ECNL Expansion In Socal SW Division

whatithink said:
I'm not sure about your view on the DS 07s. DS won state cup at U11, then dropped 4/5 players & recruited half a team from CCV (who had won the league and didn't play state cup). That U12 team is their core group even now afaik. They have added/lost 1/2 players a year since then. They skipped U13, played up at U14, and then played U14 proper in GA etc. They may be the best 07 team in the state, but they don't play the other 07 teams and don't have as hard a schedule being in GA vs the SoCal ECNL division as those other teams have. So, I'm not sure why some people think they are (I've seen a few state that), and until they play the other teams (unlikely), we won't know.

IMV, middle schoolers on travel teams is just silly. U13/14 should be discounted. Royals had the "best" U13 (08) team last year .. they lost a couple of players & are the worse this year (of ECNL teams) - at that age, a year can make a huge difference in physical development, IQ and with some good coaching. As was said above, it doesn't matter until U15 or even U16, so I doubt DS care that much and are just building a core group and will recruit.

If they keep placing their players into good colleges, then they will attract good players - that is the point after all (for many).
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No doubt DelSol has some talented players (as you mentioned that same core group from U12/13 age group). Their new players, and yes they have done well with them, but they are players cut from RSL and Rising. They added an Arsenal player this year and one who left for Rising came back mid-year. They have not yet recruited a top player from one of the 3 ECNL clubs to come play for them. Could it happen this year, maybe? Their core group of players are without a doubt among the top girls in the state. But if I was one of those parents, I would be moving my child to ECNL without question.
 
whatithink said:
I'm not sure about your view on the DS 07s. DS won state cup at U11, then dropped 4/5 players & recruited half a team from CCV (who had won the league and didn't play state cup). That U12 team is their core group even now afaik. They have added/lost 1/2 players a year since then. They skipped U13, played up at U14, and then played U14 proper in GA etc. They may be the best 07 team in the state, but they don't play the other 07 teams and don't have as hard a schedule being in GA vs the SoCal ECNL division as those other teams have. So, I'm not sure why some people think they are (I've seen a few state that), and until they play the other teams (unlikely), we won't know.

IMV, middle schoolers on travel teams is just silly. U13/14 should be discounted. Royals had the "best" U13 (08) team last year .. they lost a couple of players & are the worse this year (of ECNL teams) - at that age, a year can make a huge difference in physical development, IQ and with some good coaching. As was said above, it doesn't matter until U15 or even U16, so I doubt DS care that much and are just building a core group and will recruit.

If they keep placing their players into good colleges, then they will attract good players - that is the point after all (for many).
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Great point about the 07 GA record VS others (which they don't have a track record against). They did very well in Florida against other top GA teams. They pass the eye test on the field but would be nice to see them play top ECNL 07 teams. We will never know until they run into an ECNL 07 team at a tournament. A few 07s traveled with the 06s during thanksgiving and played very well against ECNL teams, wining 2 of 3 games. I'm pretty sure some families who left have come back to the 07 team after their experiences elsewhere.

DS just doesn't place emphasis on their youngers. U15 is where/ what they target. Sometimes they miss, most of the time they hit. College placements will continue and we will likley still be questioning their methods. Matters not , until it does.
 
soccermom74 said:
No doubt DelSol has some talented players (as you mentioned that same core group from U12/13 age group). Their new players, and yes they have done well with them, but they are players cut from RSL and Rising. They added an Arsenal player this year and one who left for Rising came back mid-year. They have not yet recruited a top player from one of the 3 ECNL clubs to come play for them. Could it happen this year, maybe? Their core group of players are without a doubt among the top girls in the state. But if I was one of those parents, I would be moving my child to ECNL without question.
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I guess I would ask why? They win, have a good coach, have good chemistry, and the club has a history of college placement. Would you move just because of the letters? Now, if DS was staying in the GA MW conference, that's a great reason to move. Travel to NM and CO is just silly.

Both leagues are going to get exposure via their showcases. But I get it if the letters matter, and it matters to some. Coaching also matters. End of the day it comes down to the parents and how happy they are with their coach/club. I don't have much insight but appears the 07 team (the 06s and 05s also) are quite happy where they and what the future looks like. DS will be looking to recruit 08s and 09s for next year. It's just what they do. Until others do better than them, they will continue.

Recruiting "cut" players is a great thing. Sometimes kids need change and coaches who recognize/see something that others don't. Those players tend to thrive and grow. Sometimes you don't need to recruit the unicorns, you need to recruit team members. Clubs spend a lot of time trying to recruit the unicorn and forget they have to build a team.
 
