Days between Games- 2 games a weekend is a BAD idea

[MacDre]

I like it. I take it she's getting her rondos and other speed-of-play work somewhere other than HS, right? Also, "elite" is in the eye of the beholder and qualitative. Just for reference, what is your estimate of the number of elite girls soccer players in the US? (I roughly estimate about 12,000 girls - 750 teams * 16 players/team - of ECNL age playing ECNL).

I think the speed-of-play work in HS and club are both equally bad. HS is cheaper in time and money with the added social benefit. My player will supplement her HS sport with training in Mexico to improve speed of play.

I also agree that what is considered elite is debatable. But, I think it’s safe to say that players that haven’t mastered basic fundamentals are not elite; and most players in letter leagues have not mastered basic fundamentals and are nowhere close to being elite.

I do think several players in the club soccer ecosystem could be elite with the appropriate environment but club soccer ain’t it.

I also think some in the past have become elite despite club soccer and not because of it.

 

[MacDre]

I think you are just stirring the pot but anyway.

You keep using euro boys development examples as a template for US girls. Where you want to go is rarified air, few make it. Mostly they will come out of clubs, a few will come from somewhere else. The OM template (always comes back to her, especially in this place) is actually a pretty good one. High level club play was instrumental in exposure and connections. Dedicated, soccer specific training outside of club is what likely catapaulted her to where she is now. Her ceiling is high and her parents (whether you like it or not) did an excellent job of managing her air space.

I am simply talking about players mastering basic fundamentals and injury prevention. US females are definitely capable of mastering their fundamentals if given the appropriate environment.

You are going off on a tangent my friend.

 

[what-happened]

I am simply talking about players mastering basic fundamentals and injury prevention. US females are definitely capable of mastering their fundamentals if given the appropriate environment.

You are going off on a tangent my friend.

Maybe, it's late..

 

[Kicker4Life]

This is so spot on. Went to a D1 soccer match recently and the quality was terrible. My 12 year old is playing a similar level of soccer.

Would love to see a movement back to multiple sports (all the data tells us this is better for kids and athletic performance), and a return to high school sports participation. We’ve all been fed a bunch of BS from year round travel team marketing and it’s not in the best interest of the kids.

 

[MacDre]

It’s too early in the morning to start throwing shade. Chillax and listen to this Bay Area slapper patna:

 

[SoccerFan4Life]

I am simply talking about players mastering basic fundamentals and injury prevention. US females are definitely capable of mastering their fundamentals if given the appropriate environment.

You are going off on a tangent my friend.

There’s some great high school soccer games that I’ve seen. However, most of them (boys) is typically run and gun style. There’s no way that a high school coach can develop a player when soccer is only a 3 month season sport. Development happens at the coach level at the younger age. Development happens with parents taking kids to do futsal, private lessons, and kids that take time to do some passing drills against a wall at home.
High school soccer is fun to watch but you are not going to see great technical skills from the entire team.

 

[MacDre]

There’s some great high school soccer games that I’ve seen. However, most of them (boys) is typically run and gun style. There’s no way that a high school coach can develop a player when soccer is only a 3 month season sport. Development happens at the coach level at the younger age. Development happens with parents taking kids to do futsal, private lessons, and kids that take time to do some passing drills against a wall at home.
High school soccer is fun to watch but you are not going to see great technical skills from the entire team.

You are not going to see great technical skills in a letter league either. But you will see lots of great dribblers consistently doing dumb shit like taking on 3 defenders and playing slow. I maintain the benefit of club soccer should be to increase speed of play/learn tactics and improve decision making; you know, team stuff!

I agree that technical skills, fitness, and mental can and should be done outside of practice. So, if a player plays a sport during every HS season, does rondos/speed of play work, and takes PE they’ll be a better athlete than a club player; they will not be as injury prone; they will be more well rounded socially and won’t “have all of their eggs in the same basket.”

So, if a player plays sports throughout the year in HS, does rondos and speed work, and plays in a summer league they will receive substantially better development than what’s being provided by letter leagues.

 

[outside!]

I think the speed-of-play work in HS and club are both equally bad. HS is cheaper in time and money with the added social benefit. My player will supplement her HS sport with training in Mexico to improve speed of play.

I also agree that what is considered elite is debatable. But, I think it’s safe to say that players that haven’t mastered basic fundamentals are not elite; and most players in letter leagues have not mastered basic fundamentals and are nowhere close to being elite.

I do think several players in the club soccer ecosystem could be elite with the appropriate environment but club soccer ain’t it.

I also think some in the past have become elite despite club soccer and not because of it.

Playing in Mexico is great for your player, but is not a good fit for most. Other than a few select schools, HS soccer does not have the quality of top level club teams in Southern California. Club soccer in SoCal has plenty of problems, but it is still the best option available to those who can afford it. My hope is that in the future, rec soccer significantly improves once all of the parent coaches have significant soccer experience. This will diminish the need for many players to play club, and only the top level will play club.

