state cup

timbuck said:
I agree 100%. I wish the big pause that we had in soccer could have given us a big reset to fix the mess of too many leagues, too many flights, too much travel and not enough referees.
Instead- We went the opposite direction.
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Absolutely. And the problem, of course, is who "we" are. Any number of people here could have pitched a more coherent, equitable SoCal youth soccer structure to put into place last year (some of us did!) But who, ultimately, would be empowered to implement it? Who would collect the fees? Cal South has seen its influence sapped by its own missteps and by superclubs seeing an opportunity to make money with competing leagues under US Soccer. It was a land rush. So here we are, driving five hours for league games with one ref.

I don't blame anyone specifically. Cal South has some very well-intentioned people, but it's like turning an aircraft carrier -- plus it's squandered too much leverage and good will to force people to the table. And the big clubs are big businesses that have their own momentum.

But yeah, it would have been nice for all of these "youth soccer people" to have put their self-interest and history aside to at least talk about a better way. Take a half step towards some SoCal Das Reboot.
 
KJR said:
Absolutely. And the problem, of course, is who "we" are. Any number of people here could have pitched a more coherent, equitable SoCal youth soccer structure to put into place last year (some of us did!) But who, ultimately, would be empowered to implement it? Who would collect the fees? Cal South has seen its influence sapped by its own missteps and by superclubs seeing an opportunity to make money with competing leagues under US Soccer. It was a land rush. So here we are, driving five hours for league games with one ref.

I don't blame anyone specifically. Cal South has some very well-intentioned people, but it's like turning an aircraft carrier -- plus it's squandered too much leverage and good will to force people to the table. And the big clubs are big businesses that have their own momentum.

But yeah, it would have been nice for all of these "youth soccer people" to have put their self-interest and history aside to at least talk about a better way. Take a half step towards some SoCal Das Reboot.
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Would that be nice.....I think we reached the point of no return, until it will correct itself out eventually.
 
KJR said:
Absolutely. And the problem, of course, is who "we" are. Any number of people here could have pitched a more coherent, equitable SoCal youth soccer structure to put into place last year (some of us did!) But who, ultimately, would be empowered to implement it? Who would collect the fees? Cal South has seen its influence sapped by its own missteps and by superclubs seeing an opportunity to make money with competing leagues under US Soccer. It was a land rush. So here we are, driving five hours for league games with one ref.

I don't blame anyone specifically. Cal South has some very well-intentioned people, but it's like turning an aircraft carrier -- plus it's squandered too much leverage and good will to force people to the table. And the big clubs are big businesses that have their own momentum.

But yeah, it would have been nice for all of these "youth soccer people" to have put their self-interest and history aside to at least talk about a better way. Take a half step towards some SoCal Das Reboot.
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When my kids were playing under the Cal South system, I only wanted to see it work well enough so that they had meaningful and enjoyable opportunities to play. I heard rumblings from Cal South insiders about things that happened behind closed doors, but without more details they were hard to believe. Now I am more skeptical of whatever Cal South does.

As it is, we are left with a ridiculous hodgepodge of organizations that won't co-operate with each other, leaving it up to club and team managers to navigate through the season.
 
State cups have "jumped the shark" a while back and the Socal league cup is more of the same but likely worse since you're paying extra to play the SAME teams again.

Meanwhile UPSL is taking off in Socal with LAFC academy, Pats, Golden State and others fielding U19s vs men since MLS-NEXT and ECXx just doesn't have the completion past U17 or any real paths forward unless you just going for college.

Past U17 the the numbers of truly competitive teams have a really big drop off and it's hard for most clubs to develop past that age, MLS-NEXT recognizes this and pretty much has thrown in the towel on playing those ages vs any regular clubs. The new MLS 2 league, USL, and UPSL will be taking over that space for the boys on the top end and these other letter youth league will be 2nd or no choice for them.
 
This weekend is the first weekend of State Cup for 05 and 04/03 Teams.
As mentioned elsewhere in this thread- SoCal League made State Cup MANDATORY for anyone Flight and above.
The cost was $700 per team to enter. A forfeit costs an extra $250 plus all referee fees
You can find all of the rules here: http://www.socalstatecup.com/_files/SOCAL STATE CUP Handbook V1.pdf
If you forfeit one game, you forfeit all of your State Cup Games. Not sure if that means you need to pay the fine and ref fees for all 5 games (I assume it's just 1 time)
As of today, I see the following forfeits:
G05 Super Cup: 0
G05 Elite: 2
G05 Classic: 0 - But only 9 teams in this group

G04/03 Super Cup: 1
G04/03 Elite: 1
G04/03: 0 - But only 5 teams in this group

Not a TON of forfeits- But for those 4 teams that did- They wasted about $1,000 on a tournament they probably had no intention of playing in. I'm sure there are others that have better use for the time and money of this tournament during the Fall season.

I do think there needs to be a consequence for forfeiting a game- Otherwise you'd see it a lot more. But don't make the tournament "mandatory". (What is this, Russia/China/Afghanistan?)
 
So how's things going so far?

