Cal Berkeley Coach (women) abusive

[Soccerfan2]

I can agree with your last point. As the dad of a well rounded student athlete, what I’m driving at has nothing to do with a coaches win loss record or a singular instance of abusive coaching methods.

I think collegiate coaches in non-revenue generating sports are probably retained more for their stature as role models and how they embody the values that a particular institution is trying to project into the world. Presidents office, Fundraising and PR departments drive that.

I called talent collecting scary because it sets aside any real thought of what’s in a young person’s best interest. It may put them in a situation where they become enamored with the name recognition and prestige of a program and loose sight of what may be best for them.

Better to be the head of the snake or tail of the dragon?

Better to warm up alongside a National team player but sit on the bench? Or better to be a leader, playing big minutes and coming out of school ready to be a force in the world rather than broken down and disappointed with how you were treated?

Just adding my two cents to an important conversation...you want to bash my viewpoint as stupid or dumb, please feel free.

Re: “talent collecting”, I think “better” differs for each person. Some athletes are happy to go into a top program for a bench spot because they want the school for academics, or they want to be in the best soccer environment possible, or any other number of reasons beyond school name recognition. Sitting the bench also does not necessarily equate to being broken down. How well prepared you are for success in life beyond soccer has a lot more to do with how you handle adversity than whether you started for your college team.
Of course there are other players who’d prefer a team where they can immediately contribute, and we all hope coaches are upfront and honest in the recruiting process about where the player stands coming in.

 

[Soccer43]

I can agree with your last point. As the dad of a well rounded student athlete, what I’m driving at has nothing to do with a coaches win loss record or a singular instance of abusive coaching methods.

I think collegiate coaches in non-revenue generating sports are probably retained more for their stature as role models and how they embody the values that a particular institution is trying to project into the world. Presidents office, Fundraising and PR departments drive that.

I called talent collecting scary because it sets aside any real thought of what’s in a young person’s best interest. It may put them in a situation where they become enamored with the name recognition and prestige of a program and loose sight of what may be best for them.

Better to be the head of the snake or tail of the dragon?

Better to warm up alongside a National team player but sit on the bench? Or better to be a leader, playing big minutes and coming out of school ready to be a force in the world rather than broken down and disappointed with how you were treated?

Just adding my two cents to an important conversation...you want to bash my viewpoint as stupid or dumb, please feel free.

years ago when our first recruiting journey started we had a narrow focus on what we were looking for and what was considered "success". As with many journeys, life takes twists and turns and you end up somewhere you never imagined but with the perfect path. I have come to know that I would much prefer my player to be happy in their college days, feeling a strong connection with their teammates, pride in their accomplishments on the field, and with a clear sense of a path after college from those defining years of young adulthood. It didn't matter what level of play it was. Originally, D1 was the only prize, at a top 20 school with the hopes of winning conference and NCAA championships. None of that really matters unless your player has visions of WNT and a professional career after college. And in terms of D1, D2, or D3 - would you rather your player be playing on a low-level D1 team that is at the bottom of the conference every year, going nowhere and nothing to accomplish or would you rather your player be on a strong D3 team, playing every minute, winning conference titles, looking to a national championship, and loving her team with a coach that inspires and motivates? Keep your eye on the prize of excellent education and your player's overall wellbeing. What is the point of getting to an amazing college like Cal and fighting against that kind of environment day in day out? Whether you call it abuse or a tough coaching style it is still a bad experience that doesn't produce much of anything positive on or off the field.

 

[crush]

years ago when our first recruiting journey started we had a narrow focus on what we were looking for and what was considered "success". As with many journeys, life takes twists and turns and you end up somewhere you never imagined but with the perfect path. I have come to know that I would much prefer to be happy in their college days, feeling a strong connection with their teammates, pride in their accomplishments on the field, and with a clear sense of a path after college from those defining years of young adulthood. It didn't matter what level of play it was. Originally, D1 was the only prize, at a top 20 school with the hopes of winning conference and NCAA championships. None of that really matters unless your player has visions of WNT and a professional career after college. And in terms of D1, D2, or D3 - would you rather your player be playing on a low-level D1 team that is at the bottom of the conference every year, going nowhere and nothing to accomplish or would you rather your player be on a strong D3 team, playing every minute, winning conference titles, looking to a national championship, and loving her team with a coach that inspires and motivates? Keep your eye on the prize of excellent education and your player's overall wellbeing. What is the point of getting to an amazing college like Cal and fighting against that kind of environment day in day out? Whether you call it abuse or a tough coaching style it is still a bad experience that doesn't produce much of anything positive on or off the field.

