ECNL R
- Thread starter Wheelman
- Start date
My guess is NPL will still be there in name but really Nor Cal ECRL will be the best nor cal premier league has to offer. With the best ECNL 2nd teams in their own ECRL league, I think that takes away a handful of solid teams like MVLA, Mustang, San Juan, Surf(when some 1st teamers are guesting or younger ECNL play which is common), Placer, etc. I can't imagine more than a few teams will be good in the Nor Cal ECRL on average per age group. I'm interested to see the actual teams in each age group when released.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
On the boys side, ECNL-RL has been the top level of NPL in Norcal for a few seasons now. Regardless of club, teams can get promoted themselves from NPL1 to RL, and are relegated from RL back to NPL1.
Now that there will be another league for ECNL-RL "Norcal", which is club-based - it is still up for interpretation where ECNL, RL, RL-Norcal fit in the hierarchy - and it will depend on which teams clubs set up to put in them.
Is the plan on the girls side now to have the same two separate RL leagues? team-based and club-based?
For this season: https://norcalpremier.com/competition/ecnl-regional-league/resource/ecnl-rl-overview/
For next season: https://norcalpremier.com/norcal-pr...-ecnl-regional-league-for-the-2025-26-season/
Now that there will be another league for ECNL-RL "Norcal", which is club-based - it is still up for interpretation where ECNL, RL, RL-Norcal fit in the hierarchy - and it will depend on which teams clubs set up to put in them.
Is the plan on the girls side now to have the same two separate RL leagues? team-based and club-based?
For this season: https://norcalpremier.com/competition/ecnl-regional-league/resource/ecnl-rl-overview/
For next season: https://norcalpremier.com/norcal-pr...-ecnl-regional-league-for-the-2025-26-season/
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
Actually, looks like there is more of an explanation here:
from here: https://norcalpremier.com/ecnl-regi...ith-norcal-premier-soccer-for-2025-26-season/
But yes - with now two separate brackets for RL, it means there are less players available for NPL. I don't think that means NPL goes away entirely - it just means that in age groups that have NPL3, now they might only have NPL1 and NPL2. And for ones with just NPL1 and NPL2, maybe they lose NPL2. Should become clearer as we see which clubs are putting which teams where.
from here: https://norcalpremier.com/ecnl-regi...ith-norcal-premier-soccer-for-2025-26-season/
But yes - with now two separate brackets for RL, it means there are less players available for NPL. I don't think that means NPL goes away entirely - it just means that in age groups that have NPL3, now they might only have NPL1 and NPL2. And for ones with just NPL1 and NPL2, maybe they lose NPL2. Should become clearer as we see which clubs are putting which teams where.
It's funny how much ECNL and MLSN are diverging in the approach. First, MLSN if very much a build it they will come, but ECNL still seems very set on earning a promotion to the top slot. ECNL has been very vocal about switch to SY but MLSN has signaled because of the academies it will likely remain BY. And MLSN has MLS2 which the US soccer on their pyramid has placed at level 2 (along with ECNL), and which can be used as a place for MLSN reserve and futures players to play down. this ECNL division if it extends to the rest of the country would put them at two separate spots on the pyramid. If it were to follow the MLS pattern, ECNL RL GS would be the second tier. If it doesn't, I can't see ECNL RL GS surviving long as a ton of players, if not making the cut for their ECNL team, wouldn't want to get sent down to ECNL RL GS. That was the issue with MLSN reserve players. You'd have some teams with 30+ players (3 goalkeepers) and no one would want to be sent down for fear of getting stuck there and losing their eligibility if something happened that gave them a slot, so they preferred no play time to play time with the lower ranked team.
Highlander
SILVER ELITE
3 clubs left GA for ECNL RL on the girls side (Los Gatos, SF Elite & West Coast) and were replaced by 3 weak NPL clubs - SF Glens, Napa and Newark - those clubs didn't have NPL teams at all levels. GA in NorCal is so weak, one wonders who long it will hold together. NPL is totally watered down, but still a good platform I think - pro rel works so well. Hope they start doing pro rel in the ECNL / RL - some of ECNL clubs should be relegated.
