player an opportunity to experience what life might be like not playing on the upper flight team. When it comes to next season or a mid-season relegation, those parents/player has seen that its not so bad and even kinda cool to get more playing time. Maybe the player sticks with the club, instead of looking to play at that other club across town.
 
Yeah, it's fun to win a tournament, but how much of a win is it if you have a couple ringers winning it for you? Is it worth reducing a rostered kids playtime?

you have a problem with a kid guesting who is considered not up to the level, but no problem with a kid guesting who is lightyears ahead in talent?

I have seen many b and c teams this year bring on ecnl or ecnl level guests just to help win. I don't see how that benefits anyone, except the parents who get to brag about the win on Facebook.
 
My daughter guest plays for the AYSO Extra teams as we are still involved with AYSO and the Extra program, but only as a field player since she has been playing keeper all year. They are usually short a kid or two, plus they all get 3/4 of the game playing time. Its a nice break for her, gets her running, refines her ball control skills, and keeps her options open for the future if she ends up changing her mind about playing keeper in the future(she is 11 and a girl, so anything is possible) :p.

She gets to play the whole game, and fits in well as she is usually the best passer on any team she plays with. Other parents don't seem to mind, and I make sure to thank all the parents for letting us play with them. In every case though they are short on girls and she isn't replacing one of them in an effort to get a win. I also think it helps their development as well as she is involving them in the game.
 
chargerfan said:
Yeah, it's fun to win a tournament, but how much of a win is it if you have a couple ringers winning it for you? Is it worth reducing a rostered kids playtime?

you have a problem with a kid guesting who is considered not up to the level, but no problem with a kid guesting who is lightyears ahead in talent?

I have seen many b and c teams this year bring on ecnl or ecnl level guests just to help win. I don't see how that benefits anyone, except the parents who get to brag about the win on Facebook.
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Do parents really post stuff on Facebook about winning soccer tournaments?
 
socalkdg said:
My daughter guest plays for the AYSO Extra teams as we are still involved with AYSO and the Extra program, but only as a field player since she has been playing keeper all year. They are usually short a kid or two, plus they all get 3/4 of the game playing time. Its a nice break for her, gets her running, refines her ball control skills, and keeps her options open for the future if she ends up changing her mind about playing keeper in the future(she is 11 and a girl, so anything is possible) :p.

She gets to play the whole game, and fits in well as she is usually the best passer on any team she plays with. Other parents don't seem to mind, and I make sure to thank all the parents for letting us play with them. In every case though they are short on girls and she isn't replacing one of them in an effort to get a win. I also think it helps their development as well as she is involving them in the game.
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Great point. A player should play everything at 11. Versatility is a very key attribute for a player to have.
 
I see it as the players can learn from better guest players when we borrow "ringers". Ringers can learn how to play with less skilled players on the team. It's a learning opportunity for both. Ringers can make a difference. But I would not say ringers win games even if they are the only ones scoring.
 
sbay said:
Interesting thread on another spot I thought I'd post and see where it goes. Guests being invited to play with your team and current rostered players are put on the bench. My kid was a guest for a big tourney last year and there were parents that welcomed us and parents that were clearly pissed.

Thoughts on how guests impact your team?
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My daughter played up a year for a 3 day tourney within our own club, there was 3 younger guests including my girl and 1 of the dads of a rostered player got pissed and pulled his player at halftime of game 2, big scene.
 
softwaretest said:
lol why was it so important that they "get it done"? Perhaps they should have taken the team down to the level that they were playing at so the existing girls could develop. Winning doesn't necessarily equal progress or development. We played a team this year that brought in three guest players for a fairly meaningless league game while most of the girls on the team could hardly even dribble the ball. That team while they squeaked out a win isn't even playing state cup and I guess will be able to maintain the same level for next year while needing a completely new team to do so.
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it was important to play at the level that would get college interest the following year, playing down would not have gotten the interest from college coaches, 5 of the players on that team went on to play at the college level and may not have had the opportunity if they were at the lower level. This was 3 season's ago. Winning meant they stayed at the higher level, allowing the 5 to continue to get interest from the college's they now play for.
 
Assuming the Coach is respectful of his roster players field time, my experience with guest playing has been very positive. Parents of top teams appreciate work ethic and good teamwork from a guest player.

If the guest is a selfish hotshot or the team is already having internal problems with play time, that's where I see parents getting mad.
 
Situation: Local club maintains "pool players" that are essentially a practice squad that does not go to competitions. For a recent tournament, one of the rostered players on the team (U10) was not able to attend. The team rosters 12 players for U10 (7v7). For this tournament they brought a pool player onto the roster in place of the absent player. Said pool player ended up playing more than many regular rostered players causing much consternation. Pool player is a good (humble) kid that works hard in practice (maybe harder than any other player) and has surpassed many of those regular players from a technical standpoint. Pool players pay half the monthly fee as the regular players.

