Women's CONCACAF World Cup Qualifying

[NorCalDad]

Spain has come a long way with their DD development/program.. Their national team is very fun to watch and very good. Thanks mostly to Barca. But I guess I don't know what this proves. The best (maybe) girls in the state of NJ lost to the best girls in Spain? Maybe there is a better team in Spain but highly unlikely.

This game turns out differently if playing the YNT in this age group.

For me it shows what we should be striving for and what is possible. My understanding is PDA is an incredibly strong club as well, I mean they made it to the finals in this tournament. La Liga on the woman's side has 16 clubs, surely they have 16 U16 academy teams as well? I suspect not all of the girls on that FCB team are from Spain, but I suspect most are. Spain has a population of 47 million. Why pit a U17 USWNT against them? What would that prove?

FCB here was clearly just a better coached team. PDA had no chance in this game. Possession was likely 70-80% FCB and I saw PDA get at least two yellow cards. You could see clear as day the decision making by the FCB players.

 

[GoldenGate]

To a casual observer or disinterested soccer fan, this is probably not a problem. I know a lot of parents on the sideline that aren’t interested and don’t understand soccer. That’s fine. I rarely watch the same sports I grew up with. But, most of us have players somewhere in the pipeline, with dreams and goals, and we’re all invested personally and monetarily. Maybe a minority of us are frustrated and voice it: the corruption, literal pay to play, terrible and toxic coaching, fraud, favoritism, and the belief that while our players give 100%, the system is half-ass and underperforming. Some of us are also fans of the beautiful game. USWNT is not playing to my personal satisfaction. So what, if a country 10x the size of Canada and pouring billions more into youth soccer than the entire gdp of Haiti, can barrel it’s way to a 1-0 win! I guess these are first world problems anyway.

Relax, or before you know it you will find that you squandered the best years a parent could ever have with their daughter, just like crush.

Youth soccer is not rampant with toxic coaching, fraud, or corruption. It is, however, rampant with hardworking and underpaid people doing the best they can with limited resources to help kids. Also, "favoritism" is easily avoidable if your daughter is any good and you aren't an a**hole like crush who burned every bridge imaginable. But also understand that "favoritism" is an appropriate right for those who actually step up to the plate to do the work, compared to people like you who just throw tantrums that you can't get everything you want without having to pay for what things cost.

Speaking of that, enough with this "pay to play" nonsense. You live in the only country on this planet where girls youth soccer is accessible at every conceivable level and price point. If you don't want to pay for soccer, feel free to play school soccer that does not exist in other countries, or find pickup games in the park, or futsal at the church or YMCA, or play AYSO or any of the other million inexpensive club options. When people like you complain incessantly about "pay to play", what you are really complaining about is that Pep Guardiola won't coach your little princess for free.

As for the "beautiful game", it is time you learned that winning soccer on the women's side is not beautiful, at least not what you think is beautiful. The WNT has always excelled due to superior athleticism, strength and speed. With the one feel good exception of Japan getting insanely lucky once, no team has ever won the WC playing what you call "pretty soccer". Effective soccer on the women's side requires a lot of direct play and overwhelming physicality, and that is how it is. Maybe you think doily soccer is pretty, but people who know what they're talking about understand that sledgehammers are far prettier and useful.

 

[Kicker 2.0]

Spain has come a long way with their DD development/program.. Their national team is very fun to watch and very good. Thanks mostly to Barca. But I guess I don't know what this proves. The best (maybe) girls in the state of NJ lost to the best girls in Spain? Maybe there is a better team in Spain but highly unlikely.

This game turns out differently if playing the YNT in this age group.

But not by much….2019 u16 USA lost a friendly to Spain 2-1. Spain was incredibly balanced and jumped out to a quick lead. It was our 1st match 2 days after “jumping the pond” and took our girls some time to settle in.

I believe countries like Spain, England and France have geographic advantages (National Team level) as well as financial advantages (Club Level) over the US.

