Get ready folks

cyclone said:
I don't think many people understand that this affects the non-trapped players as well.

Fortunately, this is a couple years away for my oldest, but this is how I understand it will work (if there are others who have suffered through this already, please correct any mistakes that I've made).

During senior year, those trapped players come down and join the younger team. Those new players will increase the roster size, potentially up to 18+. What if the team was already at 18? Then the team is either making big cuts or it's going to 22+. How does a roster of 22+ work? Many of the players don't suit up for game day. If the team is lucky, their coach will tell them before everyone has to drive to that SD game. If they have a jerk of a coach, they might just get to enjoy a nice weekend vacation to AZ to watch their teammates play (but don't worry, the Papago Park hike is lovely, just go early because it heats up most days).

Trapped players get this awesome experience twice. Not only do they get to enjoy this setup for senior year, they also get to live it their junior year as well.
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Fyi, some boy ECNL teams have 30 players.
 
cyclone said:
I don't think many people understand that this affects the non-trapped players as well.

Fortunately, this is a couple years away for my oldest, but this is how I understand it will work (if there are others who have suffered through this already, please correct any mistakes that I've made).

During senior year, those trapped players come down and join the younger team. Those new players will increase the roster size, potentially up to 18+. What if the team was already at 18? Then the team is either making big cuts or it's going to 22+. How does a roster of 22+ work? Many of the players don't suit up for game day. If the team is lucky, their coach will tell them before everyone has to drive to that SD game. If they have a jerk of a coach, they might just get to enjoy a nice weekend vacation to AZ to watch their teammates play (but don't worry, the Papago Park hike is lovely, just go early because it heats up most days).

Trapped players get this awesome experience twice. Not only do they get to enjoy this setup for senior year, they also get to live it their junior year as well.
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If you haven't signed with a college by your senior year the likelihood that it will happen is fading fast. This goes for both trapped players playing down their senior year and others playing their senior year. So it doesn't matter.

Also once you get to u18/u19 there's all kinds of things players can do on weekends. 30 player rosters mean nothing because it's often hard to get 18 even from that many.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
If you haven't signed with a college by your senior year the likelihood that it will happen is fading fast. This goes for both trapped players playing down their senior year and others playing their senior year. So it doesn't matter.

Also once you get to u18/u19 there's all kinds of things players can do on weekends. 30 player rosters mean nothing because it's often hard to get 18 even from that many.
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Think through the timeline for fall birthday kids. Fall birthday means they are U18/U19 for two years: junior and senior.

A fall birthday kid is eligible to sign on June 15 of their sophomore year. 6 weeks later, they join the U18/U19 team where playing time is hard to get.

Are you really saying that all the fall birthday kids are supposed to get signed inside that 6 week window?
 
dad4 said:
Think through the timeline for fall birthday kids. Fall birthday means they are U18/U19 for two years: junior and senior.

A fall birthday kid is eligible to sign on June 15 of their sophomore year. 6 weeks later, they join the U18/U19 team where playing time is hard to get.

Are you really saying that all the fall birthday kids are supposed to get signed inside that 6 week window?
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Boys and girls are different so I don't know which group you're referring to. But in general yes the top players will get signed earlier fall birthday or not.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
Boys and girls are different so I don't know which group you're referring to. But in general yes the top players will get signed earlier fall birthday or not.
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Same timeline for boys or girls.

June 15 after Sophomore year, kids can talk to college scouts.

Late July, trapped Juniors join the U18/19 team.

Other than the few kids who sign in those first 6 weeks, most trapped players will be doing their recruiting from a U19 team.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
Boys and girls are different so I don't know which group you're referring to. But in general yes the top players will get signed earlier fall birthday or not.
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Boys mostly get recruited (to college) in their senior year. Top level trapped players sometimes earlier as they are already playing U18 in their junior year.
 
Yak said:
Boys mostly get recruited (to college) in their senior year. Top level trapped players sometimes earlier as they are already playing U18 in their junior year.
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Right, this is what I've heard as well. Girls sign sooner which is why I called out boys or girls being signed.
 
Somewhat related to trapped players:

Something I've noticed with my 2010B now that we're into high school season. The 2009 freshman are at a serious advantage, especially if they have a sophomore 2009 club teammate on the team. My kid goes to a school a large high school with a very good soccer program, but there's no frosh/soph team. Around 60ish freshman didn't make the team at least half of which were some level of club.

I do think the coaches mostly picked the strongest players, but it also seems like the tiebreakers went to the 2009s who played club with sophomores on the team, then clubs the coaches have slight biases for. I mean, there's not a whole lot of skill separation between the last 5-10 picked and the first 5-10 out at this school.

All I've heard on the sidelines from the parents of trapped kids is how helpful it's been for them to navigate freshman year with the advice they get from the sophomore kids and their parents for school in general (clubs, social), academics (which teachers are best, tutors), and soccer. These kids have a leg up.

It was rough for my kid at first, but now they're all recruiting him to switch clubs and play up.
 
Code said:
@Offside no S getting angry because he can't understand the difference between being trapped and being offset.
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No, I get it. I'm just tired of hearing people say that the SY change will eliminate trapped players because it's simply not true. Kinda like the people who don't understand that SY includes a 1 calendar year birthdate limit... it's the same as BY, just different dates. Guess it doesn't matter now because US Soccer didn't change anything (yet.)
 
Carlsbad7 said:
I don't think you understand what I wrote.

