Entering and leaving the field

[Just a Parent]

Some of the responses from the refs on here is why I have a problem with soccer. The rules should be enforced consistently across the board and personal opinions influencing how they are enforced should be nonexistent. Ages of the players, skill level of the players, time of game etc are not specified as reasons to tweek the rules to a particular ref's liking. If there is unlimited subs and coaches use the subbing to kill time or change a dynamic in the game then so be it. If you don't like it then petition the FIFA rule board or governing board of the league tnmt etc to have it changed. Refs should simply enforce current rules and regulations, not try to influence the way the game is played.

FIFA says refeees must do that. That is the nature and culture of the sport.

I never did understand your kind of mentality until my kids started playing basketball. It would be a sad, sad day in my opinion, were soccer officiating to become like basketball.

 

[wildcat66]

I guess i just prefer structure and consistency. Some ref are worried whether shirts are tucked in and sock are appropriate, some are more focused on what the parents say and whether the coaches are being respectful. One ref thinks that because the team is only 11 he isn't going to call certain violations of the rules as strictly while another doesn't believe in that so he calls them. I understand that the substitution rule is intended so each team has only the required number of players on the field. If the rule says you must enter and exit at the mid line then thats what u do. If coaches use subbing to delay a game as long as it is done within the established rules then it is legal. I always though taking a knee in american football was kinda sketchy, but its legal. How about intentionally walking a good hitter in baseball? Kinda bogus but a strategic move none the less. Too much of soccer is left to the individual interpretation of the ref who may or may not have a personal opinion on how it should be done....just my opinion lol

 

[The Driver]

If you dont respect the LOTG it's just UNO. Taking a knee is called the Victory formation and it you don't execute the play before the play clock expires you are penalized.

 

[coachrefparent]

If coaches use subbing to delay a game as long as it is done within the established rules then it is legal. I always though taking a knee in american football was kinda sketchy, but its legal. How about intentionally walking a good hitter in baseball? Kinda bogus but a strategic move none the less. Too much of soccer is left to the individual interpretation of the ref who may or may not have a personal opinion on how it should be done....just my opinion lol

The problem is that while it may be "legal" to ask for a sub, it is not "legal" to sub without the referees's permission. Referees of youth games are working with a modified set of the rules (LOTG.) In tournament, they often are told not to add any time so the games will stay on schedule. Otherwise, they could add time which would neutralize the delay tactic. They also are required to mantain the flow of a game.

So if in a referee's reasonable discretion he believes a coach is subbing solely to delay, run out the clock, etc. it is legal to deny a sub at that time.

 

[espola]

The problem is that while it may be "legal" to ask for a sub, it is not "legal" to sub without the referees's permission. Referees of youth games are working with a modified set of the rules (LOTG.) In tournament, they often are told not to add any time so the games will stay on schedule. Otherwise, they could add time which would neutralize the delay tactic. They also are required to mantain the flow of a game.

So if in a referee's reasonable discretion he believes a coach is subbing solely to delay, run out the clock, etc. it is legal to deny a sub at that time.

For extreme values of the term "legal".

 

[Art]

The thing is the laws of the game can only be upheld to its closest form on an Fifa or professional level.

Subs are limited in the professional game and advanced level play. In tournaments its unlimited and if a coach makes 22 subs it will take about 15-20 seconds each! Think about if both teams subbed 22 times...that would eat away the game.

Its in no way within the realm of sportsmanship and spirit of the game which many of you claim to know about..

As a referee we are instructed to carry out the laws of the game the best we can and to uphold "spirit of the game"

In the case of substitutions by a winning team to run down the clock, thats an unfair advantage and as a referee you have to ask yourself is that within the spirit of the game? Is that fair to the other team? No and No.

If you want to challenge this refer back to law 5 of the FIFA laws of the game as you clearly know so much about.

In the professional game, if its 92nd min and Liverpool is winning against Chelsea you have to allow the sub thats being called for..

Very different from a team playing limited minutes and no added time. This is common sense and to challenge this is baffling.

Also if your the parent and your kid gets 1 minute to play for the team and the coach is putting him in at the last 2 mins, youd say "theres nothing left in the game to play for!! Why is he putting him in???"

