Can someone break down for me the difference between Pre-NPL and Pre-ECNL/ECRL?

[ILoveToWatchYouPlay]

What are the main differences between Pre-NPL and Pre-ECNL/ECRL? If you had an option of Pre-NPL or Flight 1 (SoCal) how would you decide?

My main goals for my son is to continue to develop and play in a competitive format. His birthday is the back end of the calendar year, so he will benefit likely somewhat next year with the change to school year.

Probably not an easy question to answer, but I'm primarily looking to understand the differences in the competitive levels.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

You're looking for an answer that very intentionally doesn't exist. Clubs across the country, for years now, have had what they called "pre-ecnl" teams in the younger ages before ECNL starts. The teams had nothing to do with ECNL, competed with other teams in various leagues that had nothing to do with ECNL, but convinced parents that they were "higher-level" teams in order to extract more money. Eventually, there were enough of them in some geographies that they actually launched brackets called "Pre-ECNL", and many of these teams joined them. The funny part is that there were still teams calling themselves "Pre-ECNL", but chose not to actually enter the "Pre-ECNL" bracket, and continued to compete in lower level brackets. Same thing with Pre-NPL, and Pre- anything else. It's the club's naming choice for what they consider their top team of that younger age.

At the U13 level, it's assumed that last season's Pre-ECNL team will now become the ECNL team, but keep in mind that there is always a ton of turnover year over year, especially when kids get to the teen competitive years.

Comparing "Pre-ECNL" and "Pre-NPL" is a fools errand. There's a wide range of quality in the teams competing in each, much wider than the average difference (if any) between the leagues. If you're concerned about the quality of a particular team or club, look at the ratings for that specific team - and don't focus on the league name itself. Winning/losing isn't everything, especially at these younger ages, but it can give you clues about which clubs are telling you more accurate information when they tell you how "strong" their teams are.

 

[Code]

The labels "Pre-xxx" were used by clubs that played in the ECNL to keep consistency in the way they named/labeled thier teams. ECNL did not have leagues for the youngers (below U13). The older teams were named by year group and league, ie 2010 ECNL (for the A team), 2010 ECRL (for the B team), 2010 Socal Flight 1 (for the C team). Because the U12 and youngers did not play in ECNL the youngers A teams would be labeled 2016 Socal Flight 1 (or whatever league they played in).
This created some confusion with parents of youngers, who do not understand how the leagues and team ranking work, about which team was the A team. To help make things clear to the Youngers, the U12 and U11 "A" teams were usually named something like 2016 Pre-ECNL. Indicating that when this team aged up to U13, it would in fact be playing in the ECNL, because the clubs older teams were currently playing in the ECNL.
Then things started getting stupid. Clubs that did not have olders playing in the ECNL, but were trying to get accepted into the ECNL started naming thier Older Teams, Pre-ECNL (or Pre-EA, or Pre-xyz, this happened across the board with all the leagues) as a marketing strategy to get people to believe they were going to be joining the ECNL.
To create further confusion, the ECNL then created an actual league named Pre-ECNL were the ECNL Clubs could play thier U12/U11 Younger Teams against other ECNL clubs. So there is actually a Pre-ECNL league that some Pre-ECNL teams play in, there are some ECNL Clubs who name thier younger "A" teams Pre-ECNL for continuity, and there are clubs who name thier teams Pre-ECNL who don't actually play in the ECNL. This occurs with all the Letter Leagues.
Bottom line: if the Clubs older teams are actually playing in the league, the Pre-xyz indicates which team will move into that slot at U13. If the Clubs older teams are not playing in the league, it is a major red flag as the club does not understand the soccer landscape, or they do and thier intention is to mislead you.
As a side note, NPL is team based promotion and relegation based on previous season performance. There is absolutly no garrantee that a club with older NPL teams will have the U13 team accepted automatically into the NPL league like ECNL, GA, MLS,etc.. The Pre-NPL team designation is a BS assertion becuase maybe they will and maybe they won't.

 

[Code]

You're looking for an answer that very intentionally doesn't exist. Clubs across the country, for years now, have had what they called "pre-ecnl" teams in the younger ages before ECNL starts. The teams had nothing to do with ECNL, competed with other teams in various leagues that had nothing to do with ECNL, but convinced parents that they were "higher-level" teams in order to extract more money. Eventually, there were enough of them in some geographies that they actually launched brackets called "Pre-ECNL", and many of these teams joined them. The funny part is that there were still teams calling themselves "Pre-ECNL", but chose not to actually enter the "Pre-ECNL" bracket, and continued to compete in lower level brackets. Same thing with Pre-NPL, and Pre- anything else. It's the club's naming choice for what they consider their top team of that younger age.

