Dirty players

[jrcaesar]

how about the fact that the fact the striker got slammed off the ball on his or her first attempt at a break away makes them hesitate to do it again and that reluctance gives you a tactical advantage. That's smart soccer.

Which is a tactical foul, and possibly a caution (definitely cautionable at U14; few will card at U9), if happened as you describe it. "Slammed" is at least careless, probably reckless and maybe with excessive force. And again, this is the point of the thread. So you are agreeing by this statement is ok at this age?

 

[Sped]

Which is a tactical foul, and possibly a caution (definitely cautionable at U14; few will card at U9), if happened as you describe it. "Slammed" is at least careless, probably reckless and maybe with excessive force. And again, this is the point of the thread. So you are agreeing by this statement is ok at this age?

yes.

 

[timbuck]

How would you suggest this be taught to a 9 year old?
Coach: "Suzie, if the fast girl gets the ball in open space, you need to smash her into the ground. Just make sure you're not in the penalty area.

Suzie: "But coach, what if I hurt her?"

Coach: "What if she scores?"

Go Team!!!

 

[Sped]

How would you suggest this be taught to a 9 year old?
Coach: "Suzie, if the fast girl gets the ball in open space, you need to smash her into the ground. Just make sure you're not in the penalty area.

Suzie: "But coach, what if I hurt her?"

Coach: "What if she scores?"

Go Team!!!

I'm suggesting it's not being taught. I'm also suggesting that at U9, there really aren't dirty players, just players who may be a bit rougher than others.

 

[wildcat66]

I don't think it is a matter of teaching it specifically. It is a matter of not discouraging it when it is figured out by the player. The girl that asks "what if I hurt her" is or probably not that aggressive middle back that you will want in that position. It is as simple as saying, "don't let that girl get past you." I always believe as long as you are going for the ball, collateral damage is OK, so no need for caution.

 

[buzzsaw]

How about a GU14 team that has three cautions when six of 12 teams have zero cautions? How about one player that has two of the three cautions? What does the mob think?
In five matches.

 

[TangoCity]

I am glad most of you in this thread are not referees.

 

[espola]

How about a GU14 team that has three cautions when six of 12 teams have zero cautions? How about one player that has two of the three cautions? What does the mob think?
In five matches.

Since some referees give cautions for untucked jerseys, I would have to know more about the circumstances.

 

[zebrafish]

How would you suggest this be taught to a 9 year old?
Coach: "Suzie, if the fast girl gets the ball in open space, you need to smash her into the ground. Just make sure you're not in the penalty area.

Suzie: "But coach, what if I hurt her?"

Coach: "What if she scores?"

Go Team!!!

My theory-- I think it comes from a combination of: parent suggestion, +/- prior treatment by other kids/siblings, +/- coach who doesn't address the overly aggressive player or provide specific enough information about the lines between right/wrong in physical play

I think coaches tend to turn the other way mentally. Perhaps they think it isn't their job to referee how their own kids play during games-- perhaps they think the referee is the one. Perhaps they fear backlash by the kid's parent(s) who are their paying customer. Maybe they just don't care. Clearly, we see people who think that "go for the ball" with "collateral damage" is just fine. Sad, but I think this is true.

Really wish I could post the video clips of this particular player. Two hits from behind with shoulder/elbow to the back (nowhere near ball). Both hits knock dribbling player off their feet and sprawling onto ground. One roundhouse/uppercut to face hitting kid across the jaw with forearm. Last hit, the ref comes and talks to kid briefly. No card. She smiles at him. Sociopath in the making.

 

[outside!]

As the players get older, the so called "dirty" players usually get humbled when they run up against a team that is bigger, faster, stronger and sometimes better. Soccer is a team sport. A dirty play that is not seen by the ref has a way of coming back on the player in question. Some players grow out of playing dirty due to the fact they can't get away with it anymore. Some of these players just quit when they aren't the toughest player on the field anymore and they get tired of getting all their karma back.

 

[wildcat66]

Go eat a salad zebrafish, I am going to throw another steak on the grill and crack open another Budweiser. I say again....buck up sissypants!

 

[jrcaesar]

How about a GU14 team that has three cautions when six of 12 teams have zero cautions? How about one player that has two of the three cautions? What does the mob think?
In five matches

There's nothing wrong with earning cautions.* Also depends on who the referee is that day, and whether the game demands cards for game management. Earning or deserving send-offs is another matter entirely.

* - unless there's a penalty or suspension for accumulating cards. Even then, often a tactical foul is the correct soccer play. Just not at U9.

 

[espola]

There's nothing wrong with earning cautions.* Also depends on who the referee is that day, and whether the game demands cards for game management. Earning or deserving send-offs is another matter entirely.

* - unless there's a penalty or suspension for accumulating cards. Even then, often a tactical foul is the correct soccer play. Just not at U9.

