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Maybe US Soccer shouldn't allow so many different league options? Fragmentation is what you're describing.
The problems caused by bifurcation of leagues supports your argument, but the US is the greatest free market system in the world, so competition is the culture we have to live in. Clubs, coaches and teams shouldn't look to the government - USSF - to help them they need to create the model that works for them. Since 75% of soccer is community play, 68% of the players are U10, the sport needs a model of local play that grows into regional competition. Southern CA has 26 mln people it can be broken down into 16 or more regions for local play - 30 min drive time ideal - families will love it. The top teams from each local league advance to a regional competition that can be played over 1 or 2 weekends. Rinse and repeat fall and spring with other events like a State Cup sprinkled in. The USSF and MLS etc etc know that Southern California is the #1 soccer market in the US, if clubs, coaches and teams build a common sense structure here that is open, affordable and is attractive to families, it will get their attention in a positive way.
 
Hey has anyone heard of beast residency in Florida? It’s a combination school and soccer academy that basically recreates what a European academy training day looks like. They are club neutral so they do not compete in weekend games. Some parents do club (with practice waivers) on top of it but that risks overuse injury. Others do Latino league just for the weekend experience. Still others do rec ball in some other sport to get the multisport. As a result it’s a different experience than img or barsa which is aimed at the olders. For a kid interested in soccer I like the idea but it’s not risk free: what if the kid decides he doesn’t want to do soccer after all? And you eventually do either have to double up or leave (he actually tries to place his players if not an academy then upsl instead of p2p clubs)…as a result the school does seem very younger focused for kids trying to get into academies. But given we lack a true Youngers academy system, I think the idea (esp if you forego p2p clubs while in beast as a younger) interesting given the emphasis on small sided games futsal and training. I’ll be interested to see what results he pulls long term.
Like in the school system you have public schools, private schools, and elite schools, like elite schools this idea is built for those who can afford to send their kids. The best of this model can be implemented by committed clubs, coaches and teams at the local level here is S California. The free market - i.e. the parents - will let you know if its a good idea, and if it's sustainable and repeatable.
 
The criticism of the USSF is warranted based upon their lack of attention to youth soccer, failed attempts to take over youth soccer, and their creation of the Boys DA which is the genesis of the current market structure, which many on this forum rightly criticize. So the USSF has a lot to answer for and the latest "Pathways" strategy is not going to satisfy to many people it it certainly will not achieve the PR speak of lowering costs, creating local play, and unifying the soccer ecosystem. By appointing of the US Club league operators to run the league and approval of a NPL rebrand, is early proof of that. But the structure of US youth sports overseen by the USOC - which is wrong in so many ways, but we can leave that for another thread - which appoints the NGB of each sport. The USSF (as the NGB) feels empowered perhaps more than in any other sport. The Mens and Women's National Team sits at the top of the tree, FIFA speaks to and gives the money to the USSF, so unlike football where the NFL is the north star for the sport and the NGB bows down to the NFL, the USSF sees itself above MLS even if many know the MLS brand more than the USSF brand. So the USSF feels emboldened, is flush with cash and has used it to take control of youth soccer - deal with US Club, and now USYS - which it has wanted to do since 1999. But in the interest of fairness many USYS State Assoc were a pain in the you no what and many believe they held youth soccer back the way they did/do things. But the fix will not come from above, it will come from the grass roots. It will not come from the clubs who like the way things are - but don't think all the coaches at these clubs are happy - it will come from the "majority" of clubs who are frustrated with the current model, believe it is a political money making racket, and are frustrated. But instead of trying to "break in" to the system they need to build something that ADDS to the current model. Don;t try to change it, don't try and join it - they don't want you in - create something that is the alternative. Most parents are not happy paying large sums of money, traveling all over the place, and living in fear that if they say something their child will lose playing time or get kicked out. Clubs, coaches and teams need to build another model based upon, open access, local to regional play, more affordable and offering both player development and life skill development. It is better to build your own path than try to knock down the current one or keep hoping that one day "they" will let you in.
The only reason coaches might want to bring everyone under one tent and kumbaya with you is because it would allow them to coach more than one team because of less travel. Club owners and leagues could care less because nothing changes for them.
 