Geographic - when you can bring 36 girls in from around the country with max 3 hours of travel time it is far more convenient so they can train together more frequently and for much less money and/or strain on the player. For example, when in England for those 2019 friendlies I was speaking to a Dad of a girl in England who told me they train once sometimes 2x a month over a 2/3 day weekend. They take a train into St. George’s on Friday and are home by Monday having out in 2 full days of training.

Financial - you can add up the revenue from the MLS and NWSL and still not touch the financial resources of the big clubs (ie Barcelona) that are being channeled into their youth programs. When they can pull kids from around the country in an Academy setting often most of those same girls end up playing together on the National team (see Senior National team w/ 9 from Barcelona and 8 from Real Madrid).

These 2 factors alone equate to a developmental advantage for these smaller European counties that have a far deeper soccer culture.

 

[Happened again]

But not by much….2019 u16 USA lost a friendly to Spain 2-1. Spain was incredibly balanced and jumped out to a quick lead. It was our 1st match 2 days after “jumping the pond” and took our girls some time to settle in.

I believe countries like Spain, England and France have geographic advantages (National Team level) as well as financial advantages (Club Level) over the US.

Geographic - when you can bring 36 girls in from around the country with max 3 hours of travel time it is far more convenient so they can train together more frequently and for much less money and/or strain on the player. For example, when in England for those 2019 friendlies I was speaking to a Dad of a girl in England who told me they train once sometimes 2x a month over a 2/3 day weekend. They take a train into St. George’s on Friday and are home by Monday having out in 2 full days of training.

Financial - you can add up the revenue from the MLS and NWSL and still not touch the financial resources of the big clubs (ie Barcelona) that are being channeled into their youth programs. When they can pull kids from around the country in an Academy setting often most of those same girls end up playing together on the National team (see Senior National team w/ 9 from Barcelona and 8 from Real Madrid).

These 2 factors alone equate to a developmental advantage for these smaller European counties that have a far deeper soccer culture.

We will see. I'm all about seeing great competion. Anytime a US YNT loses (which is rare and likely in unfavorable conditions) we (parents, supporters, fans) declare that everyone is catching up.

WE fund our girls, WE put them on the path early on. Again, good competition is a good thing, parity as a fan of the sport is awesome. I personally don't think other countries will ever truly catch up but there will be moments when we lose. Even MJ lost but he was still the most dominant form in b-ball.

 

[Happened again]

For me it shows what we should be striving for and what is possible. My understanding is PDA is an incredibly strong club as well, I mean they made it to the finals in this tournament. La Liga on the woman's side has 16 clubs, surely they have 16 U16 academy teams as well? I suspect not all of the girls on that FCB team are from Spain, but I suspect most are. Spain has a population of 47 million. Why pit a U17 USWNT against them? What would that prove?

FCB here was clearly just a better coached team. PDA had no chance in this game. Possession was likely 70-80% FCB and I saw PDA get at least two yellow cards. You could see clear as day the decision making by the FCB players.

Sure, I don't disagree. PDA is a great club with plenty of pedigree. They also have multiple teams. But they are one of many reputable top tier clubs in the US. Barca is a completely different animal with much better funding to attract better coaches....My point is at the national level, the gap between countries, especially at the younger age groups, is still large. And will be for some time. Maybe forever. Take the U16 YNT and play them against the ECNL or GA natty champs, the game would likely be lopsided. Sure, some of those league players will be on the YNT but you get my drift.

I would love for our clubs to be as well funded as the La Liga or EPL Academies are. Not a chance that happens. It's up to you, me, and capitalism to fund our clubs and leagues.

 

[NorCalDad]

Sure, I don't disagree. PDA is a great club with plenty of pedigree. They also have multiple teams. But they are one of many reputable top tier clubs in the US. Barca is a completely different animal with much better funding to attract better coaches....My point is at the national level, the gap between countries, especially at the younger age groups, is still large. And will be for some time. Maybe forever. Take the U16 YNT and play them against the ECNL or GA natty champs, the game would likely be lopsided. Sure, some of those league players will be on the YNT but you get my drift.