 

[watfly]

I guess i just prefer structure and consistency. Some ref are worried whether shirts are tucked in and sock are appropriate, some are more focused on what the parents say and whether the coaches are being respectful. One ref thinks that because the team is only 11 he isn't going to call certain violations of the rules as strictly while another doesn't believe in that so he calls them. I understand that the substitution rule is intended so each team has only the required number of players on the field. If the rule says you must enter and exit at the mid line then thats what u do. If coaches use subbing to delay a game as long as it is done within the established rules then it is legal. I always though taking a knee in american football was kinda sketchy, but its legal. How about intentionally walking a good hitter in baseball? Kinda bogus but a strategic move none the less. Too much of soccer is left to the individual interpretation of the ref who may or may not have a personal opinion on how it should be done....just my opinion lol

I hear what you are saying and can appreciate your frustration. However, in the area of substitutions I think most refs are fairly consistent. The perceived departures from LOTG voiced here have more to do with the fact that the youth games have a running clock. So since refs don't have the discretion to add time, they have the discretion to limit obvious time wasting substitutions in the "spirit in the game".

In terms of overall inconsistency in the application of the rules I think its partially a function of the sport. The LOTG actually give refs wide discretion, particularly in the area of intent. It's compounded by the fact you have a single ref that effectively has unfettered control of the game, unlike any sport that I can think of. There aren't really any officiating checks and balances built into the individual game itself. I'm not condoning inconsistency among refs, I think its certainly a very frustating issue.

 

[Art]

I hear what you are saying and can appreciate your frustration. However, in the area of substitutions I think most refs are fairly consistent. The perceived departures from LOTG voiced here have more to do with the fact that the youth games have a running clock. So since refs don't have the discretion to add time, they have the discretion to limit obvious time wasting substitutions in the "spirit in the game".

In terms of overall inconsistency in the application of the rules I think its partially a function of the sport. The LOTG actually give refs wide discretion, particularly in the area of intent. It's compounded by the fact you have a single ref that effectively has unfettered control of the game, unlike any sport that I can think of. There aren't really any officiating checks and balances built into the individual game itself. I'm not condoning inconsistency among refs, I think its certainly a very frustating issue.

thank you!

 

[Art]

I strongly feel the 3 man DSC is outdated and could be updated in a completely different way but Id be looked at as crazy on here if I mention what I keep close to my chest .

 

[watfly]

I strongly feel the 3 man DSC is outdated and could be updated in a completely different way but Id be looked at as crazy on here if I mention what I keep close to my chest .

I agree but it would probably be considered sacrilegious and an affront to the sport. Personally I think AR's should be given a much larger role in officiating the game which would also have to include reprogramming of many CR's. I'd much rather see that than VAR.

 

[Art]

I agree but it would probably be considered sacrilegious and an affront to the sport. Personally I think AR's should be given a much larger role in officiating the game which would also have to include reprogramming of many CR's. I'd much rather see that than VAR.

We'd have to retitle AR's to just match officials, and VAR will take time but its positives, just dont know if referees are afraid to do the whole return to field and show a red card thing, i.e mexico vs New Zealand...that was brutal to watch as a ref. Whatever changes that would be made would have to be possible on the youth level, lets keep that in consideration!

 

[wildcat66]

I understand that subbing to run down the clock isnt in the purest wholesome spirit of great sportsmanship, but neither is a lot of things that teams do in order to win a game. If a team is short players would you call the other team unsportmanlike when they play with a full team? As a ref would you allow the game to proceed? Is that following the spirit of the game? How about long clears that are clearly not needed to kill time or allowing the ball to go out of bounds? if the losing teams kicks the ball and normally the player would stop it from going out but lets it go to kill time would you not allow that? too many gray areas left up to ref discretion.

 

[wildcat66]

how about this one ? in the beginning of the game the ball goes out of bounds and a parent quickly runs to it and gets it back to the player right away to throw it in. Now toward the end, the ball goes out, the parent is on the side that is ahead, and he just lets it go and the player has to run(or walk) all the way over to where the ball is and get it for the throw in....gonna penalize the coach for the parent not upholding the same spirit of the game as they were in first half? how about keeper who makes save and immediately pulls ball into play, now to kill time walks up to line and decides to kick or toss it out? do you call that if it is within the reasonable time to have the ball? Is that in spirit of the game? If it is legal by the rules then it should be allowed.

 

[espola]

I agree but it would probably be considered sacrilegious and an affront to the sport. Personally I think AR's should be given a much larger role in officiating the game which would also have to include reprogramming of many CR's. I'd much rather see that than VAR.

Video replay could be reviewed by off-field judges, who would have the power to over-rule on specific plays at the next natural stoppage, or immediately if the referee had awarded a goal that the video shows clearly was not.