In league play, all the way up to NCAA, accumulated yellow cards may eventually lead to a game suspension and possible loss of position in the league standings table.

 

[mahrez]

Accumulation of yellow cards. Should those result in suspension? If so after how many 3,4,6 or ? At what age u13,+?

 

[Striker17]

I would agree that at 9 some times it's a body control issue.
I would love to see the tape- privately. I have also seen this at 9-11 and had concerns. My daughter is the opposite she gets pummeled and jumps up like nothing happened which drives me crazy sometimes.
What has been fun to watch is the evolution of the fouls. We went from linebacker pushing to more subtle jersey pulling backs and other players lifting her off the field when the refs aren't looking. I hear it only gets more interesting as they progress

 

[Torros]

Another thread and a recent game with my GU9 daughter got me thinking about dealing with dirty players. I think the days are gone for my own kid where games are clean and kids generally follow the rules. Nothing like watching a 9 year old girl lay an opponent out with a forearm across a kid's face, then 5 minutes later run up behind a kid and lay a shoulder in the back to blow up a player without coming anywhere near the ball, then 5 minutes later lay a shoulder into a third player and knock them 4 feet sideways-- to make your jaw hit the floor.

As a coach, what have you done (or seen your coach do) and has it been helpful when you face a player or team that plays outside the boundaries?

Is it different for girls vs boys? Does age matter?

Obviously, without disrupting the game, little can be done as a sideline parent.

Have you taught your child anything you feel is helpful in dealing with this? Or does everyone have to just try and survive and hope for a decent ref who is willing/able/competent to deal with the issue.

There are no dirty players. Only coaches who allow players to continue to play dirty instead of sitting them and explaining that what they did is wrong. The same goes for Refs. There are some horrible, lazy refs who don't want to take the time to fill out the required paperwork on a RC so instead they just let them play on.

 

[buzzsaw]

Espola you are redicolous! We are not talking about untucked jerseys. We are talking about arms up plays from behind and grabbing that goes un-called. We are talking forearms and elbows to the face. If one player has two cautions in five matches there's an issue. Or do we just wait till something really bad happens?

 

[meatsweats]

I don't believe any U9 coach is teaching true "fouling" behavior. I DO believe that referees treat the girls game different. If a boy comes in late or takes a player down with no ball contact, it's automatic. Bam! Foul, and probably a yellow. Girls, they are late all the time. And nothing.

My DD has had two "major" injuries. Both related to late hits where she beat the girl on the ball. Both incidence were fouls to the back. retaliation or trying to stop the play? No matter, both were fouls called. Neither were yellows, let alone red. Never did DD embellish. Both times she should have!!!! JS. Girls don't do a good job "getting fouled". They act too tough for their own good. It is an art, after all. Embellishment on the pitch. Hate to say it, but true.

 

[Porkchop]

My DD plays U16, some of the things I have seen in games just blow me away...girls tend to pull jerseys, pinch, lock arms, knee the other players and literally pull players down especially towards the end of the game when things get desperate/heated. My DD is short and stocky and rarely gets pushed around. A lot of players think because she is short that they can knock her down. I have literally seen girls try to push my daughter from the back with full extension of their arms and they are the ones who go down while my DD is still standing and dribbling the ball and then cry foul hoping to get a call. I believe the girls are more physical and play more dirty than the boys because they are sneaky as far as throwing hits and some even know the right angle to hide it from the ref's sight lines. But I do believe some of the rough play is coached, too...

I do agree that some of the rough play is coached, just this pass weekend a Ref spoke to a coach about him yelling defend yourself, when the other team was winning and playing clean.

 

[LASTMAN14]

Another thread and a recent game with my GU9 daughter got me thinking about dealing with dirty players. I think the days are gone for my own kid where games are clean and kids generally follow the rules. Nothing like watching a 9 year old girl lay an opponent out with a forearm across a kid's face, then 5 minutes later run up behind a kid and lay a shoulder in the back to blow up a player without coming anywhere near the ball, then 5 minutes later lay a shoulder into a third player and knock them 4 feet sideways-- to make your jaw hit the floor.

As a coach, what have you done (or seen your coach do) and has it been helpful when you face a player or team that plays outside the boundaries?

Is it different for girls vs boys? Does age matter?

Obviously, without disrupting the game, little can be done as a sideline parent.

Have you taught your child anything you feel is helpful in dealing with this? Or does everyone have to just try and survive and hope for a decent ref who is willing/able/competent to deal with the issue.

Cant's say if overtly physical play (dirty play) is coached or not, however I do think it is encouraged. This last Sunday a particular player on the other team clearly fouled several (5) of the players on my daughters team from behind and none of them were called by the ref. This young ladies father called out to her and then gave her a thumbs for one of her fouls. The ref then turned to this parent and called him by his first name. He (Ref) then went on to ask if he taught his daughter how to foul like this...