I would love for our clubs to be as well funded as the La Liga or EPL Academies are. Not a chance that happens. It's up to you, me, and capitalism to fund our clubs and leagues.

I guess I would hope all top level clubs in the US would be teaching a system similar to the way FCB played in that video. I don't even know if this requires a significant overhaul or even more money. My take is we're in this spin cycle with the bigger, faster, stronger, direct play model and few have attempted to get out of it due to the inherent risk it impacts their employment. Frankly parents/players should be demanding higher quality of play -- letting the coaches know they value that over wins/loses.

 

[oh canada]

Get used to this type of soccer from the national team. US women only interested in technical players for the 8 and 10 positions. Everyone else it's all about how fast you can run 20mtrs and 40mtrs. So, what do you get? A LOT of missed shots, missed passes, turnovers, and long-balls. S.Smith had a wide open net and missed the entire rectangle. Canada's finishing awful too.

Huerta doesn't belong on that field and it showed. Sinclair for Canada needs to retire. Subbed on defender for Canada is the one who commits the soft foul. Morgan gets the glory for the goal but she did very little throughout the game. Nice PK under pressure, but there are 100s of other women in this country that can do that. Horan and Lavelle best on the field for US. Canada keeper was their star.

There was a time when a 1-0 PK win against hockey-loving Canada would be viewed as a disappointment. Now you'd think they won the WC. Both sides get a D+ for their grade. C- in today's world of high school grade inflation.

 

[Happened again]

I guess I would hope all top level clubs in the US would be teaching a system similar to the way FCB played in that video. I don't even know if this requires a significant overhaul or even more money. My take is we're in this spin cycle with the bigger, faster, stronger, direct play model and few have attempted to get out of it due to the inherent risk it impacts their employment. Frankly parents/players should be demanding higher quality of play -- letting the coaches know they value that over wins/loses.

Winning drives our soccer culture, not style. There are thousands of clubs in this country and many very good coaches. Possesion, confidence on the ball, etc will get you plenty of Ls at the younger ages. The "beautfiul" game isn't really understood by most parents - most never toed a ball in their life. What you saw from Barca were skills developed at very early age, confidence in first touch, and confidence on the ball under pressure, especially from their back line (I'm assuming, since I didn't really watch the vidoe).

Demand what ever you want but SD surf (insert other top national club) is not going to lose games at U13 and risk their populaton moving to their competition. Parents want to win, they don't like losers who play a boring ,unathletic ulittle soccer scheme. Kick that ball down the field, get it into the final third, have your faster than everyone Ulittle center forward body everyone off the ball and score. Scoring is much more exciting to most parents than building out of the back.

There are clubs out there that teach pretty soccer at an early age. Those kids eventually move on from those clubs and join teams in leagues that get better face time with college coaches...such is life in the US youth soccer scene.

HS is different from club, the NCAA varies by school (their style). US soccer last night slanted more direct than possession. We will see what Vlad has on tap for the next game. He has the athletes and the experience on the field to move in either direction.

 

[GoldenGate]

But not by much….2019 u16 USA lost a friendly to Spain 2-1. Spain was incredibly balanced and jumped out to a quick lead. It was our 1st match 2 days after “jumping the pond” and took our girls some time to settle in.

I believe countries like Spain, England and France have geographic advantages (National Team level) as well as financial advantages (Club Level) over the US.

Geographic - when you can bring 36 girls in from around the country with max 3 hours of travel time it is far more convenient so they can train together more frequently and for much less money and/or strain on the player. For example, when in England for those 2019 friendlies I was speaking to a Dad of a girl in England who told me they train once sometimes 2x a month over a 2/3 day weekend. They take a train into St. George’s on Friday and are home by Monday having out in 2 full days of training.

