Get ready folks

dad4 said:
I think all the SY proponents here are in favor of a strict cutoff date, like we had before the last change.
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How would you know this?

All the edge cases I described will agree with you because it gets them closer to where they ultimately want to be.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
If you think I'm overreacting look at Basketball which primarily aligns with SY but without an age cutoff. You end up with a large number of hold back players at the highest levels. This is what WILL happen to youth soccer over time because clubs never want to turn down a potential paying customer.
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This isn't accurate. Basketball has an age cutoff in pretty much all circumstances I've seen, and usually states that the player can't be older than age X by date Y, while also stating what grade is eligible (along with what exceptions are possible, and what ages are applicable). The complication comes in that these details vary across tournaments and geographies, so what is the effective cutoff in one circumstance can be very different in another. One example is below. The way the dates & ages are aligned, through the 6th grade division, there aren't as many "holdbacks". But once in 7th grade, the age skips a year, and holdbacks are much more common. This appears to address the fact that once in high school, a talented freshman is going to play against varsity seniors who may be 18/19 anyway.


bball age example.png
 
RandomSoccerFan said:
This isn't accurate. Basketball has an age cutoff in pretty much all circumstances I've seen, and usually states that the player can't be older than age X by date Y, while also stating what grade is eligible (along with what exceptions are possible, and what ages are applicable). The complication comes in that these details vary across tournaments and geographies, so what is the effective cutoff in one circumstance can be very different in another. One example is below. The way the dates & ages are aligned, through the 6th grade division, there aren't as many "holdbacks". But once in 7th grade, the age skips a year, and holdbacks are much more common. This appears to address the fact that once in high school, a talented freshman is going to play against varsity seniors who may be 18/19 anyway.


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So they net is that holding back kids is common in basketball and rules are implemented to accommodate it.

For those that think soccer parents won't hold their kids back for wins if given the opportunity you're sadly mistaken.

Here's a proponent of holding players back 1 and 2 years.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
So they net is that holding back kids is common in basketball and rules are implemented to accommodate it.
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Maybe, but the more pragmatic interpretation is that if you are bringing a team to tournament X to play in the top bracket, it's likely that they will face teams that have players near the top end of whatever the age rules for the tournament specify. Those teams would be expected to do well - while teams that have most or all players not as close to that top end, probably aren't as expected to do well. By 8th grade, if nobody on the team can dunk the basketball - it's not a competitive team.

Also, teams at the very pointy end often enter in age groups one or two years up in many events, to see better competition.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
So they net is that holding back kids is common in basketball and rules are implemented to accommodate it.

For those that think soccer parents won't hold their kids back for wins if given the opportunity you're sadly mistaken.

Here's a proponent of holding players back 1 and 2 years.
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The linked video clearly makes the opposite point, that holding kids back does not affect club sports with fixed age limits. It does affect high school and college, which is why holding back is so common in football where recruitment is more focused on high school compared to soccer.
 
Yak said:
The linked video clearly makes the opposite point, that holding kids back does not affect club sports with fixed age limits. It does affect high school and college, which is why holding back is so common in football where recruitment is more focused on high school compared to soccer.
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Listen to what he said a couple of times. It's worth understanding how high level athletes in other sports approach HS + holding back players.

I agree that for soccer at least in Califirnia recruiters work with clubs and leagues more than high schools when looking for recruits.

SY opens the door ever so slightly for the next level of craziness.

Also the basketball rules clearly accommodated hold backs before HS. This is what some want to happen to youth soccer.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
I don't think you understand what I wrote.

With BY the 365 day window of eligibility is completely separate from school grade. Because it's not associated with grade in school in any way there's no expectation that players in the same grade will be on the same teams.

With SY the 365 day eligibility window is associated with a grade in school. What this does is create an expectation that players in the same grade in should be on the same teams. You can try to lean into a specific cutoff date but there will ALWAYS be edge cases with SY. The edge case parents will whine and cry about not being able to play with their classmates in school just like the trapped player parents are doing now to BY.