After seeing a few weeks of ECNL RL Norcal, nothing more than a rebranded NPL. However, instead of having tiers, like NPL, there is just one division so lots of mismatches.
My favorite is San Ramon 2010G who have a -36 GD against 3 NPL-level teams.
public.totalglobalsports.com
However, the ECNL RL rules, as stated, say they cannot be relegated as a "founding member".
My favorite is San Ramon 2010G who have a -36 GD against 3 NPL-level teams.
Total Global Sports
However, the ECNL RL rules, as stated, say they cannot be relegated as a "founding member".
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
It's actually worse than a "rebranded NPL". The teams now called RL in the club-based bracket are often terrible - 50th percentile or less in state. One of our NPL teams played 6 games vs. different "RL" teams in tournaments at the beginning of this season, and won 5 of 6. Even NPL has relegation to move those teams that aren't performing well to lower NPL brackets or out of NPL entirely, but it looks like the "new RL" is a gift to clubs that doesn't require any semblance of performance requirements. Clubs can sell non-savvy parents on the brand - but it doesn't really represent anything.
I've never really understood why NORCAL wants to associate so closely with ECNL.
In Southern California SOCAL is separate from other leagues. Functioning as the league all clubs youngers play in until GA/ECNL/MLS hit. After that SOCAL becomes where big clubs 3rd teams play (and coaches shop for players from smaller clubs). When they're split out this way everyone's interests make sense.
It appears ECNL potentially benefits if NORCAL top level is ECRL. But I dont see where NORCAL benefits other than being ECNLs go to for 3rd 4th teams. But the association probably frustrates MLS + GA clubs for no reason. Who cares about 3rd 4th teams. When your business is 3rd 4th teams being exclusive to one group just avoids money.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
Rebranding the old NPL "Champions League" as ECRL seemed like a good idea at the time a few years ago, and seems to have worked out well for all parties. Kids now have a pathway all the way from rec+ through all tiers up to and including ECRL, with distinct and achievable promotions tied to performance. Once they outgrow ECRL, there is the opportunity for ECNL, MLS N, or GA. I don't think they are concerned with upsetting MLS N or GA - it just doesn't matter.
Bastardizing RL to take away those performance expectations does make it seem like a weird situation, while also keeping the "real" RL around. I will publish a few of the brackets later this season with SR stats to show if the new "RL" teams continue to be embarrassing, and weaker than NPL.
Bastardizing RL to take away those performance expectations does make it seem like a weird situation, while also keeping the "real" RL around. I will publish a few of the brackets later this season with SR stats to show if the new "RL" teams continue to be embarrassing, and weaker than NPL.
Those clubs that left GA weren't really powerhouses. My guess is they all lost players with the move to ECRL. But yeah, the GA table isn't super strong. I think that's a much bigger issue with GA though. I do think ECNL is going to have their hands full if they don't continue to expand the ECNL table on the girls side. I think a lot of these clubs moved to ECRL with the hope of getting promoted at some point. There's no chance a player will get as much exposure playing for an ECRL team as they would for a top half of the table GA team.
On the boys side, so far MLS2 is looking like a dud. Perhaps it's just the 1st year blues, but the MLS2 teams just aren't collectively competitive enough. Personally I think non-MLSN and ECNL clubs really should've pushed NorCal to keep NPL and all it's structure. Perhaps that's ECRL - NorCal now....but I haven't dug deep.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
I wouldn't sleep on Los Gatos. Well-run club, happy parents, good location - they were just losing their best kids as they got into the older ages and Los Gatos didn't have ECNL (boys) for them. Their previous boys side was about as strong as their girls (GA) side, even without the badge.