The only reason coaches might want to bring everyone under one tent and kumbaya with you is because it would allow them to coach more than one team because of less travel. Club owners and leagues could care less because nothing changes for them.
I should be more clear. Bringing everyone into one single entity will translate into winners and losers from club owner and league perspective. Some will want to do it and others wont. But if you average all the winners and losers against each other nothing changes. Theres still the same number of players the same amount of clubs but maybe less coaches because they can manage multiple teams.

This will never happen through because the club owners that would lose their closed league that all the top clubs participate in wont get involved.
 
Bingo, now throw a little p2p money into the mix with a parent, club, or coach (or some combo of all three) that have ethics challenges and you get where we are today.

Oh you thought that golf fund raiser where you get to chat up your kids coach for a few hours was was free?

What Ive seen is ethically challenged people tend to gravitate to positions of power where those around them cant question their actions.

I appreciate that you're upbeat and that youre trying to highlight a different path. I also dont want to come off as super negative. I like soccer. I love watching Futsal.

Unfortunately I dont believe things can ever change without blowing up the current system. Wasnt that what DA tried to do? ;-) Im only kidding. If you want to effect change US Soccer has to get more involved at all levels and forms of Soccer. They cant just sit back in their new $250 million dollar facility in Atlanta. You think we didnt notice? How much change could $250 million have done if only spent on the players? Just another example of more of the same.
The USSF is not going to "blow it up". They just signed a six year deal with Wasserman to market US Soccer at every level, as part of this deal in which they took control of US Club's back end admin - we want the data - and now they got the State Associations to agree to disband USYS so they effectively control the competitive, and much of the recreational soccer eco system. They like the current completion model, it acts as their defacto Player ID system. They hear the noise and criticism surrounding the sport, hence the Pathways Strategy - their 5.0 version of soccer. But nothing about the Pathway Strategy is going to improve soccer at the community leval, eliminate the frustrations shared by people on this forum with competitive soccer, lower costs, or increase retention or grow the game. So change is going to have to come from the grass roots army, the clubs, coaches, and teams who want something different. The fact that the DA, State Associations, USYS and others went away is proof that what is here today, does not have to be here tomorrow. In a different post I shared
Why would anyone give up flex scouting opportunities, the existing competition, academy looks, and the badge to play coast? Come on. You know the answer. It’s a fantasy. You can get the 30th bencher maybe. You aren’t getting the top kid. And you need the top kid because that’s who the rest will follow.

Ps we have an example of ayso united in CSL. Ranch conejo boys ayso united 08. Won the state cup. Advanced its way up by dropping players and recruiting new ones. Won next state cup. The coach was buddy buddy with the assistant coach and even dropped the guys kid forcing him to a lower level. But then letter league hit. The best players left for letter league. MLS hg. A couple of them even for mls ad down the street. By the time of the big shift to SoCal occurred the team was a hollow shell. I don’t think it made it to u19 maybe not even to u17. Now United as a program is gone. United is putting however its new all star select teams (essentially extras) in csl.
The scenario outlined will likely happen again if the clubs and coaches frustrated with the current system don't come together to effect change. It will not be easy, it will not happen over night. But taking control is better than believing you can't create change.
 
I should be more clear. Bringing everyone into one single entity will translate into winners and losers from club owner and league perspective. Some will want to do it and others wont. But if you average all the winners and losers against each other nothing changes. Theres still the same number of players the same amount of clubs but maybe less coaches because they can manage multiple teams.

This will never happen through because the club owners that would lose their closed league that all the top clubs participate in wont get involved.
The approach to change should not be about bringing everyone together, it should be to use common sense and create a system in addition to what currently exists that offers access to all that want something better. What is in place will stay in place, the creation of something new, by the people who are frustrated with being locked out, is the best way froward. The Southern California market is big enough, has enough clubs, coaches and teams to warrant a local, affordable, and open access model.
 
The USSF is not going to "blow it up". They just signed a six year deal with Wasserman to market US Soccer at every level, as part of this deal in which they took control of US Club's back end admin - we want the data - and now they got the State Associations to agree to disband USYS so they effectively control the competitive, and much of the recreational soccer eco system. They like the current completion model, it acts as their defacto Player ID system. They hear the noise and criticism surrounding the sport, hence the Pathways Strategy - their 5.0 version of soccer. But nothing about the Pathway Strategy is going to improve soccer at the community leval, eliminate the frustrations shared by people on this forum with competitive soccer, lower costs, or increase retention or grow the game. So change is going to have to come from the grass roots army, the clubs, coaches, and teams who want something different. The fact that the DA, State Associations, USYS and others went away is proof that what is here today, does not have to be here tomorrow. In a different post I shared

The scenario outlined will likely happen again if the clubs and coaches frustrated with the current system don't come together to effect change. It will not be easy, it will not happen over night. But taking control is better than believing you can't create change.
Can the 10 year old 30th bencher supported by a good coach, playing in an affordable, local to regional league not grow into being a top player. It's a better option than paying a lot of money to be a 30th bencher with no opportunity for growth. This player is destined to have left the sport by the time he/she is 13. Change is needed and it will only come from the grass roots army.
 