Financial - you can add up the revenue from the MLS and NWSL and still not touch the financial resources of the big clubs (ie Barcelona) that are being channeled into their youth programs. When they can pull kids from around the country in an Academy setting often most of those same girls end up playing together on the National team (see Senior National team w/ 9 from Barcelona and 8 from Real Madrid).

These 2 factors alone equate to a developmental advantage for these smaller European counties that have a far deeper soccer culture.

Yes, other countries definitely have a far deeper soccer culture than the US if you don't count the 400,000 girls, 40,000 collegians and roughly 300 professional Americans who play soccer. And if you ignore that the US has won half the WCs ever played. WTF are you talking about? Trying to mansplain that men's soccer is important but we should ignore the entire history of women's soccer when we decide what actually constitutes "soccer culture"?

The US has built a powerhouse of NT soccer based on having so many more girls play the sport at a higher level and for more years than any other country in the world. The US has the most dominant women's system by a mile and a half. But you want to abandon it because you have some fantasy notion that countries that have never won anything in their history are doing things right and we aren't? Do you even know what a country like Spain actually does on the girls side? Let me tell you. There is no soccer culture for girls. There is no hope of being a big deal playing HS. There is no hope of using soccer to leverage and help finance your college education. There are also maybe 5 remotely decent soccer clubs for girls in the entire country, compared to over 100 in the US. For most, there is no chance of ever being able to play at any remotely high level. And even if you want to play for most youth academies, I also hope you have 20,000 euros (See FC Malaga City Femenino | Elite Level Women's Football Programme), or live close to one of the very few that don't make you pay a fortune. And even then, please tell me the names of all these super great girls youth coaches in Spain. Or just one. There are also maybe ten 20 year old Spanish women who play competitive soccer in Spain, while there are more than 10,000 in the U.S.

 

[GoldenGate]

Winning drives our soccer culture, not style. There are thousands of clubs in this country and many very good coaches. Possesion, confidence on the ball, etc will get you plenty of Ls at the younger ages. The "beautfiul" game isn't really understood by most parents - most never toed a ball in their life. What you saw from Barca were skills developed at very early age, confidence in first touch, and confidence on the ball under pressure, especially from their back line (I'm assuming, since I didn't really watch the vidoe).

Demand what ever you want but SD surf (insert other top national club) is not going to lose games at U13 and risk their populaton moving to their competition. Parents want to win, they don't like losers who play a boring ,unathletic ulittle soccer scheme. Kick that ball down the field, get it into the final third, have your faster than everyone Ulittle center forward body everyone off the ball and score. Scoring is much more exciting to most parents than building out of the back.

There are clubs out there that teach pretty soccer at an early age. Those kids eventually move on from those clubs and join teams in leagues that get better face time with college coaches...such is life in the US youth soccer scene.

HS is different from club, the NCAA varies by school (their style). US soccer last night slanted more direct than possession. We will see what Vlad has on tap for the next game. He has the athletes and the experience on the field to move in either direction.

IKR. If only we could take all of the competitive spirit out of kids and turn them into soccer drones, the US would definitely become better than the miserable squads that have won the last two WCs. We definitely need to drive as many children as possible out of the sport by taking all the fun out of it. Youth sports is not about fun. It is about doing everything possible for little girls with enough ability and dedication to nab one of those lucrative contracts that their predecessors like Messi and Neymar get.

 

[LASTMAN14]

As I mentioned on a previous pos this debate is not a new one here. So, I will keep my point simple and direct. The USWNT can not sit on its merits it must evolve. Many nations in some ways have caught up and are evolving. The US process of development is splintered and does not promote development rather just winning. We can discuss that USWNT will remain dominate but for how long when sitting idle?