Now they have fixed the problem and got the full ECNL badge - and there is every expectation that club will be in the top 20 (state) within a year or two.
Now they have fixed the problem and got the full ECNL badge - and there is every expectation that club will be in the top 20 (state) within a year or two.
Top 20 on the girls side or the boys side? Or both? On the boys side, the struggle there is MLSN teams dominate the top 20, so that's a tall task. The girl's side will need several years to see anything like that and a lot of stars would need to align. They're not even in ECNL. Plus I can't imagine that they still aren't losing players to ECNL(girls) and MLSN(boys) clubs. I'm not sure their moves have eliminated that.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
On the boys side. The girls side would be expected to stay the same at best, but likely get weaker.
MLSN Teams dominate the individual age groups, but don't necessarily dominate the list of top 20 clubs, as many of them don't carry a full slate of teams U11-U17.
MLSN Teams dominate the individual age groups, but don't necessarily dominate the list of top 20 clubs, as many of them don't carry a full slate of teams U11-U17.
Top 20 club ranking on the boys side is incredibly unlikely. Certainly not in 1-2 years. The top NorCal ECNL club is MVLA which comes in at 21st. The next one is Santa Clara Sporting at 32nd. Right now Los Gatos is 67th. I still don't believe they've solved their problem of losing players. The better players will go to Quakes, Bay Area Surf, De Anza, Woodside, and Silicon Valley.....or even clubs like Sporting and MVLA. Maybe they can get there, but it won't be 1-2 years.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
You're not listing several of the Norcal ECNL or even ECNL-RL clubs like Mustang, Folsom, Placer, Marin FC, and a few more. No - they all aren't viable logistical options for a kid considering Los Gatos - but they are all ECNL clubs in California being ranked on the list we're talking about.
You're right - top 20 might be a stretch. But neither MVLA or Santa Clara are particularly strong on the boys side compared to MLS N, and there's every possibility that Los Gatos could catch up to them in team strength in a very short time. Los Gatos won't have secret sauce to keep kids there instead of going to MLS N, especially with kids being bamboozled with MLS2 - but they should be able to compete with their ECNL peers very quickly.
I'm just looking at club ranking for boys in CA. I didn't get down to those other clubs as they ranked farther down -- not really close to top 20. Sporting and MVLA have had some pretty strong teams in ECNL. I do think top 50 in CA would be reasonable in 1-2 years. Going 67th to 50th would be a pretty good leap.
Highlander
SILVER ELITE
I would love to know how Los Gatos got ECNL on the boys side. There are NPL (now RL) clubs that are ranked much higher on the boys side in NorCal. Why didn't they get ECNL? The entire thing is a scam IMHO. It's all driven by business ($$$) and back room deals within the old boys network of soccer bros.
You guys complain about RL clubs getting a sweet deal - its nothing compared to ECNL clubs on the girls side. Many of those clubs lose all the time outside of ECNL but they have the ultimate golden handshake. How can clubs like Marin and Pleasanton still have ECNL? Let's be honest, most of their teams are RL level at best. I wonder why they can't turn it around - get some good coaches, and run your clubs right - the talent will come, but something is wrong at those clubs because they can't get good despite having a golden handshake.
The old NPL setup in NorCal was the best - true pro/rel that ensured good match ups. That has all been blown up. As has already been said here some of these clubs in RL stink at many age groups but that is also true in the ECNL and GA - just go look at the scores. It's all stupid. Someone up above mentioned that ECNL needs to expand - this is true and why all of this is happening. ECNL will grow to 15 clubs on both boys and girls side with in the next 5 years would be my guess. Girls just added Odyssey - don't go look at the scores of their games - OUCH. I always wonder about the parents / players on a team that is getting crushed by 5+ goals every game - how do you keep going? How do you keep throwing $$$ at that? I feel for you and I know some of you are out there reading this...would love it hear your thoughts. And not just picking on Odyssey - they have an excuse, they are new to the league - go look at the GA - it's brutal. I feel for those players and parents.