Desert Hound said:
And again in the past del Sol didn't have to recruit hard. Kids/parents wanted to go there. It was the best club. They have the BEST platform and the best teams.

They have issues now.

1) Parents/kids know where the best platform for competition is. It is NOT the GA in this area. ECNL clubs will and are getting the top players. Remember the last year Royals were in the GA? They basically blew away the competition in most every age group. They had a ridiculously good record across age groups. Now that they are back in the ECNL? Lower half of the division in most cases. In other words they are facing far better competition and the record reflects it.

2) If you are going to get better you need to practice and play vs better competition. Kids/Parents will naturally gravitate towards that platform and clubs.

3) The above issues show why the 2 most recent (youngest teams) at del Sol don't even have a win this season in a league that has weaker competition vs the ECNL in this area. They are not getting the good players anymore.

4) The good players will not be interested in joining a team that cannot win and gets blown out when they can go to one of the ECNL clubs. Those 2 youngest teams are unlikely to make big improvements next year. There is a club in the SW ECNL division whose teams regularly get blown out. The best kids in the area are not looking to join those teams. If anything the best players on that club are looking to get out and get on a team that is competitive.

5) It is unlikely the trend will change next year with del Sol's newest entry team suddenly full of talent. Those kids coming in next year are looking to play in the top league in the area and practice with and play against the best competition. Most of the best talent will flow to one of the three ECNL clubs.

del Sol has the 2nd best league offering in the Valley. Their recruiting related to their 2 youngest teams reflects that.

The reality is this. If your kid is good, you are not starting off your search with del Sol. You are looking to one of the 3 ECNL clubs in the area.
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I appreciate your position and will continue to disagree with most of it. Your premise is that the health of a club is based on the talent of their 13 year olds. I disagree with that premise. I will agree with you when the ECNL U15/16 teams in AZ are the best teams. Today, and since the inception of the GA, those teams reside in DS. Maybe there will be a mass migration of those players to Rising and RSL, but that is doubtful. The older teams have migrated talent between 3 clubs for the last few years, with RSL clearly on top.

We will reconvene this time next year, after tryouts and a half season in the bag to see where the U15s/U16s are.
 
what-happened said:
I appreciate your position and will continue to disagree with most of it. Your premise is that the health of a club is based on the talent of their 13 year olds. I disagree with that premise.
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What I am saying is if you watch the club over many years, they used to have the top teams at 13 and 14. They started off strong and got stronger from there. The best players in the Valley knew they had the best teams and wanted to go there.

Sereno picked up the scraps. There were no other clubs to choose from.

They did this during the ECNL years...year after year. When they got DA it still happened...though at a reduced rate once Royals picked up there game. So they started off with a very strong foundation in their early year teams. That is a fact.

With GA it is a complete reversal. Now the top kids do not go there at the entry years. They go to the other ECNL clubs. That is where the majority will stay.

A few years ago I said del Sol will suffer with only offering GA. Last years entry team showed that to be true.

This year both the entry team and the 2nd year team are terrible. Bad beginning of a trend.

I suspect next year they are not going to field a good entry level team, and neither of the current bad teams will improve much. The reality is there is not much interest in joining a team going into their 3 yr (next year) who has won I think 1 game in the past 2 yrs.

The perception and reality is that kids/parents are not looking at del Sol as a destination. They see the current entry teams being not even CLOSE to being competitive. They know GA in this area is 2nd tier vs ECNL.

If you don't think that means trouble for del Sol...think again.

I think likely next year you see the youngest 3 age groups with very poor records. There is nothing to indicate kids want to go to the current 2 teams, nor any reason for entry level kids who are the best talent would pick del Sol and a secondary league vs going with and ECNL club.

Here is the decision pattern del Sol is up against.

- Parent looking around. What is the top league?
- Why would I send my kid to a club that plays in a league with inferior competition?
- What clubs seems to have the majority of the best players coming in?

All those questions and similar ones run against del Sol.
 
Perception/reality hurts the del Sol offer.

- Best kids are going to the ECNL clubs in the area right now
- When clubs in the SW GA have/had a chance they leave GA for ECNL. Royals didn't shut the door behind them they moved so fast. Beach/Legends preferred to play in ecRl last year in order to get into ECNL this year. Pats didn't bother with GA this year at all. They wanted and got ECNL.

The reality is WHY would you pick del Sol right now if your kid is getting recruited by one of the local ECNL clubs?

That is what they are up against.
 
Desert Hound said:
Perception/reality hurts the del Sol offer.