 

[Happened again]

IKR. If only we could take all of the competitive spirit out of kids and turn them into soccer drones, the US would definitely become better than the miserable squads that have won the last two WCs. We definitely need to drive as many children as possible out of the sport by taking all the fun out of it. Youth sports is not about fun. It is about doing everything possible for little girls with enough ability and dedication to nab one of those lucrative contracts that their predecessors like Messi and Neymar get.

This thread was going just fine until you showed up. go back to your hole por favor.

 

[Kicker 2.0]

Yes, other countries definitely have a far deeper soccer culture than the US if you don't count the 400,000 girls, 40,000 collegians and roughly 300 professional Americans who play soccer. And if you ignore that the US has won half the WCs ever played. WTF are you talking about? Trying to mansplain that men's soccer is important but we should ignore the entire history of women's soccer when we decide what actually constitutes "soccer culture"?

The US has built a powerhouse of NT soccer based on having so many more girls play the sport at a higher level and for more years than any other country in the world. The US has the most dominant women's system by a mile and a half. But you want to abandon it because you have some fantasy notion that countries that have never won anything in their history are doing things right and we aren't? Do you even know what a country like Spain actually does on the girls side? Let me tell you. There is no soccer culture for girls. There is no hope of being a big deal playing HS. There is no hope of using soccer to leverage and help finance your college education. There are also maybe 5 remotely decent soccer clubs for girls in the entire country, compared to over 100 in the US. For most, there is no chance of ever being able to play at any remotely high level. And even if you want to play for most youth academies, I also hope you have 20,000 euros (See FC Malaga City Femenino | Elite Level Women's Football Programme), or live close to one of the very few that don't make you pay a fortune. And even then, please tell me the names of all these super great girls youth coaches in Spain. Or just one. There are also maybe ten 20 year old Spanish women who play competitive soccer in Spain, while there are more than 10,000 in the U.S.

You’re just too stupid to realize we agree…except on the Culture part.

 

[GoldenGate]

This thread was going just fine until you showed up. go back to your hole por favor.

So sorry for getting in the way of everyone's pity party. Everyone feel free to continue babbling about how the USWNT would have been much better if only they'd gone with circus jugglers instead of real athletes, about how Spain has it all figured out on the women's side, and how women's soccer culture doesn't count because they're just women.

 

[NorCalDad]

Yes, other countries definitely have a far deeper soccer culture than the US if you don't count the 400,000 girls, 40,000 collegians and roughly 300 professional Americans who play soccer. And if you ignore that the US has won half the WCs ever played. WTF are you talking about? Trying to mansplain that men's soccer is important but we should ignore the entire history of women's soccer when we decide what actually constitutes "soccer culture"?

The US has built a powerhouse of NT soccer based on having so many more girls play the sport at a higher level and for more years than any other country in the world. The US has the most dominant women's system by a mile and a half. But you want to abandon it because you have some fantasy notion that countries that have never won anything in their history are doing things right and we aren't? Do you even know what a country like Spain actually does on the girls side? Let me tell you. There is no soccer culture for girls. There is no hope of being a big deal playing HS. There is no hope of using soccer to leverage and help finance your college education. There are also maybe 5 remotely decent soccer clubs for girls in the entire country, compared to over 100 in the US. For most, there is no chance of ever being able to play at any remotely high level. And even if you want to play for most youth academies, I also hope you have 20,000 euros (See FC Malaga City Femenino | Elite Level Women's Football Programme), or live close to one of the very few that don't make you pay a fortune. And even then, please tell me the names of all these super great girls youth coaches in Spain. Or just one. There are also maybe ten 20 year old Spanish women who play competitive soccer in Spain, while there are more than 10,000 in the U.S.

You don't think every single one of those FCB players in that video wouldn't be recruited by US colleges? I mean on the men's side it's not atypical to see half the roster filled with players from out of the US. Why wouldn't that happen here? I do think for the majority of players our collegiate system is great as most players will never go pro and it's a great way to continue playing while gaining an education that will ultimately be used to traverse life. You really don't hear too much about the European academy players that don't make it to the first team.