Then there is the ECNL clubs forming their own RL league - I guess they had to do that to protect their B teams - a good business decision for sure. But lets all be clear, at every level of youth soccer in the USA, it is all business first and kids and families last.
What I propose for youth soccer? Pro/Rel for all levels of youth soccer - no more 11-0 games, all games meaningful, players play at their level and have a chance to grow and build their confidence...what a bummer that it can't be like that.
You guys complain about RL clubs getting a sweet deal - its nothing compared to ECNL clubs on the girls side. Many of those clubs lose all the time outside of ECNL but they have the ultimate golden handshake. How can clubs like Marin and Pleasanton still have ECNL? Let's be honest, most of their teams are RL level at best. I wonder why they can't turn it around - get some good coaches, and run your clubs right - the talent will come, but something is wrong at those clubs because they can't get good despite having a golden handshake.
The old NPL setup in NorCal was the best - true pro/rel that ensured good match ups. That has all been blown up. As has already been said here some of these clubs in RL stink at many age groups but that is also true in the ECNL and GA - just go look at the scores. It's all stupid. Someone up above mentioned that ECNL needs to expand - this is true and why all of this is happening. ECNL will grow to 15 clubs on both boys and girls side with in the next 5 years would be my guess. Girls just added Odyssey - don't go look at the scores of their games - OUCH. I always wonder about the parents / players on a team that is getting crushed by 5+ goals every game - how do you keep going? How do you keep throwing $$$ at that? I feel for you and I know some of you are out there reading this...would love it hear your thoughts. And not just picking on Odyssey - they have an excuse, they are new to the league - go look at the GA - it's brutal. I feel for those players and parents.
Then there is the ECNL clubs forming their own RL league - I guess they had to do that to protect their B teams - a good business decision for sure. But lets all be clear, at every level of youth soccer in the USA, it is all business first and kids and families last.
What I propose for youth soccer? Pro/Rel for all levels of youth soccer - no more 11-0 games, all games meaningful, players play at their level and have a chance to grow and build their confidence...what a bummer that it can't be like that.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
I can't defend why clubs aren't able to improve (or have continued to make choices that result in backmarker status), but I would point out that in every game there is going to be a winner and a loser, and in every bracket there is going to be a team (or more) that is dominant, and a team (or more) that is bringing up the rear. This is the case across MLS N, ECNL, Flight 2, and Copper teams learning how to tie their cleats. The top team is going to be stronger than the bottom team by ~4-6 goals everywhere, wherever they sit on the curve. The "new RL" isn't a problem because they have some bad teams - it's a problem if the "average" club in the the bracket is noticeably weaker than the "average" club in a bracket that it's supposed to be superior to. Similar with ECNL - the problem isn't that they have some bad teams, it's that those same bad teams are able to stay uncompetitive for an extended period with no fear of direct consequences. Promotion/Relegation can temporarily fix the immediate issue by rewarding exceptional teams, and in moving the bottom team to a lower level of play, but it is most effective if the brackets provide a smooth progression in expected performance, up & down - and pointless if the bracket strength is random.
Here's what happens when you have bottom feeders and blowouts in a league.
- The top teams will get frustrated playing teams they know they're going to blowout. They'll consider it a waste of time especially if theres significant travel involved.
- Bottom feeders that dont improve will never improve. Don't try to reason with them or put them on improvement plans because it will never happen.
- Other leagues will try to lure top teams to their league. The bait will be less or no more blowouts / waste of time games.
As I said before NOCALs association with ECNL seems forced and unnecessary. It would make more sense to be separate and not aligned. The member clubs dont even seem to like it either because they've created 2 different ECRL leagues.
Agree with just about everything you've said here. The incentives in competitive youth soccer are predominately driven by money. It's really unfortunate as there are a lot of good people in this space. Unfortunately, even they have to think about revenue.