Yes but the appeal of Fest and Cup is because of the academy kids not good enough for pro, it's why the coaches go.
Rant: League fracturing is asinine
- Thread starter sigmabody
- Start date
I agree its a mirage for most.
Which makes playing in US Soccer coordinated multi league showcases with college coaches present even more appealing.
Anything that makes it easier for coaches to see as many players as possible in one location is helpful.
Yea I get that. There are definitely a bunch of coaches there primarily for the academy kids...
But not every school is Stanford. Plenty of programs know they’re not getting an MLS academy standout and are looking at the other kids too.. in that level below elite but pretty decent vs upper half of MLS Next competition...
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Scrub It Kook
SILVER ELITE
MLS Academy scouts attend some ECNL events. They're just not announcing their presence like college coaches and nor are they simply strolling around looking for random talent. They usually have a short list of players to watch based on coach/DOC recommendations or from players they've invited in on trial but weren't ready to select yet.
Yes probably depends on how a coach sees his job security. The more competitive a program is the more a coach thinks twice about admitting a pre-med major.
Along the lines of what others have been saying, one thing US Soccer could do would be to organize a series of tournaments explicitly for visibility to those types of programs/coaches (not exclusively, but designed with that intent). That is, programs which are D2+, and where the players are probably not looking to make it to playing professional, but where they might be interested in getting recruited to a D2/D3/lower school (eg: for preferential admissions, or other reasons). Kids could create an academic profile on team registration, for example, like what some independent sites already support.
This is already what some clubs organize for profit (ie: College Showcase events), but if done under more official sanction and more open (and less for profit), and explicitly for more academic oriented schools/players, it could be really valuable for kids who aspire to that type of pathway and visibility.
Just a thought, into the ether.
You have to look at what makes closed leagues valuable. Theres many things but the most valuable "asset" if you want to label it that way is access to college coaches. If US Soccer really wants to control youth soccer all they need to do is take over showcases from closed leagues. The results of showcase games arent supposed to count in league anyway so why is it a big deal?
It would be so cool if we had 4 showcase events a year that all leagues attended and matchups were determined by the ranking app. College coaches would love it. Smaller leagues would love it. Big leagues would hate it because they would have lost their keys to the kingdom. Players would no longer need to travel 2+ hours just to play in XYZ closed league for college visibility.
The downside of doing something like this is often leagues allow entire clubs into showcase events even if some of their teams suck. This is to make travel easier. If matchups were determined by the ranking app eligibility is at the team level.
I realize that I'm saying the same thing over and over. But this is the only way that I can think of that US Soccer can actually change things. Sitting in the background slowly aligning league processes will take 20 years and even then probabaly wont work. Taking over showcases would fund itself and probabaly be a profit source. It would get everyone playing each other and significantly change the power closed leagues maintain. On top of everything else its makes college coahes lives easier when looking for talent. I just dont see any downside orher than leagues and clubs losing a lot of their pipeline to college coaches. But even that isnt taken away clubs are just forced to earn it vs getting there because of a closed league.
It would be fun watching the league vs league matchups. It would also be fun watching how quickly clubs jumped from league to league because of showcase results. The good old boy coaching networks would be thrown out the window or it would at least make them earn it.
I think overall US Soccer controlled showcase events where all leagues attended and matchups were based on ranking would significantly increase the quality of soccer played in America.
I think overall US Soccer controlled showcase events where all leagues attended and matchups were based on ranking would significantly increase the quality of soccer played in America.
This is what I proposed soccer rankings to do in the other thread- hold a tournament and invite all the top teams across different leagues. But apparently they are not interested, there are already enough cross play they said.
I really don’t see why soccer ranking doesn’t want to make it happen. It will be a big draw. They can charge $50 for parking.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
SR ranks clubs as well as teams, by the performance of their average top teams U11-U17. Theoretically they could use that. But on the girls side it just looks very similar to the ECNL rankings anyway. On the boys side it's a little wonkier, as while MLS HD has all of the top team spots in the olders by a significant margin, many of the clubs don't carry full teams at all of these ages, so the club rankings with this chosen calculation may be misleading.