Heard some grumblings about last minute scheduling, teams not showing up, uneven comp, etc but what you're experience been so far?
 
timbuck said:
This weekend is the first weekend of State Cup for 05 and 04/03 Teams.
As mentioned elsewhere in this thread- SoCal League made State Cup MANDATORY for anyone Flight and above.
The cost was $700 per team to enter. A forfeit costs an extra $250 plus all referee fees
You can find all of the rules here: http://www.socalstatecup.com/_files/SOCAL STATE CUP Handbook V1.pdf
If you forfeit one game, you forfeit all of your State Cup Games. Not sure if that means you need to pay the fine and ref fees for all 5 games (I assume it's just 1 time)
As of today, I see the following forfeits:
G05 Super Cup: 0
G05 Elite: 2
G05 Classic: 0 - But only 9 teams in this group

G04/03 Super Cup: 1
G04/03 Elite: 1
G04/03: 0 - But only 5 teams in this group

Not a TON of forfeits- But for those 4 teams that did- They wasted about $1,000 on a tournament they probably had no intention of playing in. I'm sure there are others that have better use for the time and money of this tournament during the Fall season.

I do think there needs to be a consequence for forfeiting a game- Otherwise you'd see it a lot more. But don't make the tournament "mandatory". (What is this, Russia/China/Afghanistan?)
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Seriously the 04/03 teams are seniors, they have a lot on their plates. Dumb to have mandatory for any team but esp this group
 
timbuck said:
I had 3 players today tell me they had to work until after 11:30pm last night. They were exhausted on the field today. What are we trying to do to these kids?
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This "State Cup" schedule being intigrated into a league season is foolish. So is splitting the league season around the high school season. Half of our team had their Homecoming dance Saturday evening during the match; wouldn't let us reschedule to an earlier play time, even thought there was an available field. But there is no problem with canceling league games due to being double scheduled for a State Cup game or even cancel at the field because there are no refs. I really hope Socal makes a course correction next year. I would like to see the league play finish before High School begins. Perhaps twelve leauge games that feed into a playoff bracket between the top teams from different regions in the same Flight, to be completed before High School starts. Maybe have the Semi-finals and Finals for the playoffs after the High School season if there is not enough time to fit it all in during fall. Scrap "State Cup."
 
Code said:
This "State Cup" schedule being intigrated into a league season is foolish. So is splitting the league season around the high school season. Half of our team had their Homecoming dance Saturday evening during the match; wouldn't let us reschedule to an earlier play time, even thought there was an available field. But there is no problem with canceling league games due to being double scheduled for a State Cup game or even cancel at the field because there are no refs. I really hope Socal makes a course correction next year. I would like to see the league play finish before High School begins. Perhaps twelve leauge games that feed into a playoff bracket between the top teams from different regions in the same Flight, to be completed before High School starts. Maybe have the Semi-finals and Finals for the playoffs after the High School season if there is not enough time to fit it all in during fall. Scrap "State Cup."
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I can appreciate what "SoCal League" was trying to do. I think "on paper", all of their ideas sound pretty solid.
But they didn't plan/think of consequences properly. They really should have a "parent", "coach" and "referee" committee that they can run things by.

A little thought would have told them that "Since we are back from COVID, many players and families have put sports on the backburner (with the exception of the truly elite league players)." This should have been a year to ease things back to "normal" - Especially at the high school ages. HS aged players had a HS and a club season running at the same time during spring. Then they went straight into HS Summer League and club tournaments.
Referees are in the same boat. There was never enough to go around. Doubling up the hs and club seasons didn't help. Adding more games for league and state cup has made it worse. Couple that up with the world being more angry than it was 19 months ago- It's a disaster.
Discovery League being all played at the same venues sounds great on paper. Until you have to drive from LA or San Diego each week in worsening traffic and pay $15 to park to watch your kid play. My kid likes soccer. She doesn't like spending 5 hours on Saturday and some Sundays driving to a game, playing a game and driving back from a game. (Neither do I or my wife).
Letting players jump around to rosters and play 2 games in a day was necessary when we came back last Spring (clubs/teams didn't know who was coming back to play and needed to share players between rosters). Now you have teams using this as an advantage by bringing kids down from a level or 2 above.
 
My daughter’s 2005 Discovery team just found out over the weekend (with 8 days notice) that they will be driving from LA to Oceanside on Halloween morning to play one State Cup game. When asked if the game could be rescheduled, the I am told the league’s response was along the lines of “tough, it’s not our problem… deal with it.” My daughter’s reaction was “that really sucks, all the fun Halloween stuff is happening on Saturday night.“ As usual, the players are just an afterthought. It’s no wonder so many kids quit club soccer at these older ages. I don’t blame them at all. State Cup at this age group, especially with games added on the same weekends as an already busy league schedule, is a stupid idea and just another money maker for the league.
 
timbuck said:
I can appreciate what "SoCal League" was trying to do. I think "on paper", all of their ideas sound pretty solid.
But they didn't plan/think of consequences properly. They really should have a "parent", "coach" and "referee" committee that they can run things by.

