DA...ECNL...where?

[Victoria Quinn]

You could do the exact same things being on a strong Flight 1 or CSL Gold team (and probably SDDA). The only thing DPL has over these leagues is the automatic acceptance into the showcases you mentioned. However, because DA has their own showcases, most strong flight 1 and CSL gold teams will be accepted into these showcases anyway, so any perceived advantage is minimal if at all.

Still much better to have guaranteed acceptance into several high level showcases to be seen by College Coaches in my opinion, them crossing your fingers and hoping that the tournament director deems your CSL, SCSDL
Flight 1 team worthy or good enough to be accepted into the very same Showcases!

 

[Justafan]

Still much better to have guaranteed acceptance into several high level showcases to be seen by College Coaches in my opinion, them crossing your fingers and hoping that the tournament director deems your CSL, SCSDL
Flight 1 team worthy or good enough to be accepted into the very same Showcases!

It's a much higher likelihood than just crossing your fingers. While I'm at it let me give you a real world example. If you look at the 04's (a division I know very well) you have Eagles and LA Premeiere that are clearly not on the same level as your other teams, so what benefit do you get from playing them other than a glorified scrimmage.

I have also seen other posters say there are no options in the San Fernando Valley/Ventura areas. Let me ask you this, which team is better, the DPL team or RSC Salvadorri? I haven't seen the DPL team play, but I'd comfortably put my money on Salvadorri.

 

[Victoria Quinn]

It's a much higher likelihood than just crossing your fingers. While I'm at it let me give you a real world example. If you look at the 04's (a division I know very well) you have Eagles and LA Premeiere that are clearly not on the same level as your other teams, so what benefit do you get from playing them other than a glorified scrimmage.

I have also seen other posters say there are no options in the San Fernando Valley/Ventura areas. Let me ask you this, which team is better, the DPL team or RSC Salvadorri? I haven't seen the DPL team play, but I'd comfortably put my money on Salvadorri.

We can agree to disagree. I don't know much about the 04's. I will tell you from past experience with an older daughter who played on a CSL Premier team that switched over to a top SCSDL Flight 1. (At a time when only ECNL existed, no DA) and was on a first team, of a now top DA club, her team was shut out her junior AND senior year from Vegas, Surf and even the Blues Cup at the time. NOT ACCEPTED. Fortunately the team WAS accepted into Davis and Pleasanton both years, she ended up with offers from a D2 and several D3's and several NAIA schools. (a few lower level D1's interested in her, later in the Spring of her Senior year, but she had already committed to the D3 school at the time) so she ended up at D3. Where the school came up with Grants and Academic money that she earned. (GPA 3.5) And she ended up with a 70% non athletic scholarship on a D3 team that ended up going to Final Four NCAA National Championship her Freshman Year. Her D3 team qualified for the NCAA tournament 3 out of the 4 years she played. Like I said earlier, an incredible experience! One that I would not change. However with my younger, I'm taking that guaranteed exceptance, not hoping for it or wishing for it, based on our experience from the past!

 

[Fact]

Still much better to have guaranteed acceptance into several high level showcases to be seen by College Coaches in my opinion, them crossing your fingers and hoping that the tournament director deems your CSL, SCSDL
Flight 1 team worthy or good enough to be accepted into the very same Showcases!

High level tournaments also have low level brackets . . . Will coaches venture out to a lone field to see a low level team when plenty of mid-tier teams have great unknown and uncommitted players that would be perfect for DII, III and NAIA and are all playing at the same field? I guess we will have to wait and see where these DPL teams are actually placed in tournaments.

However, if I had a high school aged dd and she was not playing on a DA team, I would find the next best team for her to play on (assuming good coaching). One stud on a low team is not going to be able to put forth her best show for college coaches if no one on her team can connect passes, give and go, etc.

