Cal... What happened?

MacDre said:
I follow CM very closely because her soccer foundation is similar to my players. I assumed she chose Stanford because they offered more money. What are your thoughts as to why 4 out of 5 top players chose to go elsewhere?
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I seriously doubt CM was offered less than a full ride anywhere.
 
gkrent said:
There are some people on this forum that have direct experience with what happened with the 2017 class. Maybe one of them will chime in...
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Know it quite well. Really a different story for each player. The initial 4 players, including my DD, went up as a group and all committed early their sophomore years. The virtues of the arguments against early commitments. As for mine, Berkeley looked cool and "eclectic" during that initial visit, then when she turned 15 she thought it was a "weird" city and had an appetite to leave Coast and go explore the Midwest/ACC. That was pretty much it. Then she went to a late summer game at the Big House.....and now attends Ann Arbor.....the Berkeley of the Midwest. Had nothing to do with money offered, pretty sure that was true for the entire group. But it would definitely have been a heck of a recruiting class.
 
dk_b said:
(@SpeedK1llz can confirm this or correct any details I get wrong - he and I first connected when I had Stanford-SCU 2d round tix that I could not use (the game Stanford lost in 2OT right after Sullivan went down) (the other game was Pepperdine v I can’t remember (NC State maybe?)). That loss really stunk for any Stanford fan - before the injury, Stanford had dominated and it seemed that this was going to be a special run but SCU’s gk was sensational. Of course a 2d round loss proves to be a blip with an elite program.)
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All correct sir. Your memory is impeccable!
 
GKDAD said:
Know it quite well. Really a different story for each player. The initial 4 players, including my DD, went up as a group and all committed early their sophomore years. The virtues of the arguments against early commitments. As for mine, Berkeley looked cool and "eclectic" during that initial visit, then when she turned 15 she thought it was a "weird" city and had an appetite to leave Coast and go explore the Midwest/ACC. That was pretty much it. Then she went to a late summer game at the Big House.....and now attends Ann Arbor.....the Berkeley of the Midwest. Had nothing to do with money offered, pretty sure that was true for the entire group. But it would definitely have been a heck of a recruiting class.
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I googled "Berkeley of the midwest" and got mostly references to Madison, Wisconsin.
 
MacDre said:
I will admit that I have a strong bias towards Cal. However, I can’t recall Cal teams in any sport ever being that good. When I was in High School, I hung out with the Cal football team because one of my best friends older brother Je’rod Cherry played for Cal. My law school roommate Na’il Benjamin played for Cal and was one of the Players Marruuci took to the 49ers with him. My little cousin Beast Mode also played at Cal. Everyone in my inner circle transitioned to the NFL seamlessly despite playing on mediocre teams at Cal. In fact, Je’rod recently auctioned one of his super bowl rings for charity. So, from where I’m standing it looks like Cal is a good option for those that have a decent chance of going pro. But I have to admit you and MAP are in my head and making me reconsider a few things.
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Do you think it was Cal coaching that made the difference for these players to get to the next level or did they just have the natural talent and drive to get there despite the coaching?
 
MacDre said:
I follow CM very closely because her soccer foundation is similar to my players. I assumed she chose Stanford because they offered more money. What are your thoughts as to why 4 out of 5 top players chose to go elsewhere?
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Complete outsiders view:

Cal - Pac12 middle dweller and first round NCAA tournament exit EVERY year they've made the tournament.
Stanford - Pac12 championship and NCAA tournament Championship contender EVERY single year
 
MacDre said:
I follow CM very closely because her soccer foundation is similar to my players. I assumed she chose Stanford because they offered more money. What are your thoughts as to why 4 out of 5 top players chose to go elsewhere?
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It definitely wasn’t about money sir. All of those players were getting money and Cal is significantly less expensive than Stanford, Santa Clara and Michigan for a kid from California.
 
SpeedK1llz said:
Do you think it was Cal coaching that made the difference for these players to get to the next level or did they just have the natural talent and drive to get there despite the coaching?
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I think all had the talent. I’m not so sure about the drive though. I’m amazed at how hard I see young soccer players work for sustained periods of time. It’s hard to constantly push yourself when you can just show up and be better than most. I think the coaches at Cal have done a good job of finding talent in the ghettos of the Bay Area and mentoring kids that would’ve otherwise chose gangs and encouraging them to work hard. To me a coach is a mentor/motivator, and I think Cal is good at that.
 
