Very sad that coaches view their job as recruiting players to win meaningless youth games vs. developing potential talent.
Gets demoted?
- Thread starter Jamisfoes
- Start date
We've been promoted and demoted heres my take...
A team Parents and to a lesser extent Players can be aweful. They try to setup cliques to exclude others, wont relay info other parents, tell their kids to not pass someone they dont like, etc. All the nonsense gets old quick.
B team Parents are way more fun to be around during the games and at practice.
If your kid is good the coaches will find them. You want to lightly pressure players to do their best but dont be overbearing + dont get overly involved in all the who gets to play for which team drama. I've seen parents go from super arrogant ass to humbled on a B team in the span of 6 months.
Heres what I look for in a team.
1. Competitive
2. Good coach
3. Good parents (not crazy Soccer psychos)
4. Good players
5. League
6. Club
A team Parents and to a lesser extent Players can be aweful. They try to setup cliques to exclude others, wont relay info other parents, tell their kids to not pass someone they dont like, etc. All the nonsense gets old quick.
B team Parents are way more fun to be around during the games and at practice.
If your kid is good the coaches will find them. You want to lightly pressure players to do their best but dont be overbearing + dont get overly involved in all the who gets to play for which team drama. I've seen parents go from super arrogant ass to humbled on a B team in the span of 6 months.
Heres what I look for in a team.
1. Competitive
2. Good coach
3. Good parents (not crazy Soccer psychos)
4. Good players
5. League
6. Club
As I end my time as a father in youth soccer, I will say this is probably the one phrase that makes me see see why youth soccer has a lot to work on to get better. "My dd is Center Mid Fielder and if you want her services then I need it in writing that she gets that spot forever."
Having good team parents is greatly underrated in my opinion. For selfish reasons I want parents that I can shoot sideline bull with and hangout with on out of town trips. I enjoy hanging out with a diverse group of parents that I might not otherwise cross paths with. And like you said, the bad/drama parents influence their kids and create a negative atmosphere among the players.
My kid was demoted from a DA team for a shiny new object despite numerous promises that he had "nothing to worry about". That shiny new object didn't even last a full season and my son is starting on team that is now better than his old team and players from his old team are lining up to play for his current team. I'd be lying if I said that doesn't warm my heart a bit.
I’ve seen players quit after getting demoted. But really the player wasn’t that dedicated to begin with or the player needs to be playing at a different level. Typically the parent feels that the coach was being unfair or not giving their player enough of a chance. At least that’s what I hear being said out loud. Sometimes the player’s reaction to being demoted says a lot about the character of the player. The problem is at the youth ages, everything is also influenced by the parents.
My kid had a teammate on the B team. He was doing ok, the mom really chatted up the coach asking if the player can play on the A team. Coach needed players on the A team anyways so decided to dual roster the kid. Well, on the A team the kid didn’t start games. Two games in a row the coach gave him maybe 30% game time. The third game the coach plays him more than 50% of the game. Mom talks to the coach right after that game and says that the coach is ruining the kid’s self esteem. They leave the club mid-season. They went to another club, playing at a rec level.
My kid had a teammate on the B team. He was doing ok, the mom really chatted up the coach asking if the player can play on the A team. Coach needed players on the A team anyways so decided to dual roster the kid. Well, on the A team the kid didn’t start games. Two games in a row the coach gave him maybe 30% game time. The third game the coach plays him more than 50% of the game. Mom talks to the coach right after that game and says that the coach is ruining the kid’s self esteem. They leave the club mid-season. They went to another club, playing at a rec level.
50%+ playing time for a top flight team is actually a good amount.
That’s great. It’s probably not the general outcome to being demoted? The kids who want to play will keep playing regardless.
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That’s what I thought too. I was confused by the mom’s reaction and what she said. Maybe it was a defense mechanism after seeing that her kid really was not up to it.
The most important thing during a demotion is how parents are with their kids. It's a tough time for a child to go through because there will be lots of self doubt and losses (friendships). Every parent should take time to think about their child's personality and manage it accordingly. Be there for your child in a positive manner.
We've been through the demotes and promotes with our girl and boy. Handled it differently each time but always gave them the option to choose what they wanted to do, stay and fight for another year at the same club in the B team, stay and just play, or leave and make a statement. My daughter chose the stay and fight (and she won that battle). My son chose to leave and make a statement. Worked for him too.
We've been through the demotes and promotes with our girl and boy. Handled it differently each time but always gave them the option to choose what they wanted to do, stay and fight for another year at the same club in the B team, stay and just play, or leave and make a statement. My daughter chose the stay and fight (and she won that battle). My son chose to leave and make a statement. Worked for him too.
Agreed. Very underrated thing to consider because let's be honest, it's our kids' teams but we get to spend a lot of time with their teammates' parents and if they're miserable to be with, it's going to be a very long year.
