Climate and Weather

The trouble with plug-in hybrids (and electric cars, too) is that electricity isn't always cleaner than gasoline. More than 45 percent of electricity in the U.S. is generated by coal-powered plants [source: EIA]. According to another Argonne National Laboratory report, if a plug-in hybrid charges from coal-generated electricity, it could be responsible for emitting up to 10 percent more greenhouse gasses than a conventional vehicle and up to 60 percent more than a standard hybrid [source: Elgowainy].
 
Ricky Fandango said:
Please continue.
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In my professional life, I was the engineer responsible for batteries on three different projects, spanning the time from 1991 to 2008. The first project used a battery pack filled with NiCad rechargeables (20 ea of super-sub-C size, packed in a shrinkwrap 5x2x2 tube along with overtemperature and overcurrent cutout devices and a 9-pin connector).

The next project was for a light-weight device, and the specification had a requirement to use primary (non-rechargeable) batteries that were readily available on the commercial market. I went to Wal-Mart and bought a large number of lithium camera batteries, 12 of which packed into our custom battery holder were adequate to run the equipment for the time specified.

The last project was to equip soldiers and military equipment and vehicles with portable computer/radios. The batteries for the soldier units were specified as limited to certain types of primary lithium batteries - apparently the Army customer had a lot of them in storage.

With respect to the question on the table - Lithium batteries (on average over the many types) present less of a ccradle-to-grave environmental hazard than NiCad batteries (or the Nickel-Metal Hydride cells that followed). The worst of all is the Lead-Acid type as used in cars - its inherently poisonous nature is mitigated to a large degree by a robust recycling market, driven by strict government regulations.
 
espola said:
In my professional life, I was the engineer responsible for batteries on three different projects, spanning the time from 1991 to 2008. The first project used a battery pack filled with NiCad rechargeables (20 ea of super-sub-C size, packed in a shrinkwrap 5x2x2 tube along with overtemperature and overcurrent cutout devices and a 9-pin connector).

The next project was for a light-weight device, and the specification had a requirement to use primary (non-rechargeable) batteries that were readily available on the commercial market. I went to Wal-Mart and bought a large number of lithium camera batteries, 12 of which packed into our custom battery holder were adequate to run the equipment for the time specified.

The last project was to equip soldiers and military equipment and vehicles with portable computer/radios. The batteries for the soldier units were specified as limited to certain types of primary lithium batteries - apparently the Army customer had a lot of them in storage.

With respect to the question on the table - Lithium batteries (on average over the many types) present less of a ccradle-to-grave environmental hazard than NiCad batteries (or the Nickel-Metal Hydride cells that followed). The worst of all is the Lead-Acid type as used in cars - its inherently poisonous nature is mitigated to a large degree by a robust recycling market, driven by strict government regulations.
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We don't drive batteries. Just sayin'.
 
espola said:
In my professional life, I was the engineer responsible for batteries on three different projects, spanning the time from 1991 to 2008. The first project used a battery pack filled with NiCad rechargeables (20 ea of super-sub-C size, packed in a shrinkwrap 5x2x2 tube along with overtemperature and overcurrent cutout devices and a 9-pin connector).

The next project was for a light-weight device, and the specification had a requirement to use primary (non-rechargeable) batteries that were readily available on the commercial market. I went to Wal-Mart and bought a large number of lithium camera batteries, 12 of which packed into our custom battery holder were adequate to run the equipment for the time specified.

The last project was to equip soldiers and military equipment and vehicles with portable computer/radios. The batteries for the soldier units were specified as limited to certain types of primary lithium batteries - apparently the Army customer had a lot of them in storage.

With respect to the question on the table - Lithium batteries (on average over the many types) present less of a ccradle-to-grave environmental hazard than NiCad batteries (or the Nickel-Metal Hydride cells that followed). The worst of all is the Lead-Acid type as used in cars - its inherently poisonous nature is mitigated to a large degree by a robust recycling market, driven by strict government regulations.
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You seem to have an obvious battery bias.
Have you considered the limited resource nature, and environmental damage of massive lithium mining?

(not to mention disposal)
 
Ricky Fandango said:
You seem to have an obvious battery bias.
Have you considered the limited resource nature, and environmental damage of massive lithium mining?

(not to mention disposal)
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"Battery bias" is funny. The first project, for a general-purpose portable rugged computer, had to run from any power source likely to be found on a US Army base anywhere in the world. One piece of equipment that solved that problem was a cable that hooked up directly to the M1 Tank (and similar vehicles) exterior 28 V jack, sometimes used to jump start one tank from another. Cable looked like this on one end
28vdc_220_right_v2.jpg

The connector is about the size of a small paperback book. On the other end was a 3-pin connector about as big around as 2 fingers.
 
espola said:
"Battery bias" is funny. The first project, for a general-purpose portable rugged computer, had to run from any power source likely to be found on a US Army base anywhere in the world. One piece of equipment that solved that problem was a cable that hooked up directly to the M1 Tank (and similar vehicles) exterior 28 V jack, sometimes used to jump start one tank from another. Cable looked like this on one end
28vdc_220_right_v2.jpg

The connector is about the size of a small paperback book. On the other end was a 3-pin connector about as big around as 2 fingers.
Click to expand...
Yawn
 
espola said:
"Battery bias" is funny. The first project, for a general-purpose portable rugged computer, had to run from any power source likely to be found on a US Army base anywhere in the world. One piece of equipment that solved that problem was a cable that hooked up directly to the M1 Tank (and similar vehicles) exterior 28 V jack, sometimes used to jump start one tank from another. Cable looked like this on one end
28vdc_220_right_v2.jpg

The connector is about the size of a small paperback book. On the other end was a 3-pin connector about as big around as 2 fingers.
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GAF?
 
espola said:
All? No. A proper reviewed by competent reviewers would have exposed an agenda that was not supported by the observations or established scientific principles.
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You've exceeded your Brain power capacity in an attempt to answer the question....
If you fall back on a Q.E.D. response your grey matter will cool down to a level where
a third grade response can be initiated from your " Little " synaptic circuits....
 
Wez said:
It's meaningless to discuss the Science aspect, clearly most actual Scientists agree AGW is possible and if it's possible, we should hope for the best, but plan for the worst.
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You should stick to Potato gardening as science is another dimension in your small world.
 
Wez said:
"that supposedly makes a case against AGW"

Did you miss that the 1st time?
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You are the epitome of the foul mouthed soccer mom who screams at the ref
when he has called a foul in her teams favor......

But go ahead Wez....it's quite amusing watching you jump around with your
fingers up yur ass.....
 
xav10 said:
are you asking if the prius battery is, at the end of its life (estimated to be at 150,000 miles or so), recyclable? yes. why are you so desperate to criticize fuel efficiency or electric motors? do you work for exxon?
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My Sons girlfriend was looking to purchase a used Prius nut changed her mind when she found out how much it cost to replace the batteries and the actual battery life.
 
Multi Sport said:
My Sons girlfriend was looking to purchase a used Prius nut changed her mind when she found out how much it cost to replace the batteries and the actual battery life.
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Most people don’t buy used cars with the expectation that they’ll last more than 150,000-200,000 miles, so that’s a strange one.
 
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