Division III vs Non-Soccer Dream School (Timing)

soccerobserver said:
I was at the Whittier vs Pacific Lutheran NCAA D3 tournament opening round with family friends. I was impressed with the level of soccer played. No kickball, great athleticism and possession based soccer. At times it was very elegant to watch. I also thought the soccer was at a higher level than what I have seen at many east coast based D3 schools. The Whittier/Pacific Lutheran game was an indication of some serious talent out here the the west coast. My friends said Pomona-Pitzer was even better than Pacific Lutheran who I thought played great soccer.

I am wondering if SoCal D3 schools might be getting the fuzzy end of the lolipop with the low number of placements in the NCAA D3 tournament. For example the NESCAC sent 5 teams (Williams, Tufts, Conn Col, Hamilton and Middlebury) the UAA sent 4 teams (Brandeis, Carnegie Mellon, Uof Chicago and WashU) and the Centennial Conference sent 3 teams (Hopkins, Swarthmore and McDaniel). The SCIAC sent 2 ( Whittier and Cal Lutheran) when maybe they should have 4 slots based on the quality of soccer I saw. I hope Cal Lutheran can advance deep and represent California well.
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They probably do "get the fuzzy end of the lolipop" because they play a double round robin in conference and it looks like they are limited to 18 regular season games (just a quick glance at the standings and it didn't appear that anyone, men or women, played more than 18). It's hard to get an idea of where you slot in nationally when you compete mostly against yourself. If you look at Pomona, their 4 non-conference games were against Chicago, Wash U, Puget Sound, and Fontbonne. They beat Puget Sound (#47) and Fontbonne (#237) while losing to Chicago and Wash U (arguably the top 2 teams in the nation, which is why UAA gets 4).

For a realistic chance at more bids, everyone in the conference would need to commit to playing that kind of schedule so that everyone's strength of schedule would increase. The problem is that a lot of the schools play the local NAIAs and those results don't affect D3 rankings, and therefore don't help anything. Furthermore, it looks like on the women's side, most everyone played CalTech but that didn't count as a conference game, so using one of your non-conference games on CalTech doesn't help you either.

Another big issue is geography. At D3 they try to keep things more regionally based for the NCAA tournament for $ reasons, and the fact that there are so few schools on the west coast is always going to limit the number of bids, right or wrong. The Texas schools get "the fuzzy end of the lolipop" every year as well, with Trinity and Hardin-Simmons regularly squaring off in the second round because of geography.

NCAA Results:
NESCAC - 3-4 (only Williams is still in)
UAA - 7-1 (Brandeis lost to Williams)
Centennial - 3-2 (Hopkins still in)
SCIAC - 1-1-1 (Cal Lutheran still in)

Cal Lutheran's road to the Final Four could go through both Williams and Hopkins this weekend, what a great opportunity to show that more belong!
 
Thanks HOC you make great points. Pomona had an impressive run deep into the tournament last season losing to U of Chicago (ranked as high as #1 this year) in PK's and in freezing cold weather. However like you pointed out Pomona disappointed earlier this season in friendlies vs WashU (#5) and Uof Chicago(#4).

But when I watch the games I ask myself who am I going to believe ? The rankings or my lying eyes? Whittier, Pomona and Cal Lutheran seem much better than many of the east coast teams in the D3 tournament. As you said, maybe this weekend Cal Lu will make the case on the field.
 
soccerobserver said:
Thanks HOC you make great points. Pomona had an impressive run deep into the tournament last season losing to U of Chicago (ranked as high as #1 this year) in PK's and in freezing cold weather. However like you pointed out Pomona disappointed earlier this season in friendlies vs WashU (#5) and Uof Chicago(#4).

