Calsouth NEEDS Paradigm Shift

[wildcat66]

@uburoi, the economics are not in favor of your plan. Here is why:

To the extent a regional tournament (State and National Cup) can be broken up into regional play locations, while still maintaining the balance of the brackets in a fair manner ... great its a fine idea, as long as you/teams/parents are prepared to pay the additional costs.

A venue such as Silverlakes can easily handle tournaments of up to 288 teams (24 fields x 6 games per day = 144 games or 144 team @ 2 games/day or 288 teams @ 1 game/day) and Cal South's deal with Silverlakes is a "complex" deal, which means Cal South pays over $16,195 per day for the facility. (see, https://emma.msrb.org/ER958862-ER749578-ER1151172.pdf, page 115 for rates). The formula is 6 games per 11v11 field and 9 games per 7v7 or 9v9 per field.

Cal South needs to centralize as many games at one facility because its means fewer costs/expenses in field marshalls, referee coordinators, staff, EMTs/Athletic Trainers, etc. The use of Silverlakes and the other complexes just makes good economic sense if you are trying to keep registration fees low and centralize the management. In addition, these complexes do a lot of the heavy lifting by delivering fully set up fields (lined, goals with nets and no holes, corner flags, etc.).

Once Cal South (or another league, CSL or SCDSL or USYS) pulls the trigger on using a large facility, it needs to fill up that facility to the max if it is going to keep its costs under control.

The solution you needs to present is that if teams want to opt out of going to the large facility for CRL play-in, etc. those teams need to be prepared to undertake the additional costs and expenses of:

1. Acquiring the field location ($100-$650).
2. Field set up ($150/field).
3. hiring an EMT and Athletic trainer at $35-$45/per hour person (4 hour minimum)
4. Cost of Field Marshall ($20/hour, plus travel and lodging)
5. Cost of additional Referee Coordinator ($20/hour) (Ref Crew was already included in the tournament fee).

1. Most clubs already have fields that they pay yearly fees to lease so there would be no additional fees for set up and acquiring since it is already done.
2. EMT and trainers aren't present during the season or any other time the field is being used i.e. Practice, friendlies, other tnmts so why needed now? Coaches are required to be first aid qualled and someone seriously injured is a 911 call anyway.
3. Why is a field marshal required if both teams agree on venue?
4. Teams can coordinate refs much like they do for other games...

 

[Dos Equis]

You are correct, at least with Silverlakes, Cal South is required to use the facility at least 13 times per year (see, Page 111, Section 4.1 of https://emma.msrb.org/ER958862-ER749578-ER1151172.pdf).

It really comes down to this: Does Cal South and the greater SoCal soccer community want large venues that invest in the fields and are available to host regional tournaments? If yes, these facilities need to be able to pay for their expenses and make a profit, which means charging for parking and higher field fees. If no, then be prepared to play on crappy public parks, school fields and go to tournaments where you will spend as much money on gas traveling to multiple fields than you would to simply pay for parking.

Brilliant post. I agree Calsouth needs the change, just not sure this is the issue to make that happen.

A few years back, Calsouth let then FWRL(CRL) games be scheduled locally by clubs, and coach conflicts and field issues resulted in games being postponed, and some were never scheduled before the season ended (the teams in the bottom tended to lack incentive to make them happen). People/clubs demanded that Calsouth provide fields and definitive dates for this important league, given its cost. CRL did that. The grass is always greener.

 

[MWN]

1. Most clubs already have fields that they pay yearly fees to lease so there would be no additional fees for set up and acquiring since it is already done.
2. EMT and trainers aren't present during the season or any other time the field is being used i.e. Practice, friendlies, other tnmts so why needed now? Coaches are required to be first aid qualled and someone seriously injured is a 911 call anyway.
3. Why is a field marshal required if both teams agree on venue?
4. Teams can coordinate refs much like they do for other games...

In responding, CRL was the issue, so I assume we are talking about teams that are Flight 1 (SCDSL) or Gold or Premiere (CSL) in the upper-echelon and playing against other higher-level teams. My response assumes these teams are made up of athletes with a future and not Flight 3 or Bronze or Presidio teams:

1 (fields), if that is the case, then great. However, most clubs have to contract with their fields when needed, especially if playing at a School District field and don't have standing orders.