 

[Justafan]

We can agree to disagree. I don't know much about the 04's. I will tell you from past experience with an older daughter who played on a CSL Premier team that switched over to a top SCSDL Flight 1. (At a time when only ECNL existed, no DA) and was on a first team, of a now top DA club, her team was shut out her junior AND senior year from Vegas, Surf and even the Blues Cup at the time. NOT ACCEPTED. Fortunately the team WAS accepted into Davis and Pleasanton both years, she ended up with offers from a D2 and several D3's and several NAIA schools. (a few lower level D1's interested in her, later in the Spring of her Senior year, but she had already committed to the D3 school at the time) so she ended up at D3. Where the school came up with Grants and Academic money that she earned. (GPA 3.5) And she ended up with a 70% non athletic scholarship on a D3 team that ended up going to Final Four NCAA National Championship her Freshman Year. Her D3 team qualified for the NCAA tournament 3 out of the 4 years she played. Like I said earlier, an incredible experience! One that I would not change. However with my younger, I'm taking that guaranteed exceptance, not hoping for it or wishing for it, based on our experience from the past!

Your right, other teams don't have automatic acceptance, but chances are very high of getting in with DA doing their own thing. Our team (SGV Surf 04) got into Surf, WCFC, and Blues Cup this year when we didn't last year. The opportunities are there. Plus, there are other ways to get your player noticed, you could have your player guest with a team that is going to those showcases for example.

 

[soccerobserver]

Still much better to have guaranteed acceptance into several high level showcases to be seen by College Coaches in my opinion, them crossing your fingers and hoping that the tournament director deems your CSL, SCSDL
Flight 1 team worthy or good enough to be accepted into the very same Showcases!

VQ the good/great coaches in Csl and scdsl usually have a long track record of getting their teams into the top showcases. I might argue that Being with a great coach is better than having an "unearned" priviledge of guaranteed entry if the coaching is not excellent. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Simisoccerfan]

It's a much higher likelihood than just crossing your fingers. While I'm at it let me give you a real world example. If you look at the 04's (a division I know very well) you have Eagles and LA Premeiere that are clearly not on the same level as your other teams, so what benefit do you get from playing them other than a glorified scrimmage.

I have also seen other posters say there are no options in the San Fernando Valley/Ventura areas. Let me ask you this, which team is better, the DPL team or RSC Salvadorri? I haven't seen the DPL team play, but I'd comfortably put my money on Salvadorri.

The no other options in the SF/Ventura area comments are really direct at the 02's and above. Your 04's are what in 8th grade? I personally don't think there should be the DA/ECNL/or DPL for 8th graders. Heck more than half of the 8th grader girls soccer players I know where not even playing soccer any more by their junior year. Plus unless your kid is the second coming no one is looking at them at showcases yet (nor should they be). When your kid is in 8th grade it should be all about their development and making sure soccer is still fun. That they have a passion for it. Otherwise when they get older and start making their own decisions they will no longer be playing.

 

[Victoria Quinn]

VQ the good/great coaches in Csl and scdsl usually have a long track record of getting their teams into the top showcases. I might argue that Being with a great coach is better than having an "unearned" priviledge of guaranteed entry if the coaching is not excellent. Just my 2 cents.

Can speak for all DPL programs. The program that my daughter is on amazing has an Coach, great Coaching staff (multiple A licenses and present at most DPL games) we have 3-4 DA Coaches at many games on our bench. Director often there and speaks at half time and after the game. We were low level Bracket at Surf and Davis. Still had multiple College Coaches on sidelines for multiple games and several letters after Surf to my daughter from Coaches. So they did venture out to the non top bracket fields, they did watch our players. So right now, I am very happy my daughter is on a DPL team that practices 20 minutes from my house

 

[timbuck]

The no other options in the SF/Ventura area comments are really direct at the 02's and above. Your 04's are what in 8th grade? I personally don't think there should be the DA/ECNL/or DPL for 8th graders. Heck more than half of the 8th grader girls soccer players I know where not even playing soccer any more by their junior year. Plus unless your kid is the second coming no one is looking at them at showcases yet (nor should they be). When your kid is in 8th grade it should be all about their development and making sure soccer is still fun. That they have a passion for it. Otherwise when they get older and start making their own decisions they will no longer be playing.

But then current 05 teams couldn't call themselves "Pre-Academy". Actually, they probably still would.