All of my kid's current teammates' parents are friendly and cordial and a handful I'd consider friends where I would totally keep in touch and hang out even if our kids were not on the same team anymore. It makes early morning trips to Norco or Del Mar or wherever slightly less miserable.
On my kid's team, I'd say there are probably 2-3 fringe players. The coach tries to still give as much playing time as possible. But in a tournament setting or something, gets little playing time. Clearly, they're not on the same level skill wise with the other players to a degree that it's hurting some of the things the team wants to do on the field. It's obvious to the "other parents" but wonder if they know that demotion is possible... because we tend to have blinders on for our own kids.
I'd say one thing though. Kids develop at different paces. The demotion to flight 2 or 3 or whatever doesn't mean in 1 or 2 or 3 years, that kid won't be a key piece on a really good flight 1 team. The main thing is each kid needs to be on a team where he/she is learning and involved in the team. Being "the worst" on the team isn't good for confidence or development.
I've always thought for best development, being on a team where the kid is above average on the team is great. Kid can be integral part of the team but still have a few kids better that can challenge him/her. Of course in practice, on a team, not everyone can be above average (mathematically impossible... like how 100% of us believe we are above average drivers... 50% of you are wrong!
)From what I've seen your chances are better off if you leave the club, but there are always exceptions. At the end of the day it ultimately comes down to the ability of your child. Some coaches are bad at identifying talent or look for particular characteristics, but some kids are just not 1st team material regardless of what their parents think.
Size is often a determining factor which is kind of the American way. Size vs soccer IQ, most coaches are going to choose size as they believe they can teach soccer IQ, which really couldn't be farther from the truth. It's actually easier to improve a player's speed than it is their IQ. The old axiom that "you can't teach speed" is only partially true. IMHO soccer IQ is what really sets players apart as they get older (but that is a biased opinion).
My dd had one coach where he did what he said and he still pissed off parents for getting cut. he did it fair though. He first started with a small roster of 16 kids. He gave all kids a half during the season and during all tournaments, even the big ones. He would also do a evaluation half way so you could get a feel where your player is at. Is was the coaches opinion but that's all that should matter. He said the reason for equal play at younger ages is to be fair and be able to tell parent your kid got a chance and did not meet MY standard of what I am looking for for next season. State Cup was played to win and you could see the writing on the wall. All tryouts came after the season. If you didnt play much at State Cup, you were best to look for another team because the coach was bringing in fresh faces that he wants. He did it the best, moo and was always honest, even when it hurt the ego of the rich parentsOn my kid's team, I'd say there are probably 2-3 fringe players. The coach tries to still give as much playing time as possible. But in a tournament setting or something, gets little playing time. Clearly, they're not on the same level skill wise with the other players to a degree that it's hurting some of the things the team wants to do on the field. It's obvious to the "other parents" but wonder if they know that demotion is possible... because we tend to have blinders on for our own kids.
I'd say one thing though. Kids develop at different paces. The demotion to flight 2 or 3 or whatever doesn't mean in 1 or 2 or 3 years, that kid won't be a key piece on a really good flight 1 team. The main thing is each kid needs to be on a team where he/she is learning and involved in the team. Being "the worst" on the team isn't good for confidence or development.
I've always thought for best development, being on a team where the kid is above average on the team is great. Kid can be integral part of the team but still have a few kids better that can challenge him/her. Of course in practice, on a team, not everyone can be above average (mathematically impossible... like how 100% of us believe we are above average drivers... 50% of you are wrong!
My dd had one coach where he did what he said and he still pissed off parents for getting cut. he did it fair though. He first started with a small roster of 16 kids. He gave all kids a half during the season and during all tournaments, even the big ones. He would also do a evaluation half way so you could get a feel where your player is at. Is was the coaches opinion but that's all that should matter. He said the reason for equal play at younger ages is to be fair and be able to tell parent your kid got a chance and did not meet MY standard of what I am looking for for next season. State Cup was played to win and you could see the writing on the wall. All tryouts came after the season. If you didnt play much at State Cup, you were best to look for another team because the coach was bringing in fresh faces that he wants. He did it the best, moo and was always honest, even when it hurt the ego of the rich parents
How does that work now with Youngers where tryouts are happening RIGHT NOW... and State Cup games go into late Feb/early March..?
I believe in future years SoCal League is trying to implement a tryout window for the clubs.. but it's a bit of a timeline mess this year.
You need to be trying out now if you want to change teams... and get verbal commitments and hope that it still stands in Feb...
I can see that really hurting the fringe players on a team who didn't try out... and didn't see the writing on the wall... and come March, be surprised.
I really like the idea of a "progress report" for the kid mid-season. And a notice in Nov/Dec that the kid is not going to stay on the current team... that way kids can accept the demotion or try out on some new teams if they wish.
I don't like how the clubs don't tell you anything... and then parents/kids try out with other clubs in secret... and it's all hush hush...
