Wez
DA
Wow, gj TFA!
Which u12 DA team in the Los Angeles region has the most talented players ?
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Wow, gj TFA!
John Akii-Bua
BRONZE
My understanding is that Galaxy doesn't have a full roster right now. They had signed up for Man City but dropped. Indeed, I heard they were actively poaching/recruiting at this weekend's tournaments.
(Tapping up players has a bad reputation, but I think it's entirely justifiable for a MLS academy club, and probably any funded DA, to let a kid's parents know that they're interested in him, given the gulf between an ordinary club and DA. Having said that though, it's a bit late in the tryout season for that, since coaches have built their teams, brackets have been applied for, and parents have signed checks. Also, one would think that Galaxy would have their pick of players after state cup, so it's not clear why they would still need to look for players. Finally, one would also hope that anyone they pick up now isn't just roster fodder for the one year of DA before the roster spots shrink up in u13.)
From what I hear, they do not want to make the same mistake as the 04/05 squad and rush. They have more than enough players to field two teams as of today.
Legit_play
SILVER
I completely agree with you CAM about having choices but, when they become limited by upper up decisions like ignoring proven younger player development in the early age clubs request for expansion, that is when I get a little erked. Then, really, what true choice do you have? I guess one could forget about DA and opt for an ODP path through to national recognition. There's also the college route as well.
I have my own opinions on the particular club you are speaking of, but let's leave those out of this.
DA has three prerequisites in the selection process that people tend not to be aware of. These go way beyond winning.
1. How many older players has the club moved forward on the national scene.
2. How many A license coaches are in the organization.
3. What is the general atmosphere the club fosters (positive, treating the players with respect during practices and games and placing player development before winning).
Another consideration is proximity to other DAs. This really hurts TFA. Greater Los Angeles boast the long standing MLS Club Galaxy, the newly formed, but very well funded MLS Club LAFC (they practice 10 minutes away from TFA) and up north the long standing LA Premier with deep roots in the community. That's just the big 3.
So while looking at who the competition for the DA program is/was, where do they all have an edge? Or to take a pessimistic view, where does TFA fall short. Winning is important, but in the DA system it isn't everything they are looking for. From what I have experienced, they would be the absolute best fit for the new boys ECNL division being created.
John Akii-Bua
BRONZE
Is the implication that TFA values winning over development? I've heard people say that before but never really seen evidence of it, apart from the fact that they win a lot.
Much respect yto Olympian John Ali-
Not to go off topic, but I just want to acknowledge the presence of an Olympic Gold Medalist, John Akii-Bua, on this thread. Superstar soccer dad!
That was our experience and not what we expected when we left FCGS. It was a toxic environment for us and not anything like the DA environment we came from or are experiencing now at either one of my children's clubs.
I know others that feel the same and others that disagree. Personal preference I guess.
TFA is a one-man operation, permanently. It has never been able to progress with older teams and I assume US Soccer knew that when it denied him additional teams beyond U12.
John Akii-Bua
BRONZE
Ha, nicely done, xav10! Unfortunately he's been dead for 10 years, but he was a top bloke, lived a colorful life, and represented a wonderful (but flawed) country.
Distraction
BRONZE
TFA is PW's ego trip. It is 100% about winning. But he knows that you win by taking the best players and give them the best training. It is really good for soccer in southern California. It forces everyone who wants to compete to be better.
John Akii-Bua
BRONZE
Yikes, can of worms opened, I should have known better.
But full disclosure, I'm a TFA parent. So I'll dig in...
It's definitely an intense environment, and I've known good players who didn't fit in. The coach said as much when offering my son a spot. Toxic? I haven't seen that, but it wouldn't surprise me that things could get very dark if the team isn't in a good place.
Without DA, they'll never make progress with olders, and they don't really try. It's very hard for him to keep those teams together with the MLS academies right there. Suppose USSF never created DA, and MLS teams didn't invest in youth set-ups -- is there much doubt that TFA would have a top club for olders in LA County?
It's a very tricky niche that TFA has chosen for itself. The players they get are all ambitious and want to play for the best, so they often end up leaving for MLS academies. In that location, there's no massive base of dues paying kids to form 2 or 3 teams at every age group, like what you can get at suburban clubs like Real S0cal, FCGS, Legends, LA Prem FC, etc.
Plenty of human achievement has come about through personal ambition for glory or success, so I don't have a big problem with that. I've found him honest, intelligent, and very open to ideas. He's always looking for ways to improve. True, he's a competitive guy and loves to win, but it's not enough for him just to win. He wants to win in a particular way.
TFA's contributions to so-cal soccer go beyond just aggregating "the best" players and "the best" training. TFA values intelligent play. He really sets a standard with the curriculum.
The trip to Spain is a big deal -- I know many kids' first experience on a plane comes from TFA. That's awesome.
TFA isn't a MLS academy, so it's subject to the same market forces as every other youth club -- winning is the ultimate sign of quality. Without that success, it'd be harder to attract the best players. I totally accept that. However, I don't agree it's all about winning for TFA:
First, possession. It's right there in the club's name. How many clubs tell you right up front like that what they're all about? The club is fundamentally built around its possession curriculum. Clubs that are all about winning are tactically flexible, because they want to be able to play according to the kids they have. The curriculum attracts a lot of kids who want to play intelligent soccer.