 

[Victoria Quinn]

Can speak for all DPL programs. The program that my daughter is on has an amazing Coach, great Coaching staff (multiple A licenses and present at most DPL games) we have 3-4 DA Coaches at many games on our bench. Director often there and speaks at half time and after the game. We were low level Bracket at Surf and Davis. Still had multiple College Coaches on sidelines for multiple games and several letters after Surf to my daughter from Coaches. So they did venture out to the non top bracket fields, they did watch our players. So right now, I am very happy my daughter is on a DPL team that practices 20 minutes from my house

Oh and by the way...has Deveopled tremendously under the DPL.

 

[LadiesMan217]

Can speak for all DPL programs. The program that my daughter is on has an amazing Coach, great Coaching staff (multiple A licenses and present at most DPL games) we have 3-4 DA Coaches at many games on our bench. Director often there and speaks at half time and after the game. We were low level Bracket at Surf and Davis. Still had multiple College Coaches on sidelines for multiple games and several letters after Surf to my daughter from Coaches. So they did venture out to the non top bracket fields, they did watch our players. So right now, I am very happy my daughter is on a DPL team that practices 20 minutes from my house

Oh and by the way...has Deveopled tremendously under the DPL.

Well that narrows down the team to 1 club. Great choice for your DD even if they don't have the best players and win many games - they will improve. Don't let standings change your choice of clubs - your DD is getting some of the best training she will receive in SoCal.

 

[Justafan]

Can speak for all DPL programs. The program that my daughter is on amazing has an Coach, great Coaching staff (multiple A licenses and present at most DPL games) we have 3-4 DA Coaches at many games on our bench. Director often there and speaks at half time and after the game. We were low level Bracket at Surf and Davis. Still had multiple College Coaches on sidelines for multiple games and several letters after Surf to my daughter from Coaches. So they did venture out to the non top bracket fields, they did watch our players. So right now, I am very happy my daughter is on a DPL team that practices 20 minutes from my house

So you played non DPL teams at both these tournaments right? So those same college coaches and letters you received were available to all the non DPL players and teams correct? That's my point, you didn't need DPL to do all the same things.

 

[Justafan]

Oh and by the way...has Deveopled tremendously under the DPL.

DPL hasn't been around that long. So what kind of development was going on before? Were you with the same club and coach? A good coach is a good coach regardless of title. The DA and DPL coaches should have been doing the same "great" coaching before DA or DPL. Like they say when coaches lose or win based on the level of talent on their team, the coach did not all of a sudden become a genius (in a win), or dumb (in a loss).

 

[Victoria Quinn]

You could do the exact same things being on a strong Flight 1 or CSL Gold team (and probably SDDA). The only thing DPL has over these leagues is the automatic acceptance into the showcases you mentioned. However, because DA has their own showcases, most strong flight 1 and CSL gold teams will be accepted into these showcases anyway, so any perceived advantage is minimal if at all.

I am not so sure about that. My DD has several friends that play Flight 1 SCSDL
(Champion bracket last year that were NOT accepted into Surf this year) so once again...she going to stick with the automatic acceptance for now

 

[Fact]

I am not so sure about that. My DD has several friends that play Flight 1 SCSDL
(Champion bracket last year that were NOT accepted into Surf this year) so once again...she going to stick with the automatic acceptance for now

Surf does not guarantee DPL teams either.

 

[Mystery Train]

Lots of talk about college coaches at "top" tournaments and difficulty being accepted into said tournaments. Thanks to doing a ton of guest playing (advantage GK) my DD has played in every one of these tournaments/showcases listed but never been on an ECNL or DA team (until recently, none in our geography). Last year she did Vegas with a team two age groups higher but in a lower level bracket. This was a Flight 2 SCDSL team, and not even a particularly strong one. By emailing coaches before hand (several players on the team targeted the same coaches/schools to maximize interest) and the club coach who also reached out to the college coaches, they had really good turnout and two of the girls had offers this year from coaches they reached out to. The idea that you must get your kid to get on a "X" team in "Y" league in order to get a college soccer scholarship is part of the entire myth of the club soccer pyramid to begin with. Like @soccerobserver said, focus on finding the coach and team that is capable of raising and maximizing your kid's potential. If that team happens to be a DPL team or a DA team or ECNL, then good for you, you may have about 10% less work to do. If your kid is a power 5 D1 starter level player then she's already been ID'd one way or another by her sophomore year . . . so it doesn't matter what league you're in because you're one of the 1%. For the other 99%, it's going to be up to the parent and kid to get on a particular school's radar, so ironically, it also doesn't really matter what league you're in. Having said all that, I'm not criticizing anyone for being pumped about having a kid on a DA or DPL team. It will be another line to add on the resume. Just don't expect the coaches to come knocking because of that alone. You're still going to have to do the work.