At the U13 level, it's assumed that last season's Pre-ECNL team will now become the ECNL team, but keep in mind that there is always a ton of turnover year over year, especially when kids get to the teen competitive years.

Comparing "Pre-ECNL" and "Pre-NPL" is a fools errand. There's a wide range of quality in the teams competing in each, much wider than the average difference (if any) between the leagues. If you're concerned about the quality of a particular team or club, look at the ratings for that specific team - and don't focus on the league name itself. Winning/losing isn't everything, especially at these younger ages, but it can give you clues about which clubs are telling you more accurate information when they tell you how "strong" their teams are.

Beat me to it.

 

[ILoveToWatchYouPlay]

The labels "Pre-xxx" were used by clubs that played in the ECNL to keep consistency in the way they named/labeled thier teams. ECNL did not have leagues for the youngers (below U13). The older teams were named by year group and league, ie 2010 ECNL (for the A team), 2010 ECRL (for the B team), 2010 Socal Flight 1 (for the C team). Because the U12 and youngers did not play in ECNL the youngers A teams would be labeled 2016 Socal Flight 1 (or whatever league they played in).
This created some confusion with parents of youngers, who do not understand how the leagues and team ranking work, about which team was the A team. To help make things clear to the Youngers, the U12 and U11 "A" teams were usually named something like 2016 Pre-ECNL. Indicating that when this team aged up to U13, it would in fact be playing in the ECNL, because the clubs older teams were currently playing in the ECNL.
Then things started getting stupid. Clubs that did not have olders playing in the ECNL, but were trying to get accepted into the ECNL started naming thier Older Teams, Pre-ECNL (or Pre-EA, or Pre-xyz, this happened across the board with all the leagues) as a marketing strategy to get people to believe they were going to be joining the ECNL.
To create further confusion, the ECNL then created an actual league named Pre-ECNL were the ECNL Clubs could play thier U12/U11 Younger Teams against other ECNL clubs. So there is actually a Pre-ECNL league that some Pre-ECNL teams play in, there are some ECNL Clubs who name thier younger "A" teams Pre-ECNL for continuity, and there are clubs who name thier teams Pre-ECNL who don't actually play in the ECNL. This occurs with all the Letter Leagues.
Bottom line: if the Clubs older teams are actually playing in the league, the Pre-xyz indicates which team will move into that slot at U13. If the Clubs older teams are not playing in the league, it is a major red flag as the club does not understand the soccer landscape, or they do and thier intention is to mislead you.
As a side note, NPL is team based promotion and relegation based on previous season performance. There is absolutly no garrantee that a club with older NPL teams will have the U13 team accepted automatically into the NPL league like ECNL, GA, MLS,etc.. The Pre-NPL team designation is a BS assertion becuase maybe they will and maybe they won't.

Wow, thank you! Very thorough. I sincerely appreciate the detailed response, this is very helpful.

 

[ILoveToWatchYouPlay]

You're looking for an answer that very intentionally doesn't exist. Clubs across the country, for years now, have had what they called "pre-ecnl" teams in the younger ages before ECNL starts. The teams had nothing to do with ECNL, competed with other teams in various leagues that had nothing to do with ECNL, but convinced parents that they were "higher-level" teams in order to extract more money. Eventually, there were enough of them in some geographies that they actually launched brackets called "Pre-ECNL", and many of these teams joined them. The funny part is that there were still teams calling themselves "Pre-ECNL", but chose not to actually enter the "Pre-ECNL" bracket, and continued to compete in lower level brackets. Same thing with Pre-NPL, and Pre- anything else. It's the club's naming choice for what they consider their top team of that younger age.

At the U13 level, it's assumed that last season's Pre-ECNL team will now become the ECNL team, but keep in mind that there is always a ton of turnover year over year, especially when kids get to the teen competitive years.

Comparing "Pre-ECNL" and "Pre-NPL" is a fools errand. There's a wide range of quality in the teams competing in each, much wider than the average difference (if any) between the leagues. If you're concerned about the quality of a particular team or club, look at the ratings for that specific team - and don't focus on the league name itself. Winning/losing isn't everything, especially at these younger ages, but it can give you clues about which clubs are telling you more accurate information when they tell you how "strong" their teams are.