Good takes 43. I was really into my dd soccer games up until the clubs started to push college nights to my little girl in 7th & 8th grade. I was shocked!!! Any who, today I'm just helping my player try to find free soccer games so she can ball for free with her friends. Pick up soccer. All this college stuff is up to her and her alone. She already heard the truth from D1 coaches and Docs who speak the truth, although it hurts. I agree the top 20 ((trying to win the Cup)) is always looking to win and is not always for everyone. 8 out of 10 girls did not end up balling for their U when they committed as 8th & 9th graders. Power 5 is big time and these coaches coach to win bro. One Doc told me this, "Playing in top college program is a freaking job for a girl and you can;t get into any kind of trouble and you better get good grades and not even think of having fun in college. It's a job!!!!!" he said. Socal girls get it the worst he said when they show up as freshman at ___________________________________. He said one of his former YNT players is a great example. Committed in 9th grade. Sr year in HS took a chill pill and had a great summer of fun and parties. Doc said she showed up to first practice ((beat test, juggle test, and this test and that test. All to see who is fit and committed to win the Cup)). Mostly the first day is to weed out folks and it's usually ALL about running. This poor socal girl was puking and not happy on the first day. Even tried to call her old man in the parking lot to come bail her out. The female coach was not all too happy either with her top recruit showing up out of shape and not focused to win the Cup. Doc said ((not making this up)) coach grabbed her by her pony tail and told her as she was crying in pain "Listen you little bitch, if you think your going to call daddy to help you like he did in club, you can leave now!!!!" She quit that day but still graduated from the school. This is the reality folks. Two sides to every story.
My dd hates yellers and those who fat shame or just tear the person to pieces. She has a lot of homework to do regarding the right coach. She actually laughs at coaches who yell and put down females. She had one dude that turned all red when he got upset at her or others like her. One time he was so mad that she started to just laugh at him. He got even louder and she laughed even more, He called me to tell me this will not go well for her in college. They talked one on one and he said sorry and she said sorry. He did say that the more he yells at a player the more he cares about the player. If he stops yelling, you suck and will ride the pine or quit. I like a little yell to wake up some but I'm a dude. Most woman I know dont like being yelled at by men. So I think the coaches should stop yelling at the girls, MOO!!!!!!

 

[Copa9]

It is very easy to disregard the most obvious and actual reason the vast majority of people choose coaching as a line of work. It isn’t some nefarious scary desire to “collect talent”. It is primarily to help people grow and provide them with opportunity.

It’s funny how a bunch of people here are demanding that the Cal coach be fired because he isn’t winning enough, and then turn around and claim that trying to recruit the best people to do that very thing constitutes “scary talent collection”. Such a load of b.s.

How often do women’s college coaches even get fired for not winning enough? Shoot, many coaches have been around 10-20 years who regularly have losing records. Have you ever heard of a women’s college coach getting fired because making the tournament 12 of 13 years isn’t good enough. And anyone who think someone should when they graduate such a high percentage of players as Cal does has some really screwed up priorities.

And as for these “massive rosters” that people are complaining about, how much do those contribute to kids getting into colleges that would otherwise not been accessible to them otherwise? The undeniable truth is that very few of the kids on the Cal roster, and a lot of rosters, would have been admitted without soccer, including the recruited walk ons. Those “massive” rosters provide opportunities to thousands including, apparently many who have delusional expectations and don’t understand that making a team is only part of the battle, but hard work and discipline are also necessary to achieve major goals.

I am not surprised that so many people here reach such bizarre negative inferences when it comes to women’s soccer. That has been my experience with most youth soccer parents.

Recruited walk ons? A walk on is an individual who was admitted to the college/university then chose to try out for a team. Then I guess you could say if the coach wanted the individual and invited him/her to join the team, that person was "recruited".