But when I watch the games I ask myself who am I going to believe ? The rankings or my lying eyes? Whittier, Pomona and Cal Lutheran seem much better than many of the east coast teams in the D3 tournament. As you said, maybe this weekend Cal Lu will make the case on the field.
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Cal Lutheran also played Christopher Newport and VA Wesleyan earlier and went 1-1 in those matches. Both those teams lost in the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament. Absolutely, these SoCal teams can compete nationally, but when you have Redlands beating Shepherd 20-0, it doesn't help the conference's cause. Even Whittier beating NAIA schools Soka and Providence doesn't help. More teams need to be like Claremont and lose 3-1 to Chicago, that result helps a ton. You look where Claremont finished in the conference and absolutely the conference can compete nationally, but the entire conference has to schedule that way to get the rankings.
 
Clearly lots of talented players on Cal Lutheran, and they should be congratulated for making it to the sweet sixteen. But they were thoroughly outmatched against Williams. Williams had possession most of the game and played attractive soccer. Williams also had an advantage in both athleticism and size. 1-0 at halftime was not indicative of the one sided nature of the game. 4-0 final could have been much worse. Perhaps a bad performance, but it would be reasonable to say that CA D3 schools still have some ground to make up if they want to compete with the best in the East, if this game was the measure. Or perhaps Williams is that good. We shall see.
 
Dos Equis said:
Clearly lots of talented players on Cal Lutheran, and they should be congratulated for making it to the sweet sixteen. But they were thoroughly outmatched against Williams. Williams had possession most of the game and played attractive soccer. Williams also had an advantage in both athleticism and size. 1-0 at halftime was not indicative of the one sided nature of the game. 4-0 final could have been much worse. Perhaps a bad performance, but it would be reasonable to say that CA D3 schools still have some ground to make up if they want to compete with the best in the East, if this game was the measure. Or perhaps Williams is that good. We shall see.
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So it seems. I missed the game so thanks for the commentary. I think that's a reasonable conclusion to draw from such a lopsided score. That and Pomona's disappointing results in the preseason vs WashU and U of Chicago support the same narrative.
 
soccerobserver said:
So it seems. I missed the game so thanks for the commentary. I think that's a reasonable conclusion to draw from such a lopsided score. That and Pomona's disappointing results in the preseason vs WashU and U of Chicago support the same narrative.
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The Hopkins vs. Williams match will tell the story of just how good Williams is. If they control the game in a similar fashion as today and put up 2 or more goals against a strong JHU defense, then perhaps it is just Williams' year, and Cal Lutheran ran into a gauntlet.

But I think it more likely that D3 has a stronger appeal in the east coast, perhaps because there are less state schools competing for players than we have in the west. The D3 programs are higher in the pecking order.
 
You make good points...I have seen Hopkins play online and in person several times in the last two seasons. They lost two of the best players in D3 from last season and are not nearly as potent this season although their record might suggest otherwise. In my view their forwards are not in the top of the D3 peer group. Now that I have written this they are more likely to embarrass me and beat Williams 4-0...both coaches Rank among the most accomplished coaches in the NCAA tho so I can't count out JHU despite my assement...
 
soccerobserver said:
You make good points...I have seen Hopkins play online and in person several times in the last two seasons. They lost two of the best players in D3 from last season and are not nearly as potent this season although their record might suggest otherwise. In my view their forwards are not in the top of the D3 peer group. Now that I have written this they are more likely to embarrass me and beat Williams 4-0...both coaches Rank among the most accomplished coaches in the NCAA tho so I can't count out JHU despite my assement...
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You are correct, for the past 8-10 seasons or so Hopkins has had that one impact forward who scored 20+ goals, including Kronick and Van de Loo
-- both went on to play professionally. Expectations were lower this year. But they brought both TCNJ and Messiah to OT, their only losses are in OT/Pks, and their defense is among the best in D3 in goals against (Williams is better). As for their current forwards, they have a freshman who is a former Surf player, and rumors are she had a D1 scholarship to Villanova, but went to JHU instead. She scored twice today. Freshman of the year in conference and unanimous first team. They also start 7 seniors.