Question: From the outside, what are your feelings on this?
 
soloyosh said:
Situation: Local club maintains "pool players" that are essentially a practice squad that does not go to competitions. For a recent tournament, one of the rostered players on the team (U10) was not able to attend. The team rosters 12 players for U10 (7v7). For this tournament they brought a pool player onto the roster in place of the absent player. Said pool player ended up playing more than many regular rostered players causing much consternation. Pool player is a good (humble) kid that works hard in practice (maybe harder than any other player) and has surpassed many of those regular players from a technical standpoint. Pool players pay half the monthly fee as the regular players.

Question: From the outside, what are your feelings on this?
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What was the understanding going with this club (why have pool vs non-pool players)?
Why did the club feel the need to add a player for a 7v7 tournament when the team had 11 available? Seems like plenty of subs already.
My daughter guest played last year, a lot, but she is a FT goalie and didn't take field time away from any kid already on the roster. It is a delicate situation at best. I don't know how I feel about it until I know more about the whole pool vs non-pool players.
 
Pool players at u10. I would say yikes.
The economic side of me though thinks it's a creative way to fill the vacation and summer gaps while still fielding a strong team.
As far as the parents reaction unfortunately that will become a greater issue as they age and now that the model is changing even more there will be a significant difference between an A team player and the rest.
Moving forward those players in DA 2004 and above won't be able to guest as we have for many years.
As far as the youngers though again interesting approach to getting a full roster
 
soloyosh said:
Situation: Local club maintains "pool players" that are essentially a practice squad that does not go to competitions. For a recent tournament, one of the rostered players on the team (U10) was not able to attend. The team rosters 12 players for U10 (7v7). For this tournament they brought a pool player onto the roster in place of the absent player. Said pool player ended up playing more than many regular rostered players causing much consternation. Pool player is a good (humble) kid that works hard in practice (maybe harder than any other player) and has surpassed many of those regular players from a technical standpoint. Pool players pay half the monthly fee as the regular players.

Question: From the outside, what are your feelings on this?
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It's becoming more common as kids who are not good enough to be on a team yet, but want to be coached by particular coach. It's a win-win for the club, coach and player. It exists at many clubs at all ages and levels. In DA they have DP players (development players), in clubs they have "pool" and "training" players. Kids get better at training, so it's not unusual they can become better than any rostered player. The only problem with this scenario is whether kids and their parents can live with less games.
 
soloyosh said:
Question: From the outside, what are your feelings on this?
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Similar to the question in the original post, my feelings are that anytime you have non-rostered players come in and play with a team, it can of course be a delicate situation. Parent and player egos need to be considered and expectations managed. If the coach is a good communicator and everyone knows the purpose and goal for bringing in the other players, then there will be less conflict. It doesn't matter if the coach is bringing in higher caliber players with the only intent for winning a game or if the coach is recruiting for next season, or if the coach is simply filling holes. As long as the guests and the regulars know what is going on, it shouldn't be an issue. My player has been in all of those situations above and never seen a problem. I don't fully understand the "pool" player program at your club, but it sounds like the coach is preparing to add the pool player to the regular squad, perhaps at the cost of one of the regulars. That's how sports works and it's just one of those things that the coaches and parents need to navigate with class and respect. The problems only come up when there are hidden agendas, gossip, and lack of transparency.
 
Mystery Train said:
I don't fully understand the "pool" player program at your club, but it sounds like the coach is preparing to add the pool player to the regular squad, perhaps at the cost of one of the regulars.
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It used to be a "one-club town." Now there is competition. Mostly, I think they're just trying to tie up all the players as a starvation tactic.
 
soloyosh said:
...........Said pool player ended up playing more than many regular rostered players causing much consternation. Pool player........works hard in practice (maybe harder than any other player) and has surpassed many of those regular players from a technical standpoint. Pool players pay half the monthly fee as the regular players.

Question: From the outside, what are your feelings on this?
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I think you've answered your own question.

If a player works harder than others, and more technical does it surprise you that the kid played more than others? Just think about it from the coach's perspective....

As for paying half the fee, such is life. There are many kids on regular teams that pay significantly less or nothing (scholarship cases). Just the way club soccer works.

Playing time is earned by players performance and abilities, not by time on the team or payment (whole another subject about buying your way on or not making obligated payments). If the guest player is good or better than the regulars on the team, most coaches will play the better player, regardless.

Over time, said consternations will go away - either players move on or parents accepting it...
 
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