It’s so obvious CSL is the solution. It’s already there. There are already teams playing. All these clubs who are locked out of MLS next HD and ECNL, instead of going for the second tier leagues like MLS next AD/ECRL or third tier leagues EA/EA2, put your best teams in CSL and allow them to compete in an open system. Your A team players deserve not to be treated like second class citizens. You are much better off in CSL than in that watered down MLS next league without “Allstate”.
 
The approach to change should not be about bringing everyone together, it should be to use common sense and create a system in addition to what currently exists that offers access to all that want something better. What is in place will stay in place, the creation of something new, by the people who are frustrated with being locked out, is the best way froward. The Southern California market is big enough, has enough clubs, coaches and teams to warrant a local, affordable, and open access model.
When people have tried that it hasn’t gone well. E 64 anyone? You’d need to bring the top players. Everyone else follows. For the top players you’d need academy and college looks. The academies won’t want to play ball. It would remove their cannon fodder. So you’d have just do it for the Youngers. Who shouldn’t be worrying about pro rel anyway. Brackets at that age are just about getting competitive play. So you’d have to eliminate scoring records which the trophy chasers would hate.
 
It’s so obvious CSL is the solution. It’s already there. There are already teams playing. All these clubs who are locked out of MLS next HD and ECNL, instead of going for the second tier leagues like MLS next AD/ECRL or third tier leagues EA/EA2, put your best teams in CSL and allow them to compete in an open system. Your A team players deserve not to be treated like second class citizens. You are much better off in CSL than in that watered down MLS next league without “Allstate”.
Again United tried that. No one was interested. We have the historical record of what in fact happened. Wishing it wasn’t so doesn’t get you anywhere. You’d have to figure out how

Also ayso united rancho conejo b08 didn’t advance in state cup by developing players. They started with a solid base of kids. But they decided they were going to ruthlessly take a run at the championships. That meant replacing kids (including the assistant coaches own kids) with kids they recruited as they rose in level. At the height maybe only 1/3 of the team were kids that had started with it. And then when other opportunities opened up for those top kids they couldn’t get college looks in csl. So they left.
 
The approach to change should not be about bringing everyone together, it should be to use common sense and create a system in addition to what currently exists that offers access to all that want something better. What is in place will stay in place, the creation of something new, by the people who are frustrated with being locked out, is the best way froward. The Southern California market is big enough, has enough clubs, coaches and teams to warrant a local, affordable, and open access model.
One thing I would like to see is a Socal vs Norcal (and adjoining states) multi weekend tournamant. Alternate locations each weekend. Seems like such an obvious way to get everyone involved.

Will never happen through because the big leagues force showcases on everyone whenever theres a break in league. Taking revenue away from local club tournamants.

This is the type of thing that US Soccer could enable.
 
Again United tried that. No one was interested. We have the historical record of what in fact happened. Wishing it wasn’t so doesn’t get you anywhere. You’d have to figure out how

Also ayso united rancho conejo b08 didn’t advance in state cup by developing players. They started with a solid base of kids. But they decided they were going to ruthlessly take a run at the championships. That meant replacing kids (including the assistant coaches own kids) with kids they recruited as they rose in level. At the height maybe only 1/3 of the team were kids that had started with it. And then when other opportunities opened up for those top kids they couldn’t get college looks in csl. So they left.
1/3 of the team staying is actually not bad. How many club teams can say that after two years? You use recruitment like it’s a bad word. Coaches don’t develop players, players develop themselves. Good players playing against each other day in and day out is what will super charge the development.

Regarding college looks, you also don’t get college looks in MLS next AD so there is nothing to lose there. Coaches go to Flex to watch HD teams not AD teams.
 
