Did anyone catch the US Soccer President Candidates Forum from Philadelphia?

JoeBieber said:
Yes, so? Making 37,000 new US Soccer scouts is an incredibly idiotic response to that.
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The quality of play in HS soccer is way below the level of play at the top of club soccer that it would be a complete waste of time and resources. Instead they should be focused at an earlier age and include alternative leagues especially the Hispanic leagues to find talent they are missing.
 
timbuck said:
Many of the candidates mentioned high School soccer as being something that should be more important.
Surprisingly, nobody that I heard mentioned anything about the college game. A few mentioned scholarship stuff.
But nobody said anything about how making changes to our college game could impact the national team and domestic league play.
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Another politics explanation - colleges are part of the NCAA and not under the FIFA/USSF umbrella. Therefore, no one from the college world is a voter in the USSF elections. So, promising changes to the college game is risky. Promising things colleges will like won't get the candidates more votes and promising changes they wouldn't like might upset some non-college voters who have some interest and/or involvement in the college game.
 
There’s no point scouting high school players until there’s an infrastructure in place to get kids a lot of touches in game conditions (futsal, street soccer) and proper coaching (coerver drills) when they are young. Unless these 2 conditions are met the kids that are being scouted will have fundamental deficiencies with ball mastery that no amount of athleticism can cover up.
 
JJP said:
There’s no point scouting high school players until there’s an infrastructure in place to get kids a lot of touches in game conditions (futsal, street soccer) and proper coaching (coerver drills) when they are young. Unless these 2 conditions are met the kids that are being scouted will have fundamental deficiencies with ball mastery that no amount of athleticism can cover up.
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I think you are misunderstanding the realities of HS soccer is some of our rural and poorer communities. You have kids that play HS and local adult leagues because they can't afford the "pay to play" system. They play in the street and the park with their buddies, uncles, older brothers, etc.. They are outside the ODP and DA eyes because they don't play Flight 1 travel ball and nobody is visiting these parks and neighborhoods. They don't need coerver drills because they get their touches by playing daily for the love of the sports like their European and Latin American cousins. They live in cities, towns and communities that are often very poor and HS soccer is the first real opportunity to play organized ball.

What we need is an awareness by qualified HS coaches (not the science teacher ala soccer coach) to identify talent that may be slipping through the cracks and communicate the location of that talent to the Federation.
 
As mentioned, each HS might have one or two players that have slipped through the cracks. I don't think they are saying the HS teams are going to be as good as Flight 1 teams, but they may have that one special player that should get the attention of US soccer.
 
JJP said:
There’s no point scouting high school players until there’s an infrastructure in place to get kids a lot of touches in game conditions (futsal, street soccer) and proper coaching (coerver drills) when they are young. Unless these 2 conditions are met the kids that are being scouted will have fundamental deficiencies with ball mastery that no amount of athleticism can cover up.
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I'm with you on this but things are already changing for the younger generation coming up and not US soccer making the changes.

These huge training facilitys are popping up throughout the nation that offer pick up Futsal multiple nights a week and high intensity training for peanuts on the dollar with actual proven professionals coaching with out fake accents and bad looking track suits.

I'm interested in seeing results over the next 10 years because these facilities are hosting and catering to the youth. If your a committed athlete and grind from 6-16 years old in that type of environment, how can you not improve.
 
Chalklines said:
I'm with you on this but things are already changing for the younger generation coming up and not US soccer making the changes.

These huge training facilitys are popping up throughout the nation that offer pick up Futsal multiple nights a week and high intensity training for peanuts on the dollar with actual proven professionals coaching with out fake accents and bad looking track suits.

I'm interested in seeing results over the next 10 years because these facilities are hosting and catering to the youth. If your a committed athlete and grind from 6-16 years old in that type of environment, how can you not improve.
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Where?
 