 

[espola]

Recruited walk ons? A walk on is an individual who was admitted to the college/university then chose to try out for a team. Then I guess you could say if the coach wanted the individual and invited him/her to join the team, that person was "recruited".

People are sometimes recruited by a coach with no promise of scholarship, just help with admissions.

 

[Giesbock]

Looking beyond the situation at Cal, does anyone know of other coaches that are recognized for being positive role models??

I’m guessing (and hopeful) that this is a Much longer list than the coaches that have been tagged as exerting tough and questionable emotional leverage on players. ...

With a 2022 winger who’s considering some options, any programs you can vouch for will be appreciated! Thanks

 

[EOTL]

Recruited walk ons? A walk on is an individual who was admitted to the college/university then chose to try out for a team. Then I guess you could say if the coach wanted the individual and invited him/her to join the team, that person was "recruited".

There is not a single “walk on” on the Cal roster who was admitted to the university and then tried out for the team. All of the “walk ons” received favorable admission treatment for the purpose of being on the soccer team. The only thing they didn’t get is athletic scholarship money. This is consistent with most D1 programs. That is such common knowledge that your failure to know this makes pretty much everything you say not credible.

 

[Giesbock]

Favorable Admission Treatment = Why we invest in club soccer.

 

[crush]

There is not a single “walk on” on the Cal roster who was admitted to the university and then tried out for the team. All of the “walk ons” received favorable admission treatment for the purpose of being on the soccer team. The only thing they didn’t get is athletic scholarship money. This is consistent with most D1 programs. That is such common knowledge that your failure to know this makes pretty much everything you say not credible.

Copa kid is going D1 so I would say they have a say in all this. I might not agree with Copa on many things, but Copa has experience and knows what's up. I look at it like this.

Coach: I want you to play for our program kid

Poor Class kid, Middle Class Kid and Rich Class Kid: Oh wow, really?

Coach: Yes. How are parents $$$$ and what grades you got

Poor Kid: We are in the poor house and I got 4.2

Rich Kid: We are so rich my parents will demand that they pay so others can join the team who need more funds. I got 3.4

Middle Class Kid: Tough times coach but hanging in there. I got 4.0

Coach: Excellent!!! I got a roster spot for all three of you and free tutors and priority scheduling.

Poor class kid pays zero
Rich class Kid pays zero
Middle class kid- Half off and then come up with the other $100,000 and more in loans and basically SOL when your older with debt. Not cool but it is what it is at this point. Good luck to everyone and I honestly hope everyone get's what they want

 

[crush]

Favorable Admission Treatment = Why we invest in club soccer.

FAT?

 

[Giesbock]

Sorry...should have said why “I” invest in club soccer. Didn’t mean to speak for others...

Of course when I watch my kid, I still harbor the dream of a YNT camp invite, or call from Coach Ratcliffe... Ha!

But the more likely scenario is that through soccer, she improves her chance of getting into one of her reach schools.

I’d be interested to hear why others invest in club soccer.

 

[dad4]

Sorry...should have said why “I” invest in club soccer. Didn’t mean to speak for others...

Of course when I watch my kid, I still harbor the dream of a YNT camp invite, or call from Coach Ratcliffe... Ha!

But the more likely scenario is that through soccer, she improves her chance of getting into one of her reach schools.

I’d be interested to hear why others invest in club soccer.

My kid plays club because that’s where the other good players are.

Nothing to do with YNT or college admissions. She wants to go to Stanford because she wants to play there, not the other way around. Eventually it will occur to her that colleges also offer classes. Just hasn’t happened yet.

 

[notintheface]

I’d be interested to hear why others invest in club soccer.

The answer to this question should always be "learning to be part of a long-lasting cohesive team unit, working towards a common goal, with friends that they make outside of school, having an activity that will teach them about winning and losing, and teaching them about the importance of physical activity, and help them be a more well-rounded person." Please don't "invest" into club soccer hoping for a scholarship.

 

[myself]

The answer to this question should always be "learning to be part of a long-lasting cohesive team unit, working towards a common goal, with friends that they make outside of school, having an activity that will teach them about winning and losing, and teaching them about the importance of physical activity, and help them be a more well-rounded person." Please don't "invest" into club soccer hoping for a scholarship.