I’m pretty sure the three clubs he recruits from are far from being in the ghetto. I have family up there and that ain’t it. ( yes I realize you were talking of your football experience but that doesn’t apply to Cal Soccer
 
SpeedK1llz said:
Complete outsiders view:

Cal - Pac12 middle dweller and first round NCAA tournament exit EVERY year they've made the tournament.
Stanford - Pac12 championship and NCAA tournament Championship contender EVERY single year
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Great point. But I have a question for you. Around 5-6 years ago there was a young lady named Ryan Walker-Hartshorn from Oakland that went to Stanford. She had youth national team experience and was the California Gatorade player of the year. After she got to Stanford, I didn’t hear much about her. My fear about Stanford & UCLA is that the coaches only want trophies and put the team over the development of their players.
On the other hand, I look at Cal as putting the development of their players over the team and winning trophies.
So, do you think there’s much development going on at Stanford and UCLA or is it all about winning trophies?
 
surfrider said:
I’m pretty sure the three clubs he recruits from are far from being in the ghetto. I have family up there and that ain’t it. ( yes I realize you were talking of your football experience but that doesn’t apply to Cal Soccer
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Yes, you are correct. Danville, Moraga, & San Jose are expensive. Hell, my small house in S. Berkeley (the Berkeley ghetto prior to gentrification) cost over 1 mil.‍♂️
 
Ryan had a decent career at Stanford. Her best year was as a sophomore but she had a fair amount of playing time all 4 years (some more than others). I did not watch her development close enough so I can’t see why she trended as someone who would become a featured player but it may have to do with the program hitting its zenith in recruiting (which it has sustained).

An aside: She entered Stanford with another Berkeley/Oakland area player - a girl who then suffered three ACL tears (one in HS and two at Stanford if I remember correctly). I always root for our local crew playing at a high level and it was a bummer she never really had the chance (not Stanford’s fault).
 
dk_b said:
We just need to hang out more, @SpeedK1llz

There’s a whole ‘nuther side for people our age that’s less weird. But you gotta love good food.
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Ahh @dk_b you know I’m only half kidding. I do love the food. Zachary’s Chicago Pizza is my all time fave and I know there’s even more still to discover. I’ll meet you in Berkeley anytime, just name the time and place.
 
I remember her. Tall,lanky kid with a ton of talent but had just an average run at Stanford. Stanford UCLA and UNC churn out the most professional by a ways
The US 23 woman roster is littered with them
 
MacDre said:
Great point. But I have a question for you. Around 5-6 years ago there was a young lady named Ryan Walker-Hartshorn from Oakland that went to Stanford. She had youth national team experience and was the California Gatorade player of the year. After she got to Stanford, I didn’t hear much about her. My fear about Stanford & UCLA is that the coaches only want trophies and put the team over the development of their players.
On the other hand, I look at Cal as putting the development of their players over the team and winning trophies.
So, do you think there’s much development going on at Stanford and UCLA or is it all about winning trophies?
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Although I am not familiar with this particular player, I don’t think there’s an easy answer to your question. I do think most coaches are under a considerable amount of pressure to win to keep their jobs and therefore winning and trophies are the primary objective. Development of athletes as players and humans can also be a priority but I suspect this is not the norm. From personal experience, I believe Tim Ward and his staff fall into the latter category but producing a winning/successful program is always in play.

The other factor we need to consider is player/athlete motivation. Was soccer merely a means to a degree? Did they go from being the #1 player in club to #2 or #3 on the college team and that changes their motivation? Do they burn out or do they get to college and realize it’s a lot more work to maintain acceptable playing time and that the competition within their own team is too cutthroat?

Not sure what is happening at Cal & Stanford specifically but I would think in the case of Stanford, Paul has built up enough goodwill and his job is secure enough that I’d hope he could focus on both.
 
surfrider said:
I remember her. Tall,lanky kid with a ton of talent but had just an average run at Stanford. Stanford UCLA and UNC churn out the most professional by a ways
The US 23 woman roster is littered with them
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I think that is a fair description. Though I think an average run at Stanford is not such a bad run in which to be average. (I am not taking your comment as criticism or a knock on the player)

That 4-year stretch (2013-16) was really interesting for Stanford. After winning the College Cup in 2011 and then making it to the semis in 2012, Emily Oliver's career-ending concussion in her senior year opened the door for freshman, Jane Campbell. Yet, as talented as those teams were, their NCAA tourney run was good but not necessarily "elite": 3d round (and 4th in Pac), 3d round (2d in Pac), Quarters (winning the Pac; I think the tourney loss was the game in which EJ Proctor and Duke beat Jane/Stanford in PKs) and 2d round (winning the Pac; the game I mentioned v SCU). Shows how thin that margin is and how incredible it is for the teams that are repeatedly appearing in the College Cup.
 
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