- Best kids are going to the ECNL clubs in the area right now
- When clubs in the SW GA have/had a chance they leave GA for ECNL. Royals didn't shut the door behind them they moved so fast. Beach/Legends preferred to play in ecRl last year in order to get into ECNL this year. Pats didn't bother with GA this year at all. They wanted and got ECNL.

The reality is WHY would you pick del Sol right now if your kid is getting recruited by one of the local ECNL clubs?

That is what they are up against.
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Hound, you sound like some of the old Docs trying to get me to leave my dd non ecnl club for the top Ecnl clubs in the county sales pitches. The fact is, you're 100% correct. The best will leave for greener pasture in 6th grade unless they have the best coach and program and just can't get invited to the top league. Most of the Euro leagues have three or four divisions. You don't get a rich dad buying his way into top division because he has some extra money. No, the rich dad would have to start a club and find his way to Tier 4 and then win his way to top league by winning at each division and not paying to get to the top. However, I also believe the girls who stay at the non-ecnl club will improve because they can now get the playing time that would have been hard to come by with the top players who leave for ECNL. I was sold about the DA before most of the parents even heard of it. We have a few on here that knew but most had no clue. You knew and that is obvious. You know your stuff and AZ really well. When the GDA was finally announced, ECNL became #2 over night and second class citizen and loser and why would anyone play in that ECNL league, just like GAL was and now GA is experiencing. Everyone was begging to make the first cut of this new GDA. It was the new shinny toy and parents with lot's of extra money love new things and 25% starts for their little one. It was genius move to cause disruption and confusion to the masses. Blues was told they have to fully fund their GDA program or or lose it all, plus have "A" License coaches that don;t yell and scream at females all day, stop playing kickball with the likes of Sanchez, Jackson, Rodman or Turner to runi them down and score goals. On top of that, they better have their own fields. The Ranch told Blues, "sorry, no more fields for you" at the same time so the timing was just horrible for all the top players going into 7th grade around OC and socal. Galaxy and Pats were 100% fully funded and offering it to anyone who was willing to go all in 100% soccer player and no way can play high school soccer or other sports. Nothing but soccer because the world was watching. I also believe Legends was fully funded. It was sold and told to all of us that all girls DA Program needed to be fully funded, just like the boys. Equality was sold hard and the girls would be trained like the boys as well, full time soccer, 4 days a week and soccer soccer and more soccer all the time and no other sports or boyfriends for that matter and one game a week by the way ((originally was one game you guys but changed quickly, just like the waiver deal for girls at private high schools. Surf was 50/50 fully funded but was told the following year need to be fully funded. Fully funded went away quickly because 95% of the clubs would have lost serious money and some clubs bailed back to second class ECNL. Today, It's ECNL or else.....
 
Desert Hound said:
Perception/reality hurts the del Sol offer.

- Best kids are going to the ECNL clubs in the area right now
- When clubs in the SW GA have/had a chance they leave GA for ECNL. Royals didn't shut the door behind them they moved so fast. Beach/Legends preferred to play in ecRl last year in order to get into ECNL this year. Pats didn't bother with GA this year at all. They wanted and got ECNL.

The reality is WHY would you pick del Sol right now if your kid is getting recruited by one of the local ECNL clubs?

That is what they are up against.
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Pats are a really bad example. CA reality is different than AZ reality. Pats fielded OK teams in the DA, the GA, in ECRL, and now in ECNL.

I'm not saying that the GA has overall better teams than ECNL. They don't, ECNL SW is much stronger than GA SW.

Your statement of best kids are going to ECNL clubs in AZ is just not correct. If you are saying that in reference to 13 year olds, then fine, maybe, but not a marker of future talent or successfull teams. You may use it as your own metric, but it's hardly a marker of what happens to them in the future. DS doesn't have in interest in flooding the valley with teams - like RSL and Rising do. It's not their business model. They recruit and do their best to retain a core group of players moving through the ranks.

Royals did what they thought was right for them and maybe what their consituency wanted. Good move on their part. I don't know the behind the scenes with DS and ECNL and why they didn't make the move with Royals. Were previous bridges burned? don't know. Is there a plan to put a 4th team in PHX? likley not but who knows.

Anyway, this is a beat horse for sure. Next year if DS U15s/16s aren't competitive, then you will have nailed this. We should see mass migration to Rising and RSL. I suppose we will see.
 
what-happened said:
Good move on their part. I don't know the behind the scenes with DS and ECNL and why they didn't make the move with Royals.
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I suspect there are some burned bridges and or bad blood between del Sol and ECNL. You can pretty much lay money that if they had an offer to go back to ECNL they would have already.