Couldn't agree more. You can't be faster than a ball. I really enjoy watching matches with smart soccer players. Recently watched a YouTube video of Thomas Mueller and his ability to be always at the right place at the right time and make the right passes...
I'm so sorry nothing has changed for the better. I think its worse now. It's a complete mess and not good for the customer or the one doing all the hard work. The winners are easy to spot. We need serious regulations and rules of engagement. My kid is aging out soon. I'm always willing to share my experience with those who want real change. I get emails from all the clubs and their having tryouts for 4 year olds now for 12 month soccer development.
This is a story I shared with my kids early in our journey into competitive sports:
"In 2001, 13-year-old Stephen Curry’s AAU basketball team lost a big game. “We lost badly, and I played worse,” he writes on the Players’ Tribune. “It really felt like a wake-up call … that I just wasn’t good enough.”
It was that night, in a Holiday Inn Express in Tennessee, that his mom gave him a memorable piece of advice.
She said something along the lines of: “NO ONE gets to write your story but you,” Curry, now 30, recalls. “Not some scouts. Not some tournament. Not these other kids, who might do this better or that better. … None of those people, and none of those things, gets to be the author of your story. Just you. So think real hard about it."
The point is coaches are just someone hired to do a job. Some are good at their job, some are not that good at their job. One coach might think your kid is a top player, another coach might not. There is so much other BS that goes into coaches decisions: pressure to win, parent politics, economics, etc. If your kid is not playing for a coach that values them as a player, go find a coach that does.
Top teams should be mostly filled with highly competitive, committed, coachable players that have future potential, not just current potential. The majority of coaches we have had would prefer this and do try to do that but the external pressures do not always give them that ability.
I'd take a hard working competitive player that is highly coachable over a more "developed" player that only works hard when they are being yelled at any day. So would my kids. The worst thing is driving to LA for a match and half the team are "mailing it in".
"In 2001, 13-year-old Stephen Curry’s AAU basketball team lost a big game. “We lost badly, and I played worse,” he writes on the Players’ Tribune. “It really felt like a wake-up call … that I just wasn’t good enough.”
It was that night, in a Holiday Inn Express in Tennessee, that his mom gave him a memorable piece of advice.
She said something along the lines of: “NO ONE gets to write your story but you,” Curry, now 30, recalls. “Not some scouts. Not some tournament. Not these other kids, who might do this better or that better. … None of those people, and none of those things, gets to be the author of your story. Just you. So think real hard about it."
The point is coaches are just someone hired to do a job. Some are good at their job, some are not that good at their job. One coach might think your kid is a top player, another coach might not. There is so much other BS that goes into coaches decisions: pressure to win, parent politics, economics, etc. If your kid is not playing for a coach that values them as a player, go find a coach that does.
Top teams should be mostly filled with highly competitive, committed, coachable players that have future potential, not just current potential. The majority of coaches we have had would prefer this and do try to do that but the external pressures do not always give them that ability.
I'd take a hard working competitive player that is highly coachable over a more "developed" player that only works hard when they are being yelled at any day. So would my kids. The worst thing is driving to LA for a match and half the team are "mailing it in".
Eagle33
PREMIER
Bingo!
the problem, as you imply, is not the coaches. Most coaches are good people just trying to do the best job they can. the problem is that the system requires them to bring in the win. Teams that lose get demoted, parents leave to go elsewhere, coaches lose their teams and get fired. Teams that get promoted take the best players, win the trophies, attract the big spenders. It's easier to recruit a kid that's already developed at whatever level your team is playing at (which means that kid is usually playing down a level from where they should be, unless you are already playing at the highest academy flight), than to take the years it takes to develop them (years which you may not have anyways if the team explodes or the kids leave).
I worked for a company that gave their hand away on how to get a big fat raise and I scored big time. I then taught others the secret as well. I went to my asshole boss ((I say this now only because he favored the ladies only and we figured out why after he quit or got whacked)) for a raise a few times and he gave me a bull crap reason why I didnt deserve more salary, more commission and more spiffs for being a top door knocker for the company and a damn good at that. I took more no's then anybody in the company. The fact was, he was jealous that my W2 was bigger then his W2 and he didnt want me to have an even bigger one. Total punk sat behind his desk barking out orders all day (("how many business cards did you get today")). So one day I took a call from a head hunter of a competitor. It was insane how much more I could make and any fool would be a fool not to take it. I took it. Oh my gosh. My boss man became so nice and rolled red carpet that he was hiding from me the whole fucking time. I told him to pound sand and it was too late and next time roll the goods out when I'm there. truth be told, he was hogging all the "bonus $$" for his girl friends. The real boss loved me and called me after I quit and had me over to his house. Talk about red carpet treatment. I got promotion to come back and lead the office that the asshole got fired at. True story and one of my all time fun times in life. He was a true Elitist from Road Island.