Next, fitness: when my son was 7, he was on a team that ran two miles in the sand once a week. We won a lot of games by grinding teams down. There isn't excessive fitness work at TFA.
Most importantly, roster: I've also seen plenty of roster decisions at TFA that valued long term development over short term success.
I don't want to even get close to discussing individual kids, so for example, look at how they handled the 06s over the past couple of tryouts. Pre-AG change, they had two 05s and two 06s. So, they expected to create two 06s. Instead, a bunch of great players came out, which formed the bulk of the 06 A team. Instead of cutting a bunch of kids who had been with TFA for a while, they added a third team, allowing them to offer spots to the 06s from the previous year. Then, what I thought was especially classy was this spring: they could have leveraged the success of the A team for recruiting new players to the DA, but instead, they never held open tryouts, keeping almost all of the DA roster spots for kids that had been at TFA already.
CAM, you talked about the benefit of having options and choices for kids, I can't understand why the USSF wouldn't be supporting TFA. It might be different from an MLS academy or a traditional superclub, but it's done amazing things for soccer in so-cal, and there's every reason to think it could do a lot more as an academy.
But full disclosure, I'm a TFA parent. So I'll dig in...
It's definitely an intense environment, and I've known good players who didn't fit in. The coach said as much when offering my son a spot. Toxic? I haven't seen that, but it wouldn't surprise me that things could get very dark if the team isn't in a good place.
Without DA, they'll never make progress with olders, and they don't really try. It's very hard for him to keep those teams together with the MLS academies right there. Suppose USSF never created DA, and MLS teams didn't invest in youth set-ups -- is there much doubt that TFA would have a top club for olders in LA County?
It's a very tricky niche that TFA has chosen for itself. The players they get are all ambitious and want to play for the best, so they often end up leaving for MLS academies. In that location, there's no massive base of dues paying kids to form 2 or 3 teams at every age group, like what you can get at suburban clubs like Real S0cal, FCGS, Legends, LA Prem FC, etc.
Plenty of human achievement has come about through personal ambition for glory or success, so I don't have a big problem with that. I've found him honest, intelligent, and very open to ideas. He's always looking for ways to improve. True, he's a competitive guy and loves to win, but it's not enough for him just to win. He wants to win in a particular way.
TFA's contributions to so-cal soccer go beyond just aggregating "the best" players and "the best" training. TFA values intelligent play. He really sets a standard with the curriculum.
The trip to Spain is a big deal -- I know many kids' first experience on a plane comes from TFA. That's awesome.
TFA isn't a MLS academy, so it's subject to the same market forces as every other youth club -- winning is the ultimate sign of quality. Without that success, it'd be harder to attract the best players. I totally accept that. However, I don't agree it's all about winning for TFA:
First, possession. It's right there in the club's name. How many clubs tell you right up front like that what they're all about? The club is fundamentally built around its possession curriculum. Clubs that are all about winning are tactically flexible, because they want to be able to play according to the kids they have. The curriculum attracts a lot of kids who want to play intelligent soccer.
Next, fitness: when my son was 7, he was on a team that ran two miles in the sand once a week. We won a lot of games by grinding teams down. There isn't excessive fitness work at TFA.
Most importantly, roster: I've also seen plenty of roster decisions at TFA that valued long term development over short term success.
I don't want to even get close to discussing individual kids, so for example, look at how they handled the 06s over the past couple of tryouts. Pre-AG change, they had two 05s and two 06s. So, they expected to create two 06s. Instead, a bunch of great players came out, which formed the bulk of the 06 A team. Instead of cutting a bunch of kids who had been with TFA for a while, they added a third team, allowing them to offer spots to the 06s from the previous year. Then, what I thought was especially classy was this spring: they could have leveraged the success of the A team for recruiting new players to the DA, but instead, they never held open tryouts, keeping almost all of the DA roster spots for kids that had been at TFA already.
CAM, you talked about the benefit of having options and choices for kids, I can't understand why the USSF wouldn't be supporting TFA. It might be different from an MLS academy or a traditional superclub, but it's done amazing things for soccer in so-cal, and there's every reason to think it could do a lot more as an academy.
Legit_play
SILVER
I guess we have been real lucky in the sense that we do not feel that winning at all cost is what drives our team but, winning is the direct result of the extreme hard work the players put in to their training as well as their deep passion and knowledge of the sport. When calendar year implementation took place, we asked our son where he would like to tryout because we were unsure what direction our former club was headed for and he chose 2, 1 being his current club and he has not been disappointed by his decision after making the squad. All things were laid out in front from the beginning... Intense training at a high level and the results will speak for themselves. For us it was a good fit. Might not be the case for all.
Hey John. I knew by the first post you were a TFA parent. I also felt you were a very intelligent person, which you proved in your last post. That right there is the reason we have these forums and I appreciate it.
In fact. I have been where you are. Read some of my post in the G03 Academy forum and you will see more of my personal experience in these circumstances. There is nothing like fighting against the world for a program you feel is benefiting your kid and his teammates who everyone hates on.