MWN said:
I think you are misunderstanding the realities of HS soccer is some of our rural and poorer communities. You have kids that play HS and local adult leagues because they can't afford the "pay to play" system. They play in the street and the park with their buddies, uncles, older brothers, etc.. They are outside the ODP and DA eyes because they don't play Flight 1 travel ball and nobody is visiting these parks and neighborhoods. They don't need coerver drills because they get their touches by playing daily for the love of the sports like their European and Latin American cousins. They live in cities, towns and communities that are often very poor and HS soccer is the first real opportunity to play organized ball.

What we need is an awareness by qualified HS coaches (not the science teacher ala soccer coach) to identify talent that may be slipping through the cracks and communicate the location of that talent to the Federation.

JJP-
There’s no point scouting high school players until there’s an infrastructure in place to get kids a lot of touches in game conditions (futsal, street soccer) and proper coaching (coerver drills) when they are young. Unless these 2 conditions are met the kids that are being scouted will have fundamental deficiencies with ball mastery that no amount of athleticism can cover up.
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I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle- There is some amazing talent not playing club soccer and they need exposure. However, as JJP stated almost all of that talent have extreme flaws in their game due to only playing and not getting proper coaching (sadly many club players too but not as many)-

deficiencies in uncoached players that is hard to correct at the HS age-

Single footed player- There has been a lot of debate about single footed players so to clarify- Players that is almost unwilling to play with their weak foot- If they over rely on their dominant foot they cannot make it at the next level. Almost all players favor a foot and its OK to have a strongly dominant foot but one must be able to be at least proficient with both feet in today's game.

Ability to properly collect a ball- They technically have never been forced to play across their body on most touches and it slows down play even for the best players. This often goes back to the above statement about a dominant foot.

proper scanning of the field- LESS of an issue for those that just play and dont have formal training- BUT many player that havent been coached well have tunnel vision and that is hard to break. This one is one of the top indicators of next level success

Unspoken issue- Understanding commitment etc. - It takes training and discipline over time to ensure a player is willing to work, be early not just on time and to make training a priority.
There is so much talent from all walks of life that that don't understand this one. One must learn to be committed at an early age or its hard to break.
 
galaxydad said:
I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle- There is some amazing talent not playing club soccer and they need exposure. However, as JJP stated almost all of that talent have extreme flaws in their game due to only playing and not getting proper coaching (sadly many club players too but not as many)-

deficiencies in uncoached players that is hard to correct at the HS age-

Single footed player- There has been a lot of debate about single footed players so to clarify- Players that is almost unwilling to play with their weak foot- If they over rely on their dominant foot they cannot make it at the next level. Almost all players favor a foot and its OK to have a strongly dominant foot but one must be able to be at least proficient with both feet in today's game.

Ability to properly collect a ball- They technically have never been forced to play across their body on most touches and it slows down play even for the best players. This often goes back to the above statement about a dominant foot.

proper scanning of the field- LESS of an issue for those that just play and dont have formal training- BUT many player that havent been coached well have tunnel vision and that is hard to break. This one is one of the top indicators of next level success

Unspoken issue- Understanding commitment etc. - It takes training and discipline over time to ensure a player is willing to work, be early not just on time and to make training a priority.
There is so much talent from all walks of life that that don't understand this one. One must learn to be committed at an early age or its hard to break.
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I think “commitment” to the game is more important than coaching. And growing up in an inner-city soccer culture probably does more for vision/awareness than playing on a team that spends $300 every year on new Nike uniforms and has a coach with a resume of kid that have gone on to play in college.

Not quite the same, but I don’t think Gabriel Jesus had an A licensed coach at the age of 12. He seems to be doing ok.
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/g...b&utm_medium=kw&utm_campaign=RSS&kwp_0=664527
 
MWN said:
I think you are misunderstanding the realities of HS soccer is some of our rural and poorer communities. You have kids that play HS and local adult leagues because they can't afford the "pay to play" system. They play in the street and the park with their buddies, uncles, older brothers, etc.. They are outside the ODP and DA eyes because they don't play Flight 1 travel ball and nobody is visiting these parks and neighborhoods. They don't need coerver drills because they get their touches by playing daily for the love of the sports like their European and Latin American cousins. They live in cities, towns and communities that are often very poor and HS soccer is the first real opportunity to play organized ball.
Click to expand...