 

[SocalPapa]

With repsect to DPL I feel a lot of the DPL clubs in the SW region felt shut out by ECNL for many years and had to find aleternative ways to showcase talented players in their clubs, i.e. National League in the past. Forming a new league (second teams), which is exactly what ECNL is for the four remaining clubs in SW that are dual DA/ECNL, DPL is a league for these non dual clubs to continue to complete for high level players, to play in a league that is strong, with limited travel. An excellent option for a lot of players and their parents.

As laid out in my post, DA is pretty much just a rival league to ECNL made up mostly of non-ECNL clubs. There are some seemingly weaker ECNL clubs that decided to switch from ECNL to DA. And there were a select few that had illustrious histories with ECNL that decided to take on both DA and ECNL. But it is only in the SW region where a group of DA-only clubs seemed to believe forming the rival DA league wasn't enough to challenge ECNL so decided to try to put their B teams into a closed league. But that league is nothing like ECNL and has only hurt the top divisions of our two main local clubs (CSL and SCDSL), and conversely, the DPL teams themselves.

Competitiveness has been debated by others previously. Let me just say that at the '02 level, which I'm most familiar with, there is no indication that a majority of the DPL teams would be particularly competitive in the Champions level of SCDSL. For example,

- Beach FC has a winning record in DPL, but lost 1-0 to Legends FC West in the California Regional League back in August. Legends FC West, in turn, has a losing SCDSL record (currently in 8th place).

- Real So Cal DPL is undefeated after its first five DPL games with a +13 goal differential, but lost 3-1 in California Regional League back in August to CSL Premier's Fullerton Rangers White. That Rangers team, in turn, tied its CRL game with CDA Slammers FC - HB G02 Elite, which is currently in 5th place of the Champions division.

And so on. You get the idea. If DPL were anything close to ECNL the weakest of them should be able to crush Flight 1 and CSL Premier teams. My daughter has played against ECNL teams and the ECNL teams by and large have been at a completely different level than the Flight 1 and CSL Premier teams she's played against. That includes the former '02 So Cal Blues Holley Flight 1 team whose roster now makes up the bulk of the Blues 01/02 DA team (and which team currently has a winning record in DA ).

It's great that sometimes DA coaches come and watch DPL games. But at the '02 level, I've seen ECNL head coaches (e.g., Strikers and Arsenal) that are also the full time head coaches of the ECNL Reserve teams. It's the same coach and the same system. The structure of DA/DPL makes that overlap harder, not easier, to ever pull off.

And I'm delighted that your daughter is having a good experience DPL and is getting good training. But so are girls on Flight 1 teams. There are a lot of good soccer clubs outside of Southern California. If there were a compelling developmental reason for DA clubs to form secondary closed leagues others would have done it.

My impression is that DPL has only been a detriment so far. But again, if there were some evidence that DPL clubs are investing MORE resources in coaching and facilities than they traditionally had invested in CSL Premier and Flight 1, then I'd be sold. Right now all I see is a new shiny logo, hidden rosters, and a disadvantageous change to scheduling.

 

[Simisoccerfan]

As laid out in my post, DA is pretty much just a rival league to ECNL made up mostly of non-ECNL clubs. There are some seemingly weaker ECNL clubs that decided to switch from ECNL to DA. And there were a select few that had illustrious histories with ECNL that decided to take on both DA and ECNL. But it is only in the SW region where a group of DA-only clubs seemed to believe forming the rival DA league wasn't enough to challenge ECNL so decided to try to put their B teams into a closed league. But that league is nothing like ECNL and has only hurt the top divisions of our two main local clubs (CSL and SCDSL), and conversely, the DPL teams themselves.