1/3 of the team staying is actually not bad. How many club teams can say that after two years? You use recruitment like it’s a bad word. Coaches don’t develop players, players develop themselves. Good players playing against each other day in and day out is what will super charge the development.

Regarding college looks, you also don’t get college looks in MLS next AD so there is nothing to lose there. Coaches go to Flex to watch HD teams not AD teams.
They have the badge and a bunch of the players are the 30th man on the roster so it’s still a selling point. They are following the top player. You’d again have to get the top players over to your Csl phoenix. Until you can figure out a way to do that (that the academies won’t squish) good luck.

Ps. Europe is sort of organized the way you want it to be. Academies play top level. Everyone else plays tiered rec. some of the best tiered rec gets a shot at playing the academies. But mostly the tiered rec is just in it for fun. The academies don’t need the cannon fodder because there’s plenty of academies for b and c tiered pro leagues. The us is too big. There aren’t enough academies. You’d need to have at least 20 in California alone to just have the academies play themselves. If we ever get there they won’t need the p2p clubs aside from maybe barsa and img types. For the tiered rec to not matter you have to take college out of the equation since europe is test and relationship admit based only.
 
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One thing I would like to see is a Socal vs Norcal (and adjoining states) multi weekend tournamant. Alternate locations each weekend. Seems like such an obvious way to get everyone involved.

Will never happen through because the big leagues force showcases on everyone whenever theres a break in league. Taking revenue away from local club tournamants.

This is the type of thing that US Soccer could enable.
Yup and the older players top uninterested in trophy chasing unless there are scouts there because it just means the risk of an injury. For the Youngers do the parents really want to travel MORE for a trophy?
 
You overestimate how parents and kids view MLS next without “Allstate”. Kids in my son’s school call them “MLS next in name only”. If the club director announces that they are leaving MLS next AD to compete in the open system CSL, parents and kids will applaud the decision.

The same goes for EA and N1.
 
You overestimate how parents and kids view MLS next without “Allstate”. Kids in my son’s school call them “MLS next in name only”. If the club director announces that they are leaving MLS next AD to compete in the open system CSL, parents and kids will applaud the decision.

The same goes for EA and N1.
Again we have the historical record of what in fact happened to rancho conejo united (and not just the 1 team) which contradicts your argument. Indeed it is a very good test case because there’s no hg team right on top of it. The closest hg team is Ventura fusion and the closest ecnl team is lafc SoCal but there are ad ea and ea2 teams nearby. It is the difference between stated and expressed preferences in economics. Csl died. It’s now hosting ayso select teams for Youngers.

Ps there was another club in the same area too playing csl where the coach made the exact same argument. Promised pro looks in Europe. It died too in spectacular glorious fashion. I think it was power elite or chique elite or something like that.

Pps for the older one of the reasons is standards. Ad and ea has certain minimum standards for fields…much of the play is on high school or college fields. One of the complaints in CSL was the quality of the fields. It was one of the factors for clubs migrating from CSL to SoCal even though it involved treks to norco (which btw isn’t a great field either). When in coast I remember for one game my kid got send to a field in the Val which was flooded on one corner, had an iron post sticking out of the other, and a homeless encampment behind the field. But this low bar also meant a lot of Latino clubs in Oxnard who had no money for field rentals could afford it…once teams shifted to the minimum standards of SoCal league a lot of those local clubs disappeared. The clubs in coast would still demand minimum standards competing with the ea and mls2 fields…that eliminates a lot of them and is in fact the biggest obstacle for clubs trying to obtain mls2 or ea let alone mls hg.
 
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Again we have the historical record of what in fact happened to rancho conejo united (and not just the 1 team) which contradicts your argument. Indeed it is a very good test case because there’s no hg team right on top of it. The closest hg team is Ventura fusion and the closest ecnl team is lafc SoCal but there are ad ea and ea2 teams nearby. It is the difference between stated and expressed preferences in economics. Csl died. It’s now hosting ayso select teams for Youngers.

Ps there was another club in the same area too playing csl where the coach made the exact same argument. Promised pro looks in Europe. It died too in spectacular glorious fashion. I think it was power elite or chique elite or something like that.
Conejo is one failed example. There are many teams back in the day that succeeded. You keep on bringing up this one failed example. I am not talking about one team, I am talking about established clubs going back to CSL. If all of locked out club’s MLS next AD teams (their A teams) go play in CSL, it will present a third option other than ECNL and MLS next HD. A pro/rel system will by nature consolidate talents, scouts will come if the teams are good.

