Make NCAA Men’s Soccer American Again?

FWIW: the men's side has always featured a ton of international players. I went to the 1977 national championship (it was at Cal) while USF sought to complete a three-peat (they lost to Hartwick. Hartwick's leading scorer was American but offensive most outstanding player was from Scotland and the defensive MOP was from England). They had a number of non-US players. It's always varied by program (still does). The idea of making it American "again" harkens back to a time when most of us were probably not alive and the game was totally different. (My opinion: if someone is validly enrolled and has eligibility left, he should be allowed to play intercollegiate athletics)
 
dk_b said:
FWIW: the men's side has always featured a ton of international players. I went to the 1977 national championship (it was at Cal) while USF sought to complete a three-peat (they lost to Hartwick. Hartwick's leading scorer was American but offensive most outstanding player was from Scotland and the defensive MOP was from England). They had a number of non-US players. It's always varied by program (still does). The idea of making it American "again" harkens back to a time when most of us were probably not alive and the game was totally different. (My opinion: if someone is validly enrolled and has eligibility left, he should be allowed to play intercollegiate athletics)
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I agree with you.

But they should 100% fund their own way + not be eligable for scholarships American taxpayers made possible.
 
dk_b said:
FWIW: the men's side has always featured a ton of international players. I went to the 1977 national championship (it was at Cal) while USF sought to complete a three-peat (they lost to Hartwick. Hartwick's leading scorer was American but offensive most outstanding player was from Scotland and the defensive MOP was from England). They had a number of non-US players. It's always varied by program (still does). The idea of making it American "again" harkens back to a time when most of us were probably not alive and the game was totally different. (My opinion: if someone is validly enrolled and has eligibility left, he should be allowed to play intercollegiate athletics)
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From ChatGPT
“In 2013, international student-athletes made up approximately 8.5% of first-year players in Division I men’s soccer. By 2018, this figure rose to 11.4% . The upward trend continued, and by 2022, international players constituted about 34% of all Division I men’s soccer athletes.”

This number may rise past 50% in the next five years unless something is done - and your tax dollars are subsidizing the universities. Fewer US boys may participate at the highest levels once it’s abundantly clear Pro and College aspirations are next to impossible.

This rising number should be reset back to 2013 levels.
 
maestroFRSM said:
From ChatGPT
“In 2013, international student-athletes made up approximately 8.5% of first-year players in Division I men’s soccer. By 2018, this figure rose to 11.4% . The upward trend continued, and by 2022, international players constituted about 34% of all Division I men’s soccer athletes.”

This number may rise past 50% in the next five years unless something is done - and your tax dollars are subsidizing the universities. Fewer US boys may participate at the highest levels once it’s abundantly clear Pro and College aspirations are next to impossible.

This rising number should be reset back to 2013 levels.
Click to expand...

Did a quick check of the Hartwick 1977 team - I think it was 28% or 29% non-us. Pretty sure USF tilted even more heavily toward international players. Personally, I don't really care if a roster is international if the players are validly enrolled (I do think there should be scrutiny of programs abusing that - not just in soccer and for international players but in all sports for all players). I also think there should be age restrictions on eligibility but, if anything, the NCAA seems to be going away from that.
Carlsbad7 said:
I agree with you.

But they should 100% fund their own way + not be eligable for scholarships American taxpayers made possible.
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How many athletic scholarships are taxpayer-funded? Even with state schools that might have some or much of their operations funded by state budgets (so by taxpayers), I was under the impression that athletic scholarships have to exist outside of general operating costs (I do think that some athletic operations may come from student fees but not athletic money). If an athletic department funds its scholarships through donors, I really don't care who the recipient is and I'm guessing a big money donor does not care either so long as the player represents the program well.
 
dk_b said:
Did a quick check of the Hartwick 1977 team - I think it was 28% or 29% non-us. Pretty sure USF tilted even more heavily toward international players. Personally, I don't really care if a roster is international if the players are validly enrolled (I do think there should be scrutiny of programs abusing that - not just in soccer and for international players but in all sports for all players). I also think there should be age restrictions on eligibility but, if anything, the NCAA seems to be going away from that.


How many athletic scholarships are taxpayer-funded? Even with state schools that might have some or much of their operations funded by state budgets (so by taxpayers), I was under the impression that athletic scholarships have to exist outside of general operating costs (I do think that some athletic operations may come from student fees but not athletic money). If an athletic department funds its scholarships through donors, I really don't care who the recipient is and I'm guessing a big money donor does not care either so long as the player represents the program well.
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No, scholorship funding most of the time comes from state and federal taxes. Government allocates tax revenue to various educational programs, including financial aid for students. This aid can take the form of grants, which don't need to be repaid, and scholarships, which are often merit-based or have specific eligibility criteria.

So not only are our kids getting screwed out of playing a sport at college by foreign academy washout outs. We're also paying for it to happen via our tax dollars.
 
Colleges accept international students for financial gain because most are not eligible for financial aid. UCLA, for example, 25% of freshman class are international students because they pay 50k tuition/year. Imagine how many Socal high school kids have to be sacrificed.
What is the purpose of colleges giving scholarships to boys that cannot make it to Euro clubs academy or MLS clubs? Nobody is watching college soccer anyway.
 
aong cangkol said:
Colleges accept international students for financial gain because most are not eligible for financial aid. UCLA, for example, 25% of freshman class are international students because they pay 50k tuition/year. Imagine how many Socal high school kids have to be sacrificed.
What is the purpose of colleges giving scholarships to boys that cannot make it to Euro clubs academy or MLS clubs? Nobody is watching college soccer anyway.
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It's pretty simple. Coaches get a free yearly trip to Europe where they get their butts kissed the whole time. Foreign academy washouts are usually older 22 years old is common. The players know that theyre getting a good deal because often they couldn't even get into a college in their country.