The ages I will watch again next year will be the newly minted U13s and then look to see if the U14 and U15 do about the same next year vs their records this year as (u13/14s).

That is where you will see how the club is doing.

Right now the older teams are in many cases teams formed before the demise of DA. As in kids were there and didnt move after DA blew up. So I am not watching them per say. They are baked in.

I am far more curious as to how the club performs bringing in fresh kids with just the GA offer.
 
Desert Hound said:
I suspect there are some burned bridges and or bad blood between del Sol and ECNL. You can pretty much lay money that if they had an offer to go back to ECNL they would have already.

The ages I will watch again next year will be the newly minted U13s and then look to see if the U14 and U15 do about the same next year vs their records this year as (u13/14s).

That is where you will see how the club is doing.

Right now the older teams are in many cases teams formed before the demise of DA. As in kids were there and didnt move after DA blew up. So I am not watching them per say. They are baked in.

I am far more curious as to how the club performs bringing in fresh kids with just the GA offer.
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This is and will prove out to be 100% correct.
 
slightly off topic but is there a link to game results for the ECNL showcase in AZ this weekend? i haven't been able to find it.
Thanks
 
Desert Hound said:
I suspect there are some burned bridges and or bad blood between del Sol and ECNL. You can pretty much lay money that if they had an offer to go back to ECNL they would have already.

The ages I will watch again next year will be the newly minted U13s and then look to see if the U14 and U15 do about the same next year vs their records this year as (u13/14s).

That is where you will see how the club is doing.

Right now the older teams are in many cases teams formed before the demise of DA. As in kids were there and didnt move after DA blew up. So I am not watching them per say. They are baked in.

I am far more curious as to how the club performs bringing in fresh kids with just the GA offer.
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I agree there's likley some bad blood or a burnt bridge or two. Maybe they are in the process of mending those..who knows.

I will say that the 06s grew after the DA debacle and the 05s have traded players with Rising and RSL. The 07s haven't been recruited away by the idea of ECNL. The 05s have had a bad injury run. But yes, next year we will see how the current 08s/09s run. DS will not be concernd with the 09s but will certainly focus their attention on 08s. In theory, their olders (04/05, 06, 07) next year will be very strong, stronger than at least two clubs in the state.

In those age groups, the greener pastures of ECNL haven't been enticing enough. Moving back to the GA SW helps - CO and NM travels wasn't smart.
 
what-happened said:
In theory, their olders (04/05, 06, 07) next year will be very strong, stronger than at least two clubs in the state.
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Yeah they might be stronger vs AZ Thunder and or Inferno.

If you are talking about other ECNL clubs I am not sure what you base that on.

Royals ripped through GA at most age groups. This year? Not so much. So you cannot possibly look at GA records and assume a win rate will then apply if playing in SW ECNL.

I don't believe del Sol has played any of the local AZ ECNL teams this year.
 
By the way I just looked that the record of the 05s. They have not won a game in their division. Most of the 04s are moving on. And you are making the claim that next years 04/05 team will be one of the best?

I know you are a homer, but please.

Lets review.

In division games. Half of the clubs teams cannot even manage a win. And that is in a division weaker vs the SW GA division. That isn't the del Sol of old. That tells you that talent has left the club by and large. You sound like a parent whose team does well in the local state leagues and thinks that record would translate vs a lot tougher competition in other leagues. Year by year del Sol looks weaker.

U13
0-7-0

U14
0-5-2

U15
7-0-0

U16
4-2-1

U17
0-4-3

U18/19
3-3-1
 
Desert Hound said:
By the way I just looked that the record of the 05s. They have not won a game in their division. Most of the 04s are moving on. And you are making the claim that next years 04/05 team will be one of the best?

I know you are a homer, but please.

Lets review.

In division games. Half of the clubs teams cannot even manage a win. And that is in a division weaker vs the SW GA division. That isn't the del Sol of old. That tells you that talent has left the club by and large. You sound like a parent whose team does well in the local state leagues and thinks that record would translate vs a lot tougher competition in other leagues. Year by year del Sol looks weaker.
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While I don't know all the ins and outs of AZ soccer, looking at the GA schedule you can see that DS 05's beat 2 SW teams last weekend, City SC and Albion SD, who are 2 and 3 in the SW division. Doesn't appear that the SW division is stronger like you suggest.
 
Calikid said:
Anyone have any insight as to who the various age groups coaches ECNL Pateadores?
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Only Rumors but
08-Hammond
07-Dodge
06-Duerksen
05/04-?
Definitely need to hire more coaches. They should try to get the Swanson Brothers from West Coast. Future isn't bright over there.
 
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