What I have to say is if you want to know why they aren't DA, you can't dig in. You have to dig out, build a tall ladder and look at this with a new perspective.
I have two kids in the DA so you know our family is ambitious. Reality says my kids will be college players. Most likely D1 because they are top players in So Cal. That's if they are still playing after starting club soccer at the tender ages of 5.5 for her (14 next month) and 4.5 for him (11.5 in 4 days). I mean they are pros at this high level, high intensity, high pressure soccer thing.
Already these kids have survived burnout, disappointment, bad coaches, bad parenting (yes we all do that sometimes to) and injuries. Both my kids have already had partial seasons (10 weeks+) lost to injuries to vital soccer parts (knee and legs). Most of the friends they grew up with quit or were forced to bow out for whatever reason. Already.
Let's be honest. Our kids are basically pro players. We can lie about it to ourselves, but soccer is their profession at this elite level. For mine they are pro students also as they both excel and have fabulous grades and attitudes at school. Balancing this is not easy and my 11 year old son and I were laughing about it Saturday. He and I agreed this is hard work man. Nearly impossible work we are years away from the finish line. We know that.
Ok all that said, you tell me. Is that the environment you see fostering a young professional into a healthy career as a veteran professional with 15 plus years of high level soccer experience? Is that where you would choose to ply your trade as an adult? Is that the way you want your management to treat you and your coworkers or you would want to treat your employees if you are an owner or manager?
If all the clubs available were just like his current club, would you still want your young professional in this profession or would you change to something with a better work environment and higher quality of life?
This is real talk John. Your kid is at TFA because he is a baller. Both my kids are ballers. No one is going to tell me different because I grew up with ballers and know them when I see them. I know how to develop ballers and I'm doing it. I have made some serious mistakes when starting out. The worse was "digging in". These kids aren't in our world we grew up in. They have access to all the information out there. My kids don't play in the neighborhood. They cast a much wider net than that.
When I say winning isn't everything, I mean it. Especially at this age. In fact, LOSING IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT AT THIS POINT OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT! Put your kid on a losing team or mediocre team for a season and see if he/she still goes to each and every practice on time and work his/her butt off. You want to know if your kid can make it? See if they love the game then. If yes, then reward them with a positive work environment so they can truly develop.
The journey is enough stress. And it is very, very, very long.
I hope you and I can see our kids flourish together.
Excellent analysis. It ignores the fatal flaw, however. To be a DA club, you need to grow with several, older teams... which takes more than one person. El Jefe has proven, for over 15 years, that he can't collaborate with others to grow his club. Hence the departures of Cherif, Kleiban, Danny Rogers, Erush, FCLA, etc. etc. It's his bat and ball and it goes from u9-12. And they're the best!
So essentially feeder club?
Whether by design or default, most definitely a feeder club. And those of us with '05 and '04 boys on other DA teams will enjoy watching all those excellent TFA players come out next week to try and take our kids' spots!
Wez
DA
They're among the best.
mahrez
SILVER ELITE
For LAFC 06's there was no da bracket at Man City Cup offered past 04's and these are pre-season teams anyway prior to da registration in later Aug. LAFC is partners with Slammers on the girls side and supporting the Cerritos tournament helps that.
As far as TFA they have been a pleasure to watch when I had a chance, they play & execute the procession style very well.
They are late to the da party in a very crowded market with several established clubs Golden State, Galaxy, LAFC, LAUFA already in that terriority.
There are a bunch of criteria to get more teams in da such as player development history: placement on nat teams, pools, etc. Since they haven't had olders they don't have much to show there. Staffing & and a well known director's are another factor they seem to fail short on. If they can address these and some of the other 5 sections they would have a better shot at da expansion.
As far as TFA they have been a pleasure to watch when I had a chance, they play & execute the procession style very well.
They are late to the da party in a very crowded market with several established clubs Golden State, Galaxy, LAFC, LAUFA already in that terriority.
There are a bunch of criteria to get more teams in da such as player development history: placement on nat teams, pools, etc. Since they haven't had olders they don't have much to show there. Staffing & and a well known director's are another factor they seem to fail short on. If they can address these and some of the other 5 sections they would have a better shot at da expansion.
tylerdurden
SILVER
TFA should have absolutely been granted DA status for their 04's. Over the years, IMO, they've developed more quality players than any other club in LA. Their older teams have more difficulty because when the kids hit the academy age, the kids bail for the DA system. It's a unfortunate symptom of their development success.
IIRC, the '03 Galaxy DA team has a bunch of former TFA players that used to make up TFAs unstoppable team (02-03 team before the age shift).
IIRC, the '03 Galaxy DA team has a bunch of former TFA players that used to make up TFAs unstoppable team (02-03 team before the age shift).
They won't get olders ever. The kids leave because the coaches all leave and thus it has always been. The coaches go and thrive elsewhere with older teams (witness Brian Kleiban at Chivas and now Galaxy). Unlike Real So Cal, Arsenal, Pats, GS and other non-MLS clubs, all of whom have developed excellent older teams over the years and hence earned across-the-board DA status, TFA has never done so.