2 (EMT and Trainers), for State and National Cup, CRL, ECNL, CSL Premiere and the DA (i.e. high-level level games) EMTs and Trainers are available. I can understand no medical on the field for practices and/or scrimmages and/or Flight 3 or Bronze play (i.e. glorified recreational ball), but not having medical on the field for Flight 2 and Silver and above when kids with futures are playing is negligent. The Development Academy can't even start their games until the trainer has introduced himself to the coaches and requires 2 trainers for every 4 fields when they have their showcases. Coaches and Parents have an inherent conflict of interest (tend to encourage the athlete to tough it out and play) and are definitely NOT first aid qualified. I have my Grade 8 and E-License and take the "Concussion" Certificate every year, which makes be barely qualified to state "Hmmm, looks like a concussion, better see the EMT or Trainer."

3 Field Marshall is required to settle disputes, confirm eligibility of players and coaches, report scores, take protests, etc. The Field Marshall also enters yellow and red cards and handles the reporting.

4 Referees. Yes and No. This is not a scrimmage. The Referee Coordinator for Cal South is Leo. Leo contracts with the various referee associations and provides the coordinators. Each association makes the assignments and the assignor is paid by Cal South. The on field coordinators are an important element whenever there are more than a few crews and operate as a backup referee in the event one is injured or doesn't show. For low level games with little on the line, I agree that a coordinator is not needed. For high-level games then you need a coordinator if you have more than a few fields, or a very experienced Ref if a one off game. When parents or coaches are removed, its the Coordinator's job to see to it that happens. Now, the problem you are going to run into is the best crews are "supposed" to be assigned to the more important games and typically are assigned to at least two, but preferably three games. If you start running multiple venues with just a game to accommodate two local teams then expect to get a bottom of the barrel crew (i.e. whoever wasn't good enough to get assigned to the tournament venue)

 

[wildcat66]

In responding, CRL was the issue, so I assume we are talking about teams that are Flight 1 (SCDSL) or Gold or Premiere (CSL) in the upper-echelon and playing against other higher-level teams. My response assumes these teams are made up of athletes with a future and not Flight 3 or Bronze or Presidio teams:

1 (fields), if that is the case, then great. However, most clubs have to contract with their fields when needed, especially if playing at a School District field and don't have standing orders.

2 (EMT and Trainers), for State and National Cup, CRL, ECNL, CSL Premiere and the DA (i.e. high-level level games) EMTs and Trainers are available. I can understand no medical on the field for practices and/or scrimmages and/or Flight 3 or Bronze play (i.e. glorified recreational ball), but not having medical on the field for Flight 2 and Silver and above when kids with futures are playing is negligent. The Development Academy can't even start their games until the trainer has introduced himself to the coaches and requires 2 trainers for every 4 fields when they have their showcases. Coaches and Parents have an inherent conflict of interest (tend to encourage the athlete to tough it out and play) and are definitely NOT first aid qualified. I have my Grade 8 and E-License and take the "Concussion" Certificate every year, which makes be barely qualified to state "Hmmm, looks like a concussion, better see the EMT or Trainer."

3 Field Marshall is required to settle disputes, confirm eligibility of players and coaches, report scores, take protests, etc. The Field Marshall also enters yellow and red cards and handles the reporting.

4 Referees. Yes and No. This is not a scrimmage. The Referee Coordinator for Cal South is Leo. Leo contracts with the various referee associations and provides the coordinators. Each association makes the assignments and the assignor is paid by Cal South. The on field coordinators are an important element whenever there are more than a few crews and operate as a backup referee in the event one is injured or doesn't show. For low level games with little on the line, I agree that a coordinator is not needed. For high-level games then you need a coordinator if you have more than a few fields, or a very experienced Ref if a one off game. When parents or coaches are removed, its the Coordinator's job to see to it that happens. Now, the problem you are going to run into is the best crews are "supposed" to be assigned to the more important games and typically are assigned to at least two, but preferably three games. If you start running multiple venues with just a game to accommodate two local teams then expect to get a bottom of the barrel crew (i.e. whoever wasn't good enough to get assigned to the tournament venue)

And this is why soccer will never reach the same level of popularity as it is in other countries. Organizations like Cal South, CRL etc are the ones who enacted the very regulations and practices that make decentralizing control difficult. The players and parents weren't screaming for a field marshal or ref coordinator etc...The governing bodies have turned it into a beurocratic nightmare for two teams to play each other. Does it have to be a perfectly level turf field with pristine markings ? There is no field marshals during leag season, people get kicked out all the time. The refs handle it and if if goes beyond that then the police are called. If,the over regulated over centralized big venue dynamic is deemed nesesary by the people well then leave it alone and quit your complaining.