Competitiveness has been debated by others previously. Let me just say that at the '02 level, which I'm most familiar with, there is no indication that a majority of the DPL teams would be particularly competitive in the Champions level of SCDSL. For example,

- Beach FC has a winning record in DPL, but lost 1-0 to Legends FC West in the California Regional League back in August. Legends FC West, in turn, has a losing SCDSL record (currently in 8th place).

- Real So Cal DPL is undefeated after its first five DPL games with a +13 goal differential, but lost 3-1 in California Regional League back in August to CSL Premier's Fullerton Rangers White. That Rangers team, in turn, tied its CRL game with CDA Slammers FC - HB G02 Elite, which is currently in 5th place of the Champions division.

And so on. You get the idea. If DPL were anything close to ECNL the weakest of them should be able to crush Flight 1 and CSL Premier teams. My daughter has played against ECNL teams and the ECNL teams by and large have been at a completely different level than the Flight 1 and CSL Premier teams she's played against. That includes the former '02 So Cal Blues Holley Flight 1 team whose roster now makes up the bulk of the Blues 01/02 DA team (and which team currently has a winning record in DA ).

It's great that sometimes DA coaches come and watch DPL games. But at the '02 level, I've seen ECNL head coaches (e.g., Strikers and Arsenal) that are also the full time head coaches of the ECNL Reserve teams. It's the same coach and the same system. The structure of DA/DPL makes that overlap harder, not easier, to ever pull off.

And I'm delighted that your daughter is having a good experience DPL and is getting good training. But so are girls on Flight 1 teams. There are a lot of good soccer clubs outside of Southern California. If there were a compelling developmental reason for DA clubs to form secondary closed leagues others would have done it.

My impression is that DPL has only been a detriment so far. But again, if there were some evidence that DPL clubs are investing MORE resources in coaching and facilities than they traditionally had invested in CSL Premier and Flight 1, then I'd be sold. Right now all I see is a new shiny logo, hidden rosters, and a disadvantageous change to scheduling.

Your like a government official or the media. Picking the data that tells your story without looking at all of the data. Go to Youth Soccer Rankings and look at the games the 02 DPL teams have played since last spring. Your conclusions are flawed. On one hand you state that not having the DPL teams has hurt the top brackets of SCDSL and CSL and that DPL has only been a detriment but then you seem to say that these teams would not be competitive with the same top brackets they are hurting. Which is it?

You mention that Real DPL lost to Fullerton Rangers who tied the 5th place SCDSL team. You fail to mention that this is the same Real team that tied Fram just one week later (who is tied at the top of Premier with Fullerton). They also beat Real SCV (3rd in champions) 3-0. This team also lost twice to So Cal Blues ECNL this summer only be one goal! They also beat the 2nd place SCDSL team CDA Slammers in the CRL play in.

Now let's look at Beach. You mention they lost to a 8th place team. You also failed to mention they tied the Champions league 3rd place team just one week later. Eagles and Legends have solid track records also. Albion who is tied for 7th place beat Fram (tied for 1st place in Premier with Fullerton) 1-0 in the same CRL event you were quoting above. Pateadores who are in 9th place beat Slammers ECNL this past summer.

My point is not that the DPL 02 teams are superior nor should they be compared to ECNL. Just that your comment "there is no indication that a majority of the DPL teams would be particularly competitive in the Champions level of SCDSL" is flawed and is based just on the select games you picked to support your premise. I can just as easily pick select games the SCDSL Champions league teams played and make the same case that many of these teams would not be competitive in DPL.

 

[SocalPapa]

Your like a government official or the media. Picking the data that tells your story without looking at all of the data. Go to Youth Soccer Rankings and look at the games the 02 DPL teams have played since last spring. Your conclusions are flawed. On one hand you state that not having the DPL teams has hurt the top brackets of SCDSL and CSL and that DPL has only been a detriment but then you seem to say that these teams would not be competitive with the same top brackets they are hurting. Which is it?