 

[coachrefparent]

how about this one ? in the beginning of the game the ball goes out of bounds and a parent quickly runs to it and gets it back to the player right away to throw it in. Now toward the end, the ball goes out, the parent is on the side that is ahead, and he just lets it go and the player has to run(or walk) all the way over to where the ball is and get it for the throw in....gonna penalize the coach for the parent not upholding the same spirit of the game as they were in first half? how about keeper who makes save and immediately pulls ball into play, now to kill time walks up to line and decides to kick or toss it out? do you call that if it is within the reasonable time to have the ball? Is that in spirit of the game? If it is legal by the rules then it should be allowed.

A bunch of silly scenarios, and in no way analogous. Not gray areas at all. No one is penalized for not upholding the spirit of the game. Not allowing multiple, back-to-back substitutions at every stoppage (in the first 5 minutes, or last 5 minutes, intended to delay or not) is not a penalty.

Can't follow your keeper analogy, but all laws would apply.

 

[wildcat66]

All I am saying is that many of the delaying tactics used by teams that are ahead are not in keeping with the "spirit of the game" , but are legal by the rules of the game. I understand that the ref is tasked with enforcing both. When refs use the "we are tasked with upholding the spirit, honor, culture of the sport " response to why something is allowed or not it leaves to much up to personal discretion. An unfair advantage of delaying by substituting could also be looked at if not allowed as an unfair disadvantage Depending on what team you are on.
.

 

[Art]

If its within the laws of the game its acceptable, the in game tactics you mentioned are allowed due to the fact that its happening on the field! Whereas a coach's tactic is off the field in a sense and actually is an interference in a way..I hope you follow on that one.

As the way things go if refs dont allow subs in that final min or 2 it shouldnt be an issue or a dramatic scenario...he is trying to enforce sportsmanship and a little fairness.

This forum topic shouldnt have blown up the way it did. Some teams also stoop to the level of going down injured...which would be more acceptable than 9 subs...but then again that would be interpreted a different way

 

[coachrefparent]

All I am saying is that many of the delaying tactics used by teams that are ahead are not in keeping with the "spirit of the game" , but are legal by the rules of the game. I understand that the ref is tasked with enforcing both. When refs use the "we are tasked with upholding the spirit, honor, culture of the sport " response to why something is allowed or not it leaves to much up to personal discretion. An unfair advantage of delaying by substituting could also be looked at if not allowed as an unfair disadvantage Depending on what team you are on.
.

This is where your "understanding" is mistaken. Upholding is not enforcing. There is no provision for enforcing (ie. issuing a penalty or otherwise sanctioning) for a player or coach (and certainly not a parent) for not keeping in the spirit of the game, so long as it is not unsporting behavior.

You are confusing a referee using discretion to not allow a substitution in particular situation, with them acting to penalize a team for the situations you describe. Completely different. Sorry you can't understand this, but you certainly are not alone

 

[Surfref]

........ how about keeper who makes save and immediately pulls ball into play, now to kill time walks up to line and decides to kick or toss it out? do you call that if it is within the reasonable time to have the ball? Is that in spirit of the game? If it is legal by the rules then it should be allowed.

The keeper is allowed to control the ball with his hands for 6 seconds once he fully gains possession. 6 seconds is actually a lot of time. The keeper can hold the ball and dance around for 6 second if they want.

The keeper making a save and just keeping the ball at their feet really irritated me as a player, but it is completely legal. I had to have a coach remove a parent because a GU18 keeper did this in a 1-0. The parent yelled at the keeper, "That's a fucking duoche bag move. Pick the ball up." The coach subbed out the dad's daughter and made her run around the field and tell her dad to leave and not to come back.

I had a BU17 keeper make a stop while standing. He caught the ball and had it in his hands and in my opinion possession for about 1/2 second. He then dropped it and played it with his feet just dribbling it around in the penalty area to waste time. When the other teams forward ran at the keeper, he picked up the ball. I whistled for a keeper double touch and indicated an indirect kick. Keepers teammates went crazy, but their coach just yelled at the keeper, "I told you some ref was going to call that." After the game the coach approached me and told me I was the first ref to make that call. He said he had been trying to break that bad keeper habit for about a year.

 

[watfly]

In regards to the running clock, it is not uncommon for refs to add time or stop the clock for injuries particularly late in the game. In our last 2 finals this year this has occurred. I was OK with it the first time because my son's team was losing but the second time they were trying to hold on to a one goal lead .

 

[Surfref]

In regards to the running clock, it is not uncommon for refs to add time or stop the clock for injuries particularly late in the game. In our last 2 finals this year this has occurred. I was OK with it the first time because my son's team was losing but the second time they were trying to hold on to a one goal lead .

Referees do not stop the clock in club games, only college and HS stop the clock. In club games the referee, if allowed by gaming rules, can and should add time to the end of each half.