Bell Bank Park Venue

Carlsbad7 said:
Just a suggestion for the Legacy Cares people if you're reading this.

An easy way to make $$$ would be to stream every game played + charge $10 per person to watch each game.

This would easily bring in thousands per day.

Sibblings, parents, grandparents, scouts, coaches from other teams, etc etc etc would all happily pay + it would likely cut down on foot traffic at the fields which means less to clean.
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According to their FAQ, they already tried that.

Here's a fun video that was just posted:

www.azcentral.com

Randy Miller, founder of Legacy Sports USA, discusses Mesa sports complex

Randy Miller dreamed of building a sports park in the Phoenix area. The park is now in default.
www.azcentral.com

Interesting how they're saying that they're just responsible for booking events. Looks like Legacy Sports is out as manager, too.

What's even more fun is that they've started a $450MM project along the same lines in TN. I wonder how the folks down in Murfreesboro are feeling about that now.
 
VanMan said:
According to their FAQ, they already tried that.
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I dont see what you're referring to...

FAQ - Legacy Sports USA

F.A.Q. Most frequent questions and answers Park HouRs Monday thru Friday 8AM-10PM Weekends and Holiday Weekends 7AM-11PM Is there a parking fee? Beginning September 9th, 2022 AirGarage a paid parking system will be enforced. Parking is free Monday-Thursday with the exception of holiday weekends...
legacysportsusa.com legacysportsusa.com

Can you provide a link? What I see is that the indoor courts might be setup for video but I didnt see anything on the turf fields. Also I'm betting the technology' needed to sell live streaming video was too much for legacy cares + they just dropped it.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
I dont see what you're referring to...

FAQ - Legacy Sports USA

F.A.Q. Most frequent questions and answers Park HouRs Monday thru Friday 8AM-10PM Weekends and Holiday Weekends 7AM-11PM Is there a parking fee? Beginning September 9th, 2022 AirGarage a paid parking system will be enforced. Parking is free Monday-Thursday with the exception of holiday weekends...
legacysportsusa.com legacysportsusa.com

Can you provide a link? What I see is that the indoor courts might be setup for video but I didnt see anything on the turf fields. Also I'm betting the technology' needed to sell live streaming video was too much for legacy cares + they just dropped it.
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You're right, the FAQ for video does say "courts", when I read I inferred it as meaning all of the play areas given that they ban outside video of any kind inside the park.

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I gotta say, this whole story is fascinating. Interested find out more about the entity taking over management.
 
VanMan said:
You're right, the FAQ for video does say "courts", when I read I inferred it as meaning all of the play areas given that they ban outside video of any kind inside the park.

View attachment 16299
I gotta say, this whole story is fascinating. Interested find out more about the entity taking over management.
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socalkdg said:
We have played at Silverlakes, Galway Downs, and the Polo Grounds in Del Mar here in SoCal. You pay for parking at every one of these locations. Irvine Great Park is the only location with decent fields that has free parking that we play at.

Jan. 2022 daughter did ODP West Tourney at Bell Bank. It was amazing and puts all four SoCal locations to shame. Had no issues paying $15 for parking and entrance fee. If it has gone downhill in a year, that is sad.

I read they had 4.3 million visitors in 2022 at Bell Bank.
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It is a top notch facility. Paying for parking and lines at the food and beverage outlets is too be expected. In all honesty it is not that bad and if the restaurant is too busy they have food trucks. The parking app never works and when I said something to an employee they said “don’t worry about it.”

It is a first of its kind venue for Arizona and hopefully not the last. Arizona youth soccer needs these types of places to keep up with CA, TX, FL, etc. They are still in the infancy of the business and when a good management company comes in they will make it profitable.

I heard third person that Troon is going to take over the management duties.
 
El Doce said:
It is a top notch facility. Paying for parking and lines at the food and beverage outlets is too be expected. In all honesty it is not that bad and if the restaurant is too busy they have food trucks. The parking app never works and when I said something to an employee they said “don’t worry about it.”
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The parking app problem is caused by cell reception being horrible, too many people hitting too little infrastructure at the same time.
 
El Doce said:
It is a top notch facility. Paying for parking and lines at the food and beverage outlets is too be expected. In all honesty it is not that bad and if the restaurant is too busy they have food trucks. The parking app never works and when I said something to an employee they said “don’t worry about it.”