You are right...for a certain level of player. There are cheaper ways to learn these lessons than driving all over the southwest and paying the going rate for your ecnl club's fees.

 

[msoccerm]

You all are giving me the impression that the majority of female players are just playing soccer for a college scholarship or chance to go to a better university then they could get into without soccer - Meaning once they get into their school they just do what they need to do, have fun with teammates and graduate at the end having no ambitions of playing professionally.

If so, how serious are these girls about improving their soccer skills/IQ whilst in college?

I'm starting to worry about the level in college - bar Stanford, UCLA, etc.

 

[notintheface]

...and graduate at the end having no ambitions of playing professionally.

FYI the league maximum salary for the NWSL is $50,000 before TAM (which is only available for the best-of-the-best players). Players for Angel City are almost guaranteed to be renting cheap 2br apartments in Ktown together, for the proximity to the Banc. Ambition is fantastic and getting a degree in order to get a good well-paying job in an interesting field should take precedence.

 

[Giesbock]

Our daughter definitely wants to play high level collegiate soccer and then go on to play pro if she makes it there. She’s fast, athletic, great skill set, tough, so she checks boxes... Maybe she’ll make it.

I’ve just come to the conclusion that as “the investor”, it’s best to look at it as an investment in her getting into a school she might not otherwise get into... eg Cal, Stanford, Yale, Princeton.

As notinthrface reminded us/me, there are so many intangible life lessons that young soccer players have already gained that even if college play doesn’t work out, it’s still been a great journey for her and us.

 

[msoccerm]

Players for Angel City are almost guaranteed to be renting cheap 2br apartments in Ktown together, for the proximity to the Banc. Ambition is fantastic and getting a degree in order to get a good well-paying job in an interesting field should take precedence.

I will always agree that getting a university or trade education is important. And the overall US college experience is amazing and being on a college team can be a priceless experience. But last I remembered college kids aren't living in luxury condos and athletes are basically doing manual labor for free. What can't a player do a degree online and be paid to play?

I’ve just come to the conclusion that as “the investor”, it’s best to look at it as an investment in her getting into a school she might not otherwise get into... eg Cal, Stanford, Yale, Princeton.

If she could not get into those schools because of grades - won't she struggle with the academics? Will she have to do a BS major - something that won't lead to a job after college? If it's because of cost - will the scholarship cover the full tuition and board?

With covid - I am wondering if more and more schools (especially ivies) will drop sports. I'm not talking about football and basketball. But how many people even care about State U womens soccer? Will sports scholarships disappear ?

 

[outside!]

With covid - I am wondering if more and more schools (especially ivies) will drop sports. I'm not talking about football and basketball. But how many people even care about State U womens soccer? Will sports scholarships disappear ?

Title IX

 

[Copa9]

There is not a single “walk on” on the Cal roster who was admitted to the university and then tried out for the team. All of the “walk ons” received favorable admission treatment for the purpose of being on the soccer team. The only thing they didn’t get is athletic scholarship money. This is consistent with most D1 programs. That is such common knowledge that your failure to know this makes pretty much everything you say not credible.

Not true! A family member was not recruited. He chose to apply to the top soccer school and was admitted on his own merits. Tried out as a "walk on". A real "walk on". Made the team, sat out the first two games, a player was injured and he was put in and never left! He became an all WWC player on a top D1 school. The team made it to the NCAA final game only to loose in double over time and then PK's! This team was ranked #1 when he made the team. So yay, what were you saying?? Oh and by the way, he obviously had no money his first year but had a full ride by the time he was a senior! Most of the top academic universities want the students to meet all entrance requirements. Only the top ranked players usually get a pass on the gpa requirement of being within the AI. The A1 is on a sliding scale, combining students class rank, school rank, test scores and grades. Schools will purposely recruit good players with high gpa's to balance out the academic gpa's of some great players who don't meet that requirement. Believe what you want, I have been there and then some. That is for D1 programs, maybe not the same for D2 and D3. But then again, with the pandemic situation and many universities not requiring SAT or ACT scores a lot of students may squeeze in that wouldn't have met entrance test score requirements.