Yes, that would explain why it's been difficult to understand all the different naming conventions. Thank you for excellent feedback and insight. Much appreciated.

 

[Code]

Here is a visual of how all the Leagues Stack up in Southern California. This was originally created using a California League Comparison done by Soccer Rankings. Some of the recent league name changes were plugged in for current verbages of those teams leagues.

 

[Messi>CR7]

Code and RandomSoccerFan explained it very well on the confusion by design in youth soccer. It's hard to answer your question directly on which league is better because there are lots of mismatches in these leagues. For example, an ECNL club must put their 2nd team in this Pre-ECNL 2 league instead of a perhaps more appropriate level SoCal F2 or F3. There are team with -100 in goal differential to date.

Anyway, for U12/U11, In general this is how clubs place their A, B, and C teams respectively.

MLS Next Clubs:
A-EA
B-EA2 (not every MLS Next club participates in this)
C-Pre-NPL

ECNL Clubs
A-Pre-ECNL
B-Pre-ECNL 2
C-Pre-NPL

For clubs that are not in MLSN or ECNL:
A-Pre-NPL
B-SoCal F1

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

As a side note, NPL is team based promotion and relegation based on previous season performance. There is absolutly no garrantee that a club with older NPL teams will have the U13 team accepted automatically into the NPL league like ECNL, GA, MLS,etc.. The Pre-NPL team designation is a BS assertion becuase maybe they will and maybe they won't.

I don't believe this is entirely the case, at least in California. Once a club gets accepted to NPL (which you're right, is initially tied to a team's performance), their top team is put into NPL once they reach U13 - regardless of performance. It's a safe bet that if their "pre-npl" team is their top team, it will be in NPL for U13. But every year thereafter, there is promotion/relegation for that team from NPL1, NPL2, NPL3, and even out of NPL if they are relegated.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

I don't believe this is entirely the case, at least in California. Once a club gets accepted to NPL (which you're right, is initially tied to a team's performance), their top team is put into NPL once they reach U13 - regardless of performance. It's a safe bet that if their "pre-npl" team is their top team, it will be in NPL for U13. But every year thereafter, there is promotion/relegation for that team from NPL1, NPL2, NPL3, and even out of NPL if they are relegated.

and promotion to ECNL-RL.

 

[ILoveToWatchYouPlay]

Code and RandomSoccerFan explained it very well on the confusion by design in youth soccer. It's hard to answer your question directly on which league is better because there are lots of mismatches in these leagues. For example, an ECNL club must put their 2nd team in this Pre-ECNL 2 league instead of a perhaps more appropriate level SoCal F2 or F3. There are team with -100 in goal differential to date.

Anyway, for U12/U11, In general this is how clubs place their A, B, and C teams respectively.

MLS Next Clubs:
A-EA
B-EA2 (not every MLS Next club participates in this)
C-Pre-NPL

ECNL Clubs
A-Pre-ECNL
B-Pre-ECNL 2
C-Pre-NPL

For clubs that are not in MLSN or ECNL:
A-Pre-NPL
B-SoCal F1

Thank you! This excellent forum. You all lay this out so well.

 

[ILoveToWatchYouPlay]

I don't believe this is entirely the case, at least in California. Once a club gets accepted to NPL (which you're right, is initially tied to a team's performance), their top team is put into NPL once they reach U13 - regardless of performance. It's a safe bet that if their "pre-npl" team is their top team, it will be in NPL for U13. But every year thereafter, there is promotion/relegation for that team from NPL1, NPL2, NPL3, and even out of NPL if they are relegated.

Thank you!

 

[polygon]

I agree with what everyone else has said, but wanted to add one point. In 2024 for U10-U12 SoCal added a Pre-NPL league that was not based on geography, but instead allowed the top teams in each age group to compete against each other. This made for fewer lopsided scores, while allowing teams to play their own age, but of course meant much more travel for many of the teams.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

I agree with what everyone else has said, but wanted to add one point. In 2024 for U10-U12 SoCal added a Pre-NPL league that was not based on geography, but instead allowed the top teams in each age group to compete against each other. This made for fewer lopsided scores, while allowing teams to play their own age, but of course meant much more travel for many of the teams.