It is a first of its kind venue for Arizona and hopefully not the last. Arizona youth soccer needs these types of places to keep up with CA, TX, FL, etc. They are still in the infancy of the business and when a good management company comes in they will make it profitable.

I heard third person that Troon is going to take over the management duties.
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Troon is as good as it gets in a management company. They have a ton of experience in fixing broken operations.
 
Drumz said:
Troon is as good as it gets in a management company. They have a ton of experience in fixing broken operations.
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Someone will take it over and make money on it. That place isnt closing.

Whoever takes over will not pay nearly what it cost to make the place. The facilities are excellent. People are using it.

It will eventually be called something else.
 
Desert Hound said:
Someone will take it over and make money on it. That place isnt closing.

Whoever takes over will not pay nearly what it cost to make the place. The facilities are excellent. People are using it.

It will eventually be called something else.
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I don't know how a project like this ever got through underwriting. Debt service alone on $280MM at 7.5% is $21MM per year and that's gotta be within a few million of what the max gross revenue for a place like that would be. Take out operating costs and I can see why they're having issues.

I saw that they were trying to do a refi with $400MM of bonds. No idea how that could work.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out between the current bondholders, the contractors with liens and the land owner.
 
VanMan said:
I don't know how a project like this ever got through underwriting. Debt service alone on $280MM at 7.5% is $21MM per year and that's gotta be within a few million of what the max gross revenue for a place like that would be. Take out operating costs and I can see why they're having issues.

I saw that they were trying to do a refi with $400MM of bonds. No idea how that could work.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out between the current bondholders, the contractors with liens and the land owner.
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If they are only doing 2 Million in gross revenue per month then you are totally correct. No way you can operate a facility of that magnitude on such little revenue. That seems small given some busy restaurants gross 1 million + a month in receipts.

They are letting easy $ burn by the lack of control on parking. I would think that in the near future someone will be collecting $ for parking in person. That will temporarily piss people off and add to the traffic lines on the 24 and Ellsworth. As a community, if we want it for the long term, we will have to live with their growing pains.
 
El Doce said:
If they are only doing 2 Million in gross revenue per month then you are totally correct. No way you can operate a facility of that magnitude on such little revenue. That seems small given some busy restaurants gross 1 million + a month in receipts.

They are letting easy $ burn by the lack of control on parking. I would think that in the near future someone will be collecting $ for parking in person. That will temporarily piss people off and add to the traffic lines on the 24 and Ellsworth. As a community, if we want it for the long term, we will have to live with their growing pains.
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Busy restaurants are usually it full tilt 7 days per week, two meals. These types of facilities are only going to be at full tilt on the weekends and likely not doing much during the summer for the bulk of the outdoor portion of the facilities. Mid week revenues are likely just bits and pieces. Even if they had the whole facility running full tilt (soccer, baseball and basketball/volleyball tourneys at the same time), not sure how they would get to a 500k per week average (26MM annually) over a full year.

Seems like installing a cell tower there (300k max) would be an easy fix with a quick ROI if they are really bleeding that badly.
 
4.3 million visitors. $10 per person spent gives us $43 million for the year. With parking, entrance fee, and misc. spending maybe it is $15 per person average, so we hit $64.5 million per year. Is there parking and entrance fees still?
 
socalkdg said:
4.3 million visitors. $10 per person spent gives us $43 million for the year. With parking, entrance fee, and misc. spending maybe it is $15 per person average, so we hit $64.5 million per year. Is there parking and entrance fees still?
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Yeah, I think that number is suspect. Even if it was true, I'd argue that the number of cars would be something like 1/2 to 1/4 that number as families travel together. Paid admissions would also be less as athletes don't pay. Then there's the fact that they were undercollecting on parking.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
Finally! Legacy cares is done.

Hopefully new "owners" can renegotiate the lease + make it more reasonable. The facility formerly known as Bell Bank is nice it would suck to see it go to waste.
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Looks like Bankruptcy Judge "oks 9 million to keep open Legacy Park" This will allow the operators to us the 9 million to keep the troubled park doors open. What would happen if the judge didn't?
 
"In the U.S. Bankruptcy Court filing, Legacy Cares reported $366.7 million in liabilities and $242.3 million in assets." (Emphasis Added).