If they were paying for everything I'd have no issue.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
No, scholorship funding most of the time comes from state and federal taxes. Government allocates tax revenue to various educational programs, including financial aid for students. This aid can take the form of grants, which don't need to be repaid, and scholarships, which are often merit-based or have specific eligibility criteria.

So not only are our kids getting screwed out of playing a sport at college by foreign academy washout outs. We're also paying for it to happen via our tax dollars.
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Athletic scholarships are funded from state and federal taxes? My understanding was that that was not the case and my short (non exhaustive) bit of research seems consistent with that. I wonder how many players are losing spots because of international students. The one I know who were good enough to play college soccer found roster spots. The ones who were not good enough, didn’t. But that’s a small anecdotal sample size. You may know a lot more than I so maybe your information is more statistically significant.

Hard to know though. I think age/more stringent enrollment rules would have an immediate impact in weeding out the people who game the system and create more opportunities for sincere student athletes
 
dk_b said:
Athletic scholarships are funded from state and federal taxes? My understanding was that that was not the case and my short (non exhaustive) bit of research seems consistent with that. I wonder how many players are losing spots because of international students. The one I know who were good enough to play college soccer found roster spots. The ones who were not good enough, didn’t. But that’s a small anecdotal sample size. You may know a lot more than I so maybe your information is more statistically significant.

Hard to know though. I think age/more stringent enrollment rules would have an immediate impact in weeding out the people who game the system and create more opportunities for sincere student athletes
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The feedback I've received from parents with sons at big schools with former Academy players from mostly Europe. Is that they're not better than US players however they are usually older and used to playing against older players. This gives them a slight advantage.
 
dk_b said:
Athletic scholarships are funded from state and federal taxes? My understanding was that that was not the case and my short (non exhaustive) bit of research seems consistent with that. I wonder how many players are losing spots because of international students. The one I know who were good enough to play college soccer found roster spots. The ones who were not good enough, didn’t. But that’s a small anecdotal sample size. You may know a lot more than I so maybe your information is more statistically significant.

Hard to know though. I think age/more stringent enrollment rules would have an immediate impact in weeding out the people who game the system and create more opportunities for sincere student athletes
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BTW here's a site that specializes in info about scholorships for foreign players. So yes your tax dollars are going to foreign players.

 
dk_b said:
Athletic scholarships are funded from state and federal taxes? My understanding was that that was not the case and my short (non exhaustive) bit of research seems consistent with that. I wonder how many players are losing spots because of international students. The one I know who were good enough to play college soccer found roster spots. The ones who were not good enough, didn’t. But that’s a small anecdotal sample size. You may know a lot more than I so maybe your information is more statistically significant.

Hard to know though. I think age/more stringent enrollment rules would have an immediate impact in weeding out the people who game the system and create more opportunities for sincere student athletes
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I've always believed when DD goes to club soccer tryouts or Club HQ it should be mandatory they play "Mobland" or "Sopranos" theme music... Same for the guys... 💸 🤑 💸 🤑 💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵🤬
 
aong cangkol said:
Colleges accept international students for financial gain because most are not eligible for financial aid. UCLA, for example, 25% of freshman class are international students because they pay 50k tuition/year. Imagine how many Socal high school kids have to be sacrificed.
What is the purpose of colleges giving scholarships to boys that cannot make it to Euro clubs academy or MLS clubs? Nobody is watching college soccer anyway.
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Don't forget about the children of actors and famous rich people taking spots away from SoCal kids at Big U.
 
espola said:
Where does it mention "tax dollars"? I couldn't find it.
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It's a shell game. But, the way it works is the state and federal gov give colleges $$$. The colleges then "appropriate" that money in scholorship form to players. There are no restrictions on who they give $$$ to so yes international players are receiving American tax dollars to play a sport in college.

Theres also private scholorship programs that have specific requirements on how money is distributed.
 
Carlsbad7 said:

It's a shell game. But, the way it works is the state and federal gov give colleges $$$. The colleges then "appropriate" that money in scholorship form to players. There are no restrictions on who they give $$$ to so yes international players are receiving American tax dollars to play a sport in college.

Theres also private scholorship programs that have specific requirements on how money is distributed.
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It's all effectively fungible, so yes the public is funding international students. I can tell you from personal experience that universities do a very poor job of accounting for and segregating funds.

I have a different spin on all this. Its not just soccer, international students take a lot of STEM spots at universities. I heard a Stanford professor in mathmatics say they primarily look at Pacific Rim students.

If you truly believe in merit and not quotas, then the internationals earned those STEM and soccer spots. So you either ban international students all together or we improve our educational and soccer systems to compete with other countries.

The current reality is that soccer is a dead end sport for homegrown American boys and men with the exception of a handful or so of elite players. Sorry to be so harsh, but its highly likely (maybe a certainty) it excludes everyone's son on this forum.

Enjoy the ride, stay in the moment and give no mind to the future.
 
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