I’m going to disagree with you here on Coerver drills. They are extremely efficient and one of the best ways to develop the weaker foot. In countries like the US and Japan, I genuinely believe that Coerver drills are the only way to catch up to countries with a strong soccer culture.

If you grow up and play in the streets of France or Netherlands, the level of play is incredibly high and maybe you can learn just from playing. But in the US, the level of competition is so weak you need to supplement with Coerver drills to build a top player. I also believe that the best players all over the world practice a lot on their own and self-improve with Coerver drills.
 
Whoever is going to be good is going to be good regardless of what Godsend coach they have. Drills, practices and structure are helpful but not everything. Coerver, ODP, ECNL, The Kool-Aid Cup(Pick your flavor), Whatever Showcase, etc are just business gimmicks to get a revenue from the customer (Parents) and has completely rotten the entire soccer system in the US. The kids that used to rely on playing high school to get some sort of exposure to college coaches lost that chance because all these scouts/coaches are sitting on a centralized location that caters to who can afford it.

The 3 highest paying sports in the US rely heavily on high school seasons to determine how goods these kids, but somehow soccer the least paying sport in the US has a business model to centralize recruiting through a horrid pay to play platform. I hope that Martino, Wynalda or Hope Solo gets elected and form a team to unify their ideas.

I see that no one talks about Hope Solo, but she's the one that will break down the bullshit and corruption going on with US Soccer, she calls it as it is and that's what we need.
 
JJP said:
I’m going to disagree with you here on Coerver drills. They are extremely efficient and one of the best ways to develop the weaker foot. In countries like the US and Japan, I genuinely believe that Coerver drills are the only way to catch up to countries with a strong soccer culture.

If you grow up and play in the streets of France or Netherlands, the level of play is incredibly high and maybe you can learn just from playing. But in the US, the level of competition is so weak you need to supplement with Coerver drills to build a top player. I also believe that the best players all over the world practice a lot on their own and self-improve with Coerver drills.
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I'd agree that Coerver drills are a great way to develop the weaker foot. They are also great for building innate ball handling skills (so a player just instinctually does something rather than to stop and think about it). But they, just like banging on a wall or that rotating Ole soccer doohickey someone pointed out, are just tools for an end.

So I think Coerver drills themselves are great, but the problem with the Coerver training program is that it teaches ball handling as the end all, be all of soccer. In actuality it's only a small part. The Coerver pyramid makes it the foundation and relegates finishing and defense to small portions, and the program gives little attention to either. US players (particularly on the men's side, where as someone else pointed out, the change of direction is easier than on the women's side) rely too heavily on skill moves when they should be working on passing and receiving (on both feet) more. And don't even get me started on their goalkeeper program.....
 
coachsamy said:
The 3 highest paying sports in the US rely heavily on high school seasons to determine how goods these kids, but somehow soccer the least paying sport in the US has a business model to centralize recruiting through a horrid pay to play platform. I hope that Martino, Wynalda or Hope Solo gets elected and form a team to unify their ideas.

.
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That's been changing too. Baseball and hockey are firmly on the club model. Basketball is increasingly club, though enough schools still have great coaches that some programs are worth it, particularly out of the private schools. One of the reasons for the change in the model was the result of No Child Left Behind and Common Core...since schools are judged on test results, they are funneling money increasingly into the tested subjects (math/grammar/spelling) and less into discretionary (art, music, sports). So you have science teachers/basketball coaches who neither have the inclination nor the skills to continue their sports education (their salaries in any case aren't set by this) and the schools reluctant to plunk down money on real coaches (unless they are either private or have an established program already supported by the community and community fundraising). Football is changing too, but much more slowly, and has other problems to it as well (see the Friday Night Tykes series). The ability for a sport to thrive in high school after the academic changes seems to be related to whether it has an established community backing already willing to take on the costs. While soccer (having the least community backing) made the transition to the club model the most rapidly, the trend has been there across all sports.
 
timbuck said:
I think “commitment” to the game is more important than coaching. And growing up in an inner-city soccer culture probably does more for vision/awareness than playing on a team that spends $300 every year on new Nike uniforms and has a coach with a resume of kid that have gone on to play in college.