You mention that Real DPL lost to Fullerton Rangers who tied the 5th place SCDSL team. You fail to mention that this is the same Real team that tied Fram just one week later (who is tied at the top of Premier with Fullerton). They also beat Real SCV (3rd in champions) 3-0. This team also lost twice to So Cal Blues ECNL this summer only be one goal! They also beat the 2nd place SCDSL team CDA Slammers in the CRL play in.

Now let's look at Beach. You mention they lost to a 8th place team. You also failed to mention they tied the Champions league 3rd place team just one week later. Eagles and Legends have solid track records also. Albion who is tied for 7th place beat Fram (tied for 1st place in Premier with Fullerton) 1-0 in the same CRL event you were quoting above. Pateadores who are in 9th place beat Slammers ECNL this past summer.

My point is not that the DPL 02 teams are superior nor should they be compared to ECNL. Just that your comment "there is no indication that a majority of the DPL teams would be particularly competitive in the Champions level of SCDSL" is flawed and is based just on the select games you picked to support your premise. I can just as easily pick select games the SCDSL Champions league teams played and make the same case that many of these teams would not be competitive in DPL.

I didn't sort through every match. Those poor results alone were significant on their own. Further, I didn't say the BEST DPL teams couldn't compete in Champions. I said there is no indication that a MAJORITY of the DPL teams would be particularly competitive in Champions. Your additional game summaries do not refute that statement.

As you clarify, the top DPL team, Real DPL, is 1-1 vs Champions teams, managed a tie vs a CSL Premier team, and lost twice to an ECNL team. Let's assume this proves Real would be competitive (if not dominant) in Champions. Well, Real DPL has CRUSHED some of the other DPL teams with wins of 7-0 and 5-0. What does that say about those weaker DPL teams?

Further, Albion did manage a tight 1-0 win over a good CSL Premier team. But FRAM isn't in Champions so I'm not sure how far that gets you by itself. (Also, Albion has had a tough schedule. Odds are good that they'll still finish in the top half of the DPL standings when all is said and done.)

I agree Eagles and Legends '02 are quality teams and I would expect them to finish in the top half of DPL.

As for Beach, I wouldn't consider a tie vs the 3rd place Champions team and a loss to the 8th place team indicates they would be particularly competitive in Champions. But in any event, they could also end up within the top half of the final standings.

Finally, Pateadores DPL has never played, let alone beaten, the Slammers ECNL team. I imagine you looked at Youthsoccerrankings for that result, but that site is not correct. The team that Pats DPL beat (1-0) was the Slammers ECNL RESERVE team (currently in 7th place in Champions). Pats DPL was eliminated in the quarterfinals of that tournament, which featured a Champions team and an SCDSL Flight 2 team in the championship match. http://events.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=57647&Gender=Girls&Age=16

 

[Dos Equis]

You can analyze the age groups and teams, cherry pick some game results, and try to make almost any case you want, at least at this point.

I do not think, however, a convincing argument has been made why the DPL was necessary for the purposes of either development or competition here in Socal. Not on these forums, and not on the field.

A trend that started with ECNL, exploded with DA, DPL and the competing summer and fall Norco showcases. Too many clubs here in Socal seem dedicated to creating closed leagues and controlling tournaments resulting in the same clubs and teams playing each other repeatedly.

Our talented players will likely be going down separate paths though their teen years, perhaps to meet once again on the field in college.

I look forward to better understanding what has been gained but, as a father of a much older player, I know what has been lost.

 

[Simisoccerfan]

You are still missing the point. Your Champions League teams top to bottom are no better than the Premier teams top to bottom and the same goes for the DPL teams. If you look at the results for the teams in these three leagues/brackets over the past few months they all blend together. Almost everyone has good wins and bad losses. For example San Diego has CRUSHED many of your Champions League teams with scores of 8-0, 5-0 and 4-0. What does that say about your weaker Champion's teams? If you think the majority of the DPL teams would not be competitive then you shouldn't care that these teams left, since they are no competition for your Champions team. For the most part SCSDL Champions league is home for a bunch of second and third teams (or in Slammers case 4th and 5th?) for big clubs along with several very good top teams from smaller clubs. Sounds a lot like the level of teams in DPL and CSL Premier.