Valiant attempt - but it still has fantastic teams and horrific teams. Top "Pre-NPL" 2013B team is #6 in state (out of 1058 teams), #18 in the country. Weakest "Pre-NPL" 2013B team is #624 in state, #3161 in the country. The former would beat the latter by 10 goals. It is in the bottom half of all competitive teams in the 2013B age group. Not sure if it really succeeded at "fewer lopsided scores".

 

[polygon]

Valiant attempt - but it still has fantastic teams and horrific teams. Top "Pre-NPL" 2013B team is #6 in state (out of 1058 teams), #18 in the country. Weakest "Pre-NPL" 2013B team is #624 in state, #3161 in the country. The former would beat the latter by 10 goals. It is in the bottom half of all competitive teams in the 2013B age group. Not sure if it really succeeded at "fewer lopsided scores".

Wow, fair enough! I clearly didn’t look into the various age groups and rank teams. My only point was that as of last year there was an actual league/flight called “Pre-NPL”. But looks like anyone can put their teams in there maybe? But I don’t care enough to investigate the details and look up teams’ previous years results.

 

[Code]

I don't believe this is entirely the case, at least in California. Once a club gets accepted to NPL (which you're right, is initially tied to a team's performance), their top team is put into NPL once they reach U13 - regardless of performance. It's a safe bet that if their "pre-npl" team is their top team, it will be in NPL for U13. But every year thereafter, there is promotion/relegation for that team from NPL1, NPL2, NPL3, and even out of NPL if they are relegated.

I don't believe this is entirely the case, at least in California. Once a club gets accepted to NPL (which you're right, is initially tied to a team's performance), their top team is put into NPL once they reach U13 - regardless of performance. It's a safe bet that if their "pre-npl" team is their top team, it will be in NPL for U13. But every year thereafter, there is promotion/relegation for that team from NPL1, NPL2, NPL3, and even out of NPL if they are relegated.

I think you are looking at the NorCal system. The SoCal system does not have

I don't believe this is entirely the case, at least in California. Once a club gets accepted to NPL (which you're right, is initially tied to a team's performance), their top team is put into NPL once they reach U13 - regardless of performance. It's a safe bet that if their "pre-npl" team is their top team, it will be in NPL for U13. But every year thereafter, there is promotion/relegation for that team from NPL1, NPL2, NPL3, and even out of NPL if they are relegated.

Sounds like you are talking about the NorCal League system, which is a bit different than SoCal League system. SoCal does not have NPL2, NPL3. I automaticallt default to the SoCal landscape on here because it is a SoCal Soccer forum. Maybe the OP can clairify what region he is in.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Sort of - I was talking about NPL leagues generically, rather than just the SoCal implementation specifically. You're right, it's limited in SoCal with just a single bracket, and not a large amount of teams involved. Does SoCal truly look at whether a team "qualifies" for NPL once once it ages into the right range, assuming the club already has NPL teams? How would that occur? There are so few teams in SoCal with that NPL label, that I'm having a hard time trying to track a team that has gone from Pre-NPL to NPL to try and understand the mechanism.

 

[Scrub It Kook]

Sort of - I was talking about NPL leagues generically, rather than just the SoCal implementation specifically. You're right, it's limited in SoCal with just a single bracket, and not a large amount of teams involved. Does SoCal truly look at whether a team "qualifies" for NPL once once it ages into the right range, assuming the club already has NPL teams? How would that occur? There are so few teams in SoCal with that NPL label, that I'm having a hard time trying to track a team that has gone from Pre-NPL to NPL to try and understand the mechanism.

I don't know that NPL in SoCal looks at who actually qualifies, but rather who applies. At least for some age groups. I know a bottom of the table Flight 2 team that applied for Flight 1 last season and got it. They are now bottom of the table Flight 1 and marketing to the parents they are applying for NPL this Fall.

 

[ILoveToWatchYouPlay]

I think you are looking at the NorCal system. The SoCal system does not have

Sounds like you are talking about the NorCal League system, which is a bit different than SoCal League system. SoCal does not have NPL2, NPL3. I automaticallt default to the SoCal landscape on here because it is a SoCal Soccer forum. Maybe the OP can clairify what region he is in.

We do indeed reside in SoCal.

 

[Slobodan]

Kinda like restaurant ratings on Yelp.

$$$ or $$$$