I think you're discounting the reasons that showcases are what they are, compared to playoffs. If we use ultimate performance to get into a showcase - and then use the showcase results as particularly meaningful - clubs won't use showcases to "showcase" all of their talent, but instead will be incented to win at all costs. Much of the whining in threads like this is ultimately how "deserving kids" aren't being brought in to these opportunities to be seen by those who may be interested in them. Doing this would make it that much less likely that kids on lesser teams, or lesser talented kids on awesome teams, would ever see any playtime anyway.
We have no idea whether soccer rankings would be in favor of such a tournament. It sure seems like they might. Or might not. That has nothing to do with their team performance calculations, or sharing why their inter league and intra league results remain relevant.This is what I proposed soccer rankings to do in the other thread- hold a tournament and invite all the top teams across different leagues. But apparently they are not interested, there are already enough cross play they said.
I really don’t see why soccer ranking doesn’t want to make it happen. It will be a big draw. They can charge $50 for parking.
Scrub It Kook
SILVER ELITE
I agree. Coaches really don't care a whole lot about showcase results and usually all 24 players on the roster will play meaningful minutes. in league and playoffs, it's the top 15-16 that take the majority of minutes with the remaining 8-9 either not getting selected or playing minimal minutes. Introducing the competitive aspect to showcases will just magnify this.
It magnifies things on both ends. The starters get even more exposure and the bench gets even less.
I'd rather magnify the players that are the best vs the ones that happen to play on a team in a specific league.
Meh, don't care.
Let the players that make things happen get the spotlight. If coaches chose to bench players that could help them to win thats their prerogative. But, its not a long term way to keep your job.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
OK, understood - but what you really seem to be arguing for is doing away with the concept of "Showcases", and replacing them instead with another set of playoffs that cross league boundaries. It's a take, I just don't think it's particularly likely, nor would it be preferred by most of the different participant roles.
To be clear (while I'm 100% in favor of this), I don't think it would need to be just the top teams either (this is already semi-covered by prestigious club events also, such as Surf Cup). If there was a well-established, "these are the standard open showcase events for college scouts", which were outside of the league system and not money-grabs, and were well-attended, I think it could include effectively all "higher" levels of teams (down to Flight 1 or so), with the cutoff only based on external rankings (eg: top 250 in the state are eligible at each age, use multiple/many divisions as applicable). Yes, most of the players/teams would be relatively uninteresting to coaches, but with levels determined solely by the rankings app on a per-team basis, video, a good number of matches, and sufficient coach interest, that could become the de facto visibility platform for everyone not playing for a team in a top league, and really open up the landscape. If players felt like they could be seen even without playing in MSLN/ECNL, the draw of those leagues (and associated machinations people go through to play in them) might also be reduced as well.This is what I proposed soccer rankings to do in the other thread- hold a tournament and invite all the top teams across different leagues. But apparently they are not interested, there are already enough cross play they said.
I really don’t see why soccer ranking doesn’t want to make it happen. It will be a big draw. They can charge $50 for parking.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
I think you may be overestimating the value of these things (showcases) for even the top level, at the very best opportunities, for college scouting. It's not a great setup for the best of the best. It's mostly useless for those just a short rung down. It's pointless for anybody/everybody looking up from there. Just look at the (lack of) college recruiter interest in get-togethers for EA/RL/Aspire or any other league that isn't called MLSN/ECNL/GA(maybe). Creating more showcases for teams/clubs that don't qualify for the current ones isn't the answer.
Just to clarify, I don’t want a showcase. I want teams to play their best players and sit their bench.
As for giving flight 1 players a stage to be seen. Even if you look good in a flight 1 game, you are still looking good playing against flight 1 players.