With BY the 365 day window of eligibility is completely separate from school grade. Because it's not associated with grade in school in any way there's no expectation that players in the same grade will be on the same teams.

With SY the 365 day eligibility window is associated with a grade in school. What this does is create an expectation that players in the same grade in should be on the same teams. You can try to lean into a specific cutoff date but there will ALWAYS be edge cases with SY. The edge case parents will whine and cry about not being able to play with their classmates in school just like the trapped player parents are doing now to BY.

The primary edge case situations are odd school district start dates, parents that hold their kids back in school, and homeschoolers. What these parents will push for is waivers to play on a team that's aligned with their kids grade in school.

If you think I'm overreacting look at Basketball which primarily aligns with SY but without an age cutoff. You end up with a large number of hold back players at the highest levels. This is what WILL happen to youth soccer over time because clubs never want to turn down a potential paying customer.

You don't see it out here (West Coast) as much but on the East Coast it's fairly common and often encouraged by private schools for parents to hold back kids. The schools do it because it's an extra year of tuition. The parents do it for wins in sports and to be better at academics. How do you think clubs will react when an entire team is "off track" in school compared to their age group in club soccer? Oh BTW there's local leagues that will allow these type of big $$$ parents to play with the grade their kid is in school. In this type of area ECNL clubs will be forced to forgo big $$$ parents and their players. How long do you think it will take for ECNL clubs to start asking for some sort of waiver accommodation?
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Oh, I understood you... your point gets lost in misinformation and opinion. The SY proposal that was widely socialized was 8/1 to 7/31. A majority of state Kinder cutoffs are 9/1. It doesn't matter what homeschoolers or hold-backers say, their kid's birthdate has to fit in the 1-year term between the dates they choose.
 
Offside no S said:
Sure, but that's not what I said... yes, there are fewer, but there will still be a number of trapped players with SY. Is is worth rearranging the whole sport for a handful of kids?
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Yes. The change in 2017 (BY) was the change which benefited a handful of kids. A SY change now affects hundreds of thousands and fixes that mistake. Sure there will be a bunch still trapped depending on their particular school start dates. But SY will result in a heckuva lot less trapped kids than what we have now.
 
Offside no S said:
Sure, but that's not what I said... yes, there are fewer, but there will still be a number of trapped players with SY. Is is worth rearranging the whole sport for a handful of kids?
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Handful? Maybe you and I have a different definition of handful...

Assuming the SY cutoff date will be 8/1 if the change is ever made, the only trapped players remaining will be in geographies where school age cutoff is earlier than 8/1 (e.g. if school cutoff is 7/1, July birth date kids will be trapped). Geographies in the US where school start is before 8/1 is a small minority (https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/08/25/back-to-school-dates-u-s/).

Currently, approximate one-third of players are in trapped bucket with the 1/1 BY cutoff (assuming equal participation by month). A change to SY cutoff of 8/1 would reduce the percent of trapped players down to low single digits. Approximately 30% decrease.

Given there are approximately 3.5 million children playing soccer in the US (https://projectplay.org/youth-sports/facts/participation-rates), a 30% reduction represents ~1,000,000 kids impacted. Even if you focus on a subset of the population (age, rec vs club, etc.) or question the assumptions (i.e. participation by month or age is not equal so the improvement would only be 20%), hundreds of thousands of children would still be impacted. And that's only if you look at the current snapshot in time. Factor in the next generation of 3.5 million children, and the next...certainly not my definition of "a handful of kids."
 
Offside no S said:
Sure, but that's not what I said... yes, there are fewer, but there will still be a number of trapped players with SY. Is is worth rearranging the whole sport for a handful of kids?
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It's not a handful of players. It is potentially 40% of the players. There may be a handful of players that continue to be trapped (kids that were held back a year in school....but nothing we can do if parents are holding their kids back). August birthdays are split...but assuming they use August 1...that would eliminate all trapped players except for parents that voluntary held their kids back a year in school. (unless there is a dsitrcit with a july start date?)

I guess I don't understand the opposition to SY...outside of my kid was born in January and I don't want to give up that advantage.
 
SoccerSanDiego said:
Yes. The change in 2017 (BY) was the change which benefited a handful of kids. A SY change now affects hundreds of thousands and fixes that mistake. Sure there will be a bunch still trapped depending on their particular school start dates. But SY will result in a heckuva lot less trapped kids than what we have now.
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Agree. And is it worth not rearranging bc a handful (or even a big handful) of parents/kids cannot handle change? If there's one constant thing in club soccer, it's that change is inevitable.
 
Thatonedad said:
player.captivate.fm

Birth Year vs. School Year

Quickly and easily listen to The Bear and the Ball for free!
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Here is the SOCAL league discussion about SY/BY. Gave league reps, referees, coaches, directors the chance to ask questions and give their opinions.
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Sounds like this is Cal South, not SOCAL. It is a good listen however with some historical participation impacts from the original decision in 2017 and why each option makes sense for a subset of players. 2026 will be interesting if different leagues select different cut-offs.
 
Scrub It Kook said:
Sounds like this is Cal South, not SOCAL. It is a good listen however with some historical participation impacts from the original decision in 2017 and why each option makes sense for a subset of players. 2026 will be interesting if different leagues select different cut-offs.
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I could see a littles league choosing 7/1 because it gives them an advantage and you address 99.9% of all school cutoff dates.

😈
 
There was a lot of speculation on this board that the ECNL clubs would force their teams "play up" thereby making a defacto age switch for their teams as early as 24/25. Not sure if any clubs have started to implement these changes?
 
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