Not quite the same, but I don’t think Gabriel Jesus had an A licensed coach at the age of 12. He seems to be doing ok.
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/g...b&utm_medium=kw&utm_campaign=RSS&kwp_0=664527
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I would be willing to bet he had someone emphasising these points. Don't need an A license coach to insist on these basic thing. Just need someone that pays attention to detail
 
Grace T. said:
So I think Coerver drills themselves are great, but the problem with the Coerver training program is that it teaches ball handling as the end all, be all of soccer. In actuality it's only a small part. The Coerver pyramid makes it the foundation and relegates finishing and defense to small portions, and the program gives little attention to either.
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Well, what’s happening is that the kind of ball handling Coerver drills you can do on your own are pretty much limited to ball handling and 1 v 1. It’s great for little kids because they aren’t going to pass anyway, so they may as well get good at playing keep away with the ball.

To practice the more complicated Coerver passing and receiving drills requires a bunch of skilled players and a coach who knows how to run those kind of drills, basically an academy level team and coach.

It’s why I say kids need to do tons of individual Coerver drills and play as much small sided pickup games as possible to develop their ball mastery and 1 v 1 before the best of them enter academy. Once they enter academy there will be more emphasis on passing, receiving, finishing, shape, etc. There won’t be enough time to catch up on ball mastery.
 
JJP said:
Well, what’s happening is that the kind of ball handling Coerver drills you can do on your own are pretty much limited to ball handling and 1 v 1. It’s great for little kids because they aren’t going to pass anyway, so they may as well get good at playing keep away with the ball.

To practice the more complicated Coerver passing and receiving drills requires a bunch of skilled players and a coach who knows how to run those kind of drills, basically an academy level team and coach.

It’s why I say kids need to do tons of individual Coerver drills and play as much small sided pickup games as possible to develop their ball mastery and 1 v 1 before the best of them enter academy. Once they enter academy there will be more emphasis on passing, receiving, finishing, shape, etc. There won’t be enough time to catch up on ball mastery.
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What flavor was your koolaid?
 
coachsamy said:
Whoever is going to be good is going to be good regardless of what Godsend coach they have. Drills, practices and structure are helpful but not everything. Coerver, ODP, ECNL, The Kool-Aid Cup(Pick your flavor), Whatever Showcase, etc are just business gimmicks to get a revenue from the customer (Parents) and has completely rotten the entire soccer system in the US.
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You have a point but you are off base in bashing Coerver as a money maker. You can get quality soccer DVD sets for less than a $100 where they break down and show you moves, Wall ball drills, cone drills, and these drills work incredibly well. Totally worth the money.

The kids that used to rely on playing high school to get some sort of exposure to college coaches lost that chance because all these scouts/coaches are sitting on a centralized location that caters to who can afford it.

The 3 highest paying sports in the US rely heavily on high school seasons to determine how goods these kids, but somehow soccer the least paying sport in the US has a business model to centralize recruiting through a horrid pay to play platform. I hope that Martino, Wynalda or Hope Solo gets elected and form a team to unify their ideas.

I see that no one talks about Hope Solo, but she's the one that will break down the bullshit and corruption going on with US Soccer, she calls it as it is and that's what we need.
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It’s a total waste of time and money to scout HS soccer. There are so many bad players in HS soccer that the good players can’t even show what they’re capable of.

Hope Solo has a vicious temper and complete lack of self control. She should not be in charge.
 
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