 

[NorCalDad]

Winning drives our soccer culture, not style. There are thousands of clubs in this country and many very good coaches. Possesion, confidence on the ball, etc will get you plenty of Ls at the younger ages. The "beautfiul" game isn't really understood by most parents - most never toed a ball in their life. What you saw from Barca were skills developed at very early age, confidence in first touch, and confidence on the ball under pressure, especially from their back line (I'm assuming, since I didn't really watch the vidoe).

Demand what ever you want but SD surf (insert other top national club) is not going to lose games at U13 and risk their populaton moving to their competition. Parents want to win, they don't like losers who play a boring ,unathletic ulittle soccer scheme. Kick that ball down the field, get it into the final third, have your faster than everyone Ulittle center forward body everyone off the ball and score. Scoring is much more exciting to most parents than building out of the back.

There are clubs out there that teach pretty soccer at an early age. Those kids eventually move on from those clubs and join teams in leagues that get better face time with college coaches...such is life in the US youth soccer scene.

HS is different from club, the NCAA varies by school (their style). US soccer last night slanted more direct than possession. We will see what Vlad has on tap for the next game. He has the athletes and the experience on the field to move in either direction.

I've seen a lot of youngers with the kind of skills necessary to match the level of the FCB team. Their downside is they're on the smaller side and not the stereotypical player clubs generally pick. I think we could most definitely get there.

 

[NorCalDad]

So sorry for getting in the way of everyone's pity party. Everyone feel free to continue babbling about how the USWNT would have been much better if only they'd gone with circus jugglers instead of real athletes, about how Spain has it all figured out on the women's side, and how women's soccer culture doesn't count because they're just women.

I don't think anyone has said any of that.

USWNT has done wonders for woman's soccer worldwide. A lot of these European countries would not even be bothering with the woman's side if it weren't for the influence of the USWNT.

I'd be willing to bet we could take your comments and see parallels to the era of Pele around Brasil's style of play, or for that matter any of the multitudes of innovations in the sport. I'm sure most have read "Inverting the Pyramid", but if not, it's an excellent read.

 

[Happened again]

So sorry for getting in the way of everyone's pity party. Everyone feel free to continue babbling about how the USWNT would have been much better if only they'd gone with circus jugglers instead of real athletes, about how Spain has it all figured out on the women's side, and how women's soccer culture doesn't count because they're just women.

you are so ridiculousy dumb - very endearing. Philosphically I'm closer to your opinion than everyone else who's chimed in. The difference is you are just dumb and irritating. To ignore you go. Hopefully everyone else follows suit and you will be relegated to talking to the wall.

 

[VanMan]

I mean watch this:

What's interesting is that Surf brought in a new Technical Director for the Girls' side a couple months after this game for the express purpose of transitioning to a more possession/build up style of play.

 

[paytoplay]

"favoritism" is easily avoidable if your daughter is any good and you aren't an a**hole like crush who burned every bridge imaginable. But also understand that "favoritism" is an appropriate right for those who actually step up to the plate to do the work, compared to people like you who just throw tantrums that you can't get everything you want without having to pay for what things cost.

Speaking of that, enough with this "pay to play" nonsense. You live in the only country on this planet where girls youth soccer is accessible at every conceivable level and price point. If you don't want to pay for soccer, feel free to play school soccer that does not exist in other countries,

Burn bridges? In other words, the gatekeepers have massive egos. They will resort to cancel culture if not shown the proper respect by the player’s parent or guardian. If the parent dares to say something on the internet, or if the parent’s name comes up in a conversation somewhere, that player will be punished on the field. Got it. The hard work is actually done by the highly skilled coaches and not the players risking acl tears or balancing school work with their athletics. Understood. So, pay to play soccer exists for the benefit of the club and not really for any player development. That’s what I thought. Thanks for the club perspective. It really lets us know what is important.