By the way, Ventura FC is an example of a club that should be kicked out of MLS next if there were pro-rel. They make us drive all the way up there to blow them out.
 
US Soccer couldn't work it's way out of a wet paper bag and taking over USYS may be the final nail in the coffin of youth soccer. Until US Soccer is burned down and completely restructured (which will never happen) youth soccer and all soccer in the US is doomed for failure.

In the last 10-15 years the number of letter leagues and so-called "pathways" has exploded along with misguided initiatives that have done nothing to improve soccer in the states and I would argue have made it worse.

If you want your kid to get a college scholarship have them play futsal when they are young and then move to Europe.

A friend of mine has done exactly that! His boy is playing pro academy now.
 
Conejo is one failed example. There are many teams back in the day that succeeded. You keep on bringing up this one failed example. I am not talking about one team, I am talking about established clubs going back to CSL. If all of locked out club’s MLS next AD teams (their A teams) go play in CSL, it will present a third option other than ECNL and MLS next HD. A pro/rel system will by nature consolidate talents, scouts will come if the teams are good.

By the way, Ventura FC is an example of a club that should be kicked out of MLS next if there were pro-rel. They make us drive all the way up there to blow them out.
They have the option now. Hey we have another example. When socal elite got kicked out of SoCal league it could have focused on coast. It did not and went letter league.
 
You overestimate how parents and kids view MLS next without “Allstate”. Kids in my son’s school call them “MLS next in name only”. If the club director announces that they are leaving MLS next AD to compete in the open system CSL, parents and kids will applaud the decision.

The same goes for EA and N1.
The travel for the various newer letter leagues - maybe that is one of the issues that could really anchor parents. It seems to me families have been caught in a big escalation of dues, jersey fees, tourney fees in the past few years. Parents themselves have to put their foot down and say "no I don't have any interest in going to Vegas" - but a lot of families do have that interest!

If USA soccer/USYS whatever it will be - can gatekeep access to USA national team ID camps et al - their only real weapon with clubs - they should work on reducing jersey/uniform costs (a giant source of income for the big clubs/private equity), reduce travel, and try to take some sort of effort towards the absurdity of the club dues.
 
Again we have the historical record of what in fact happened to rancho conejo united (and not just the 1 team) which contradicts your argument. Indeed it is a very good test case because there’s no hg team right on top of it. The closest hg team is Ventura fusion and the closest ecnl team is lafc SoCal but there are ad ea and ea2 teams nearby. It is the difference between stated and expressed preferences in economics. Csl died. It’s now hosting ayso select teams for Youngers.

Ps there was another club in the same area too playing csl where the coach made the exact same argument. Promised pro looks in Europe. It died too in spectacular glorious fashion. I think it was power elite or chique elite or something like that.

Pps for the older one of the reasons is standards. Ad and ea has certain minimum standards for fields…much of the play is on high school or college fields. One of the complaints in CSL was the quality of the fields. It was one of the factors for clubs migrating from CSL to SoCal even though it involved treks to norco (which btw isn’t a great field either). When in coast I remember for one game my kid got send to a field in the Val which was flooded on one corner, had an iron post sticking out of the other, and a homeless encampment behind the field. But this low bar also meant a lot of Latino clubs in Oxnard who had no money for field rentals could afford it…once teams shifted to the minimum standards of SoCal league a lot of those local clubs disappeared. The clubs in coast would still demand minimum standards competing with the ea and mls2 fields…that eliminates a lot of them and is in fact the biggest obstacle for clubs trying to obtain mls2 or ea let alone mls hg.
You have been on this forum a long time and have a large number of posts👍 The example of one team being successful but ultimately picked off is support for the idea that those unhappy with the current options need to band together and create the better option. If 100 clubs/teams/coaches repeat the Conejo example it will first be much harder to pick apart and it would be impossible for the success to be ignored. There is no doubt that playing on quality fields is preferable, but that should not come at the cost of the frustration highlighted over and over again on this Forum. Having an open access platform, that's independent, has rules to maintain the integrity of games, where the results on the field determine where you play - rather than politics. That seems like a better option. When clubs, coaches and teams unite as a grassroots network they don't need to fight the system or wait for permission to reform it. They create the opportunity to build a better, higher-retention model that serves 100% of our families - not the 2%.
 
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