My view, JHU still represents the standard (not the best) for a top 20 D3 program. If Williams dominates tomorrow, Cal Lutheran is in good company. I think they may. Not because JHU is not still the standard, but becuase Williams is home, and they were that good against Cal Lutheran.
 
Dos Equis said:
You are correct, for the past 8-10 seasons or so Hopkins has had that one impact forward who scored 20+ goals, including Kronick and Van de Loo
-- both went on to play professionally. Expectations were lower this year. But they brought both TCNJ and Messiah to OT, their only losses are in OT/Pks, and their defense is among the best in D3 in goals against (Williams is better). As for their current forwards, they have a freshman who is a former Surf player, and rumors are she had a D1 scholarship to Villanova, but went to JHU instead. She scored twice today. Freshman of the year in conference and unanimous first team. They also start 7 seniors.

My view, JHU still represents the standard (not the best) for a top 20 D3 program. If Williams dominates tomorrow, Cal Lutheran is in good company. I think they may. Not because JHU is not still the standard, but becuase Williams is home, and they were that good against Cal Lutheran.
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Williams beats Johns Hopkins 3-0. Helps put Cal Lutheran's result in perspective.
 
HouseofCards said:
Williams beats Johns Hopkins 3-0. Helps put Cal Lutheran's result in perspective.
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Williams did indeed dominate Hopkins for around 30-40 minutes of the game (around 15-29 per half) the way they dominated Cal Lutheran for 90. And Williams finishing was clinical. However, around 20 minutes was pretty even, and another 30 Hopkins was having their way. Major difference is Hopkins could not finish. JHU missed a PK, had one off the inside post, and two open point blank shots from inside 6 blocked by bodies in the way. I think Hopkins outshot them, and both teams had over 15 shots.

Williams was the better team, but they did not look like the invincible team Cal Lutheran seemed to face.
 
Hopkins' coach has a long and distinguished history that few D3 coaches have surpassed. However, I don't think the current team is nearly as strong as they were with Van de Loo before she graduated last year. I think she took over 100 shots last season and scored a gaudy 25 goals in her final year. JHU dominates the cupcake and kickball teams in Centennial but had a tough time with Centennnial Conference Tournament Champs Swarthmore as well as McDaniel who finished in fourth place during the league play. This is not to say JHU is not a solid team but that I think Cal Lu and Pomona Teams could be at a similar level.
 
The website still has her listed as the HC so you must be really inside !

When I watched Whittier I was impressed by three of the senior starters. I imagine replacing them will be a challenge. Not sure if anyone in the bench can play at their level.
 
Will be interesting to see if they hire the asst there. Replacing the seniors I agree will be a challenge. Will be interesting to see the D3 landscape in southern california next fall.
 
Dos Equis said:
Williams did indeed dominate Hopkins for around 30-40 minutes of the game (around 15-29 per half) the way they dominated Cal Lutheran for 90. And Williams finishing was clinical. However, around 20 minutes was pretty even, and another 30 Hopkins was having their way. Major difference is Hopkins could not finish. JHU missed a PK, had one off the inside post, and two open point blank shots from inside 6 blocked by bodies in the way. I think Hopkins outshot them, and both teams had over 15 shots.

Williams was the better team, but they did not look like the invincible team Cal Lutheran seemed to face.
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So Williams wins it all in the Final vs U. of Chicago. I think Williams has collected 2 of the past 3 College Cup Championship Trophies. Well at least Cal Lutheran can say they were eliminated by the eventual Champion.
 
My middle child gave up Soccer and attended a top choice school. She’s doing fine and busy with clubs, work and school. My eldest played soccer DI
and was burnt out in Soccer in the end. Soccer payed for his school and he enjoyed his teammates, travel and coaches. He felt DI time commitment during his college years were more than he anticipated. Our youngest, who is more focused academically went with a DIII school. The small class sizes and professors made it easy to get through in 4 years and he landed a very good job after graduation due to the small school support system. He enjoyed D3 soccer. It’s still competitive and serious, it was just better to play D3 and go for the education at a smaller school.
Lots of options to consider.
 
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