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VanMan said:
"In the U.S. Bankruptcy Court filing, Legacy Cares reported $366.7 million in liabilities and $242.3 million in assets." (Emphasis Added).
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They are in a bit of a state, the assets are $230M in property improvements, $8M in equipment & F&F - hardly tangible.

It would be fascinating to see their original business case to get that much money from the banks versus what's actually happened.
 
Too many people have too much money wrapped in this, including some govt funds. The reported number to build was $280M. That's without having to buy the land (it's leased). That means they racked up another $90M in operating losses (also could include interest/debt servicing) if the liabilities are now at $366M. The previous group overspent at a terrible time in history and, from what little I can see, had business skills issues (although they suckered a lot of people into giving them a lot of money). I believe that some company/organization is going to end up buying it at a steep discount. It can be a great venue and it is needed in the area. Anyone got some spare change they want to lump together and we can all buy it together? What's a few hundred million between friends...(although, if i had to bet on it, someone is going to get this for less than $200M which would be a major steal if they owned the land, semi-steal with the lease). I would not be surprised if Artie bought it out. I'm rooting for that.
 
FlintDempsey said:
Too many people have too much money wrapped in this, including some govt funds. The reported number to build was $280M. That's without having to buy the land (it's leased). That means they racked up another $90M in operating losses (also could include interest/debt servicing) if the liabilities are now at $366M. The previous group overspent at a terrible time in history and, from what little I can see, had business skills issues (although they suckered a lot of people into giving them a lot of money). I believe that some company/organization is going to end up buying it at a steep discount. It can be a great venue and it is needed in the area. Anyone got some spare change they want to lump together and we can all buy it together? What's a few hundred million between friends...(although, if i had to bet on it, someone is going to get this for less than $200M which would be a major steal if they owned the land, semi-steal with the lease). I would not be surprised if Artie bought it out. I'm rooting for that.
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Family friendly investment could be a winner. Let the parents run the place for a change. I really do hope everything works out. Looks like amazing fields. I'll be rooting for AZ on this one :)
 
FlintDempsey said:
Too many people have too much money wrapped in this, including some govt funds. The reported number to build was $280M. That's without having to buy the land (it's leased). That means they racked up another $90M in operating losses (also could include interest/debt servicing) if the liabilities are now at $366M. The previous group overspent at a terrible time in history and, from what little I can see, had business skills issues (although they suckered a lot of people into giving them a lot of money). I believe that some company/organization is going to end up buying it at a steep discount. It can be a great venue and it is needed in the area. Anyone got some spare change they want to lump together and we can all buy it together? What's a few hundred million between friends...(although, if i had to bet on it, someone is going to get this for less than $200M which would be a major steal if they owned the land, semi-steal with the lease). I would not be surprised if Artie bought it out. I'm rooting for that.
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I think $350M of the $366M is owed to banks. They don't own the land. The majority of the "assets" are property improvements, i.e. the build out. So the question is who can make the banks the best offer and/or how much of a haircut they are prepared to take.

If someone gets it for say $200M, is that really a good deal? The prior guys business plan obviously crashed and burned.

socalkdg said:
4.3 million visitors. $10 per person spent gives us $43 million for the year. With parking, entrance fee, and misc. spending maybe it is $15 per person average, so we hit $64.5 million per year. Is there parking and entrance fees still?
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For example, they tried to introduce a parking fee and an entrance fee for the soccer games. One local league (biggest) who had their games already scheduled there baulked and it ended up with a parking fee only. Their plan was $10 parking & $10 entry per person over 5 - that ended up as $5 parking only.

There's only one place in AZ that charges entry for soccer - $5 a car. The facility is much more than just soccer, but with 30 odd fields, a very large portion of the land and maintenance is soccer related. I don't see $15 avg from most of them as the clubs will just schedule elsewhere. I've seen the biggest club (RSL) "advertise" that they are not scheduling tournaments at Legacy (after the charges came in) and RSL run 6 or 7 tournaments annually and are founders of the SAAZ (biggest) league.
 
News on Legacy has kind of died out since the bankruptcy filing back in May. I keep looking to see updates but not a lot of news. There are a ton of events planned there the rest of 2023 (not just sports). Hopefully it all gets worked out and a good mgmt team comes in to get things straight. Still tremendous potential for the place. I like it for tournaments, but not practice (prefer grass),
 
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