A little thought would have told them that "Since we are back from COVID, many players and families have put sports on the backburner (with the exception of the truly elite league players)." This should have been a year to ease things back to "normal" - Especially at the high school ages. HS aged players had a HS and a club season running at the same time during spring. Then they went straight into HS Summer League and club tournaments.
Referees are in the same boat. There was never enough to go around. Doubling up the hs and club seasons didn't help. Adding more games for league and state cup has made it worse. Couple that up with the world being more angry than it was 19 months ago- It's a disaster.
Discovery League being all played at the same venues sounds great on paper. Until you have to drive from LA or San Diego each week in worsening traffic and pay $15 to park to watch your kid play. My kid likes soccer. She doesn't like spending 5 hours on Saturday and some Sundays driving to a game, playing a game and driving back from a game. (Neither do I or my wife).
Letting players jump around to rosters and play 2 games in a day was necessary when we came back last Spring (clubs/teams didn't know who was coming back to play and needed to share players between rosters). Now you have teams using this as an advantage by bringing kids down from a level or 2 above.
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There is no question, that games for Olders should be done before Thanksgiving, like it was before. If they want to play State or National Cup after HS - up to them. For Youngers, you can go until March or whatever - doesn't matter. Even for youngers I would not go into Spring and let them play other sports in Spring. We are trying to re-invent the wheel and it doesn't work. I believe it will eventually correct itself, but not without heavy loses.
 
ajaxahi said:
My daughter’s 2005 Discovery team just found out over the weekend (with 8 days notice) that they will be driving from LA to Oceanside on Halloween morning to play one State Cup game. When asked if the game could be rescheduled, the I am told the league’s response was along the lines of “tough, it’s not our problem… deal with it.” My daughter’s reaction was “that really sucks, all the fun Halloween stuff is happening on Saturday night.“ As usual, the players are just an afterthought. It’s no wonder so many kids quit club soccer at these older ages. I don’t blame them at all. State Cup at this age group, especially with games added on the same weekends as an already busy league schedule, is a stupid idea and just another money maker for the league.
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My kids team plays over an hour away (Oceanside) late afternoon on Halloween. Parents are not happy. The league hasnt even respond to our emails about scheduling conflicts of any kind. Our coach has a different state cup game at the same time at a different venue. Overall our team is extremely unhappy with this new league and their mandated state cup.
 
Soccer Cat said:
My kids team plays over an hour away (Oceanside) late afternoon on Halloween. Parents are not happy. The league hasnt even respond to our emails about scheduling conflicts of any kind. Our coach has a different state cup game at the same time at a different venue. Overall our team is extremely unhappy with this new league and their mandated state cup.
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Here’s a copy of the leagues official response:
 
Soccer Cat said:
My kids team plays over an hour away (Oceanside) late afternoon on Halloween. Parents are not happy. The league hasnt even respond to our emails about scheduling conflicts of any kind. Our coach has a different state cup game at the same time at a different venue. Overall our team is extremely unhappy with this new league and their mandated state cup.
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Hopefully SoCal will fix this problem next year and have local games for group stages of State Cup. Traveling for group stages should be done in 1 weekend at the same location on a non holiday weekend. It's kinda tough this year juggling scheduling with ref shortages and local field shortages though.
 
Emma said:
Hopefully SoCal will fix this problem next year and have local games for group stages of State Cup. Traveling for group stages should be done in 1 weekend at the same location on a non holiday weekend. It's kinda tough this year juggling scheduling with ref shortages and local field shortages though.
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That would be nice for families but don't count on that since "league cup" disguised as state cup is a money maker and local fields would likely costs the league more and they can't get any parking revenue.

Those contacts with Silverlakes and other places where they need to fill the fields or be in breach are multi year deals and they don't want to jeopardize those again or give up more revenue.

The league and clubs are working together for their benefits not yours. Local play would end up costing parents less overall but clubs or leagues more so lots of people are traveling hours and paying parking weekly instead.
 
lafalafa said:
That would be nice for families but don't count on that since "league cup" disguised as state cup is a money maker and local fields would likely costs the league more and they can't get any parking revenue.

Those contacts with Silverlakes and other places where they need to fill the fields or be in breach are multi year deals and they don't want to jeopardize those again or give up more revenue.

The league and clubs are working together for their benefits not yours. Local play would end up costing parents less overall but clubs or leagues more so lots of people are traveling hours and paying parking weekly instead.
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They should just let parents know and then find a way to see how they can keep games local and still be able to meet their contractual obligation to Silverlakes. Maybe a payoff to silverlakes might be a good idea. Parents can help pay for this cost. It's probably a lot cheaper than driving all that way. If the league is transparent with their numbers, we'd all rather pitch in to help out than drive 2-3 hours and pay for parking.

It would go something like this - we need X more games at Silverlakes to reach our obligation. If we pay Silverlakes Y amount, we don't have to have the games there. It would cost each family W amount of money. Would your team rather drive up and pay for parking or would you like to save your time and gas money and just pay to help with the contractual obligation?

If people see the number difference, they can decide individually as clubs and teams.
 
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