The primary edge case situations are odd school district start dates, parents that hold their kids back in school, and homeschoolers. What these parents will push for is waivers to play on a team that's aligned with their kids grade in school.

If you think I'm overreacting look at Basketball which primarily aligns with SY but without an age cutoff. You end up with a large number of hold back players at the highest levels. This is what WILL happen to youth soccer over time because clubs never want to turn down a potential paying customer.

You don't see it out here (West Coast) as much but on the East Coast it's fairly common and often encouraged by private schools for parents to hold back kids. The schools do it because it's an extra year of tuition. The parents do it for wins in sports and to be better at academics. How do you think clubs will react when an entire team is "off track" in school compared to their age group in club soccer? Oh BTW there's local leagues that will allow these type of big $$$ parents to play with the grade their kid is in school. In this type of area ECNL clubs will be forced to forgo big $$$ parents and their players. How long do you think it will take for ECNL clubs to start asking for some sort of waiver accommodation?
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Does anyone know if this issue of holding back kids was present in youth soccer prior to the 2017 change to BY?

While I agree that parents with money will always push their agenda, if US Soccer mandated the cutoffs I think there would be less impact than letting each league dictate their cutoffs. There seems to be too much wiggle room with every league picking their own date and opens the door for these waiver requests.
 
Scrub It Kook said:
Does anyone know if this issue of holding back kids was present in youth soccer prior to the 2017 change to BY?

While I agree that parents with money will always push their agenda, if US Soccer mandated the cutoffs I think there would be less impact than letting each league dictate their cutoffs. There seems to be too much wiggle room with every league picking their own date and opens the door for these waiver requests.
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I do know many of the rich parents with private school kids got a waiver back in 2017 so their kid could play in the GDA and High School Soccer. Rich people will always look for a waiver to savier the moment and make sure their kid plays.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
So they net is that holding back kids is common in basketball and rules are implemented to accommodate it.

For those that think soccer parents won't hold their kids back for wins if given the opportunity you're sadly mistaken.

Here's a proponent of holding players back 1 and 2 years.
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at the highest level - the girls are doing the opposite. the true unicorns are reclassifying and graduating a year early.
 
Thatonedad said:
A SY change definitely doesn’t eliminate issues with trapped players but it does drastically limit the amount of kids effected, also prevents an 18 month age gap and large roster issues for the U19 groups.
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The large roster issue doesn't happen just once for the trapped players. They face it the last two years of their club careers: First, during their junior year when and the older trapped players drop to their team; and second, as a senior and they have to drop to the younger team.

This doesn't affect just 2-3 players a year. This is 5/12 or 41% of the players. This is two years of playing on a team with maybe 22 players. Sure, maybe the senior year doesn't matter so much. But chances are that the junior year will be critically important - and these kids will be jockeying for playing time at a game in AZ against teammates that don't care and may choose not to show up with no notice.
 
fms said:
at the highest level - the girls are doing the opposite. the true unicorns are reclassifying and graduating a year early.
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What you're describing is different and exactly the same in both BY and SY.

Players that are "playing up" get noticed by a recruiter. The recruiter says if you only graduated in XYZ year we'd give you a spot on the team. The player respondes by saying that I'll GED tomorrow if I can sign with a scholorship today.
 
Honestly the only reason I like BY is it was always easy to say my kid is an 05. When they made the change she was 11. They took two teams of 04 and 05 and reorganized. She was a top player before, a top player after. She also played up for a few tournaments with 02's. Once in High School, you have grade level and play with any age on the school teams. I do know it was difficult for a few girls that were 05's but a year lower in High School. At least on the girls side, a change shouldn't affect the recruiting of players as they have developed much earlier than the guys.
 
The best thing a kid can do to play college ball is to get great grades, love school, stay out of trouble and love the game of soccer. No need to have Susie repeat 8th grade. The deals are there for any player. The good news today many girls have options to go Pro, even before high school if they so choose.
 
cyclone said:
Maybe it's because it's the first topic that's been worth discussing for a certain set of people?
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You mean you weren't tempted to chime in on a daily basis on whether that 2010 striker has switched from Elite Super Club from Premier academy?
;)
 
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