 

[MacDre]

Playing in Mexico is great for your player, but is not a good fit for most. Other than a few select schools, HS soccer does not have the quality of top level club teams in Southern California. Club soccer in SoCal has plenty of problems, but it is still the best option available to those who can afford it. My hope is that in the future, rec soccer significantly improves once all of the parent coaches have significant soccer experience. This will diminish the need for many players to play club, and only the top level will play club.

I think you are using the wrong metric to determine quality. It appears that folks in the US think that being able to dribble equals quality and skill; I respectfully disagree. Any player in an elite league should have mastered basic fundamentals so team tactics can be worked on during practice but unfortunately this is not the case. Paying good money to be on a team of dribblers with a low soccer IQ is detrimental to the development of our players.

It’s funny because in soccer here in the US we constantly talk about what’s being done in Europe. I call BS, because I think the Europeans copied their advanced tactics from basketball. I grew up as a street baller with handles but I struggled transitioning to a team environment. My youth coach would say “Dre, stop dribbling so much and you can’t run faster than a ball”. My coach also had a rule that we had to pass a minimum of 5 times before we could shoot. I actually watched the movie Hoosiers with my player to reinforce this concept when she was much younger:

Hoosiers (film) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

So I don’t know if the clubs are scamming or if it’s just ignorant parents focused on wins and losses. But the basic fundamentals and tactics I am talking about are ALL AMERICAN!!!

 

[watfly]

I think choice is good but that ain’t what I’m talking about. My position is that if your player is in a letter league, you are most likely being hustled and not getting the benefit of your bargain. My kid wants to play club soccer but she said developing in club soccer is like “chasing unicorns.” I’ve also seen some kids juggle skillfully, or make a sick move on the wrong part of the field. But, I respectfully submit that the skill you are seeing displayed in club soccer is not the skill needed to be elite. The emphasis is wrong and the skills of which you speak are a distinction without a difference. Speed of play and decision making make a player elite and these skills are lacking in all of club soccer including the so called elite letter leagues.

Caveat Emptor!!’

IMHO, "scanning" is the key to great speed of play. How many very skilled youth soccer players do you see receive the ball then look up to see where their teammates and defenders are? They have no clue before they receive the ball where anyone is. Speed of play is dependent on having a good idea of where you're going with the ball before you receive it. How many coaches even teach "scanning" or even understand it? I venture not very many. Scanning is an integral part of soccer IQ, and I'd say starting around U13 is when soccer IQ really becomes a difference maker. Unfortunately in the US its also the same time that size becomes a big difference maker in winning, at least for a couple years until it doesn't make much of a difference.

What is 'Scanning'? The Overlooked Skill That Builds the Foundation of Brilliant Soccer Players

Arsène Wenger, legendary former manager of Arsenal, calls this regular checking of one’s surroundings “scanning.”

www.stack.com

 

[lafalafa]

This is so spot on. Went to a D1 soccer match recently and the quality was terrible. My 12 year old is playing a similar level of soccer.

Would love to see a movement back to multiple sports (all the data tells us this is better for kids and athletic performance), and a return to high school sports participation. We’ve all been fed a bunch of BS from year round travel team marketing and it’s not in the best interest of the kids.

All of ours did multiples up until college and it helps but very difficult nowadays when the demands of some sports, high acdemics, any social life. Going to have to sacrifice somethings and have understanding coaching. The master of none thing is what some people bring up but that's not necessarily the case,.can be all league or excel at other sports like track and field, volleyball, etc.

If the D1 game you witness didn't have good quality you have club soccer to thank for that somewhat. 90% of D1 domestic soccer players are products of their club environments.

If you can play with good skills and quality in club should be able to do more of that in D1 college. The resumes of D1 players are often much greater vs nearly all club teams which typically have much fewer D1 "level set" players per team.

The college playing styles can be more like high school vs club soccer yes that can be the case and not that many play pure procession or make things "beautiful" but some college coaching and teams can/do that but typically the game can be more physical, running and gunning or a bunch of battles in the mid field or on set pieces.

 

[Simisoccerfan]

This is so spot on. Went to a D1 soccer match recently and the quality was terrible. My 12 year old is playing a similar level of soccer.

Would love to see a movement back to multiple sports (all the data tells us this is better for kids and athletic performance), and a return to high school sports participation. We’ve all been fed a bunch of BS from year round travel team marketing and it’s not in the best interest of the kids.

You are deluded if you think your 12 year old is playing a similar level of soccer as D1.

 

[Simisoccerfan]

Letter leagues and flight 1 soccer are primarily a sham. The vast majority of players lack basic fundamentals and are not elite.

The problems with the lack of rest and recovery stems from coaches having to earn their pay. There isn’t much development going on in these games as many players lack basic fundamentals. I understand folks have to make a living so, it is what it is.

I’m convinced all high school sports are the way to go. I don’t see how high school soccer games are lower quality or more dangerous than letter leagues as they both have many players that lack basic fundamentals. I think folks are falling for marketing and are not actually paying attention to what’s going in these letter league games; IDK, maybe it the cool backpacks the players get because it sure isn’t the level of play.

I’m confident my player participating in high school XC, soccer, and swim team will develop her better than any coach in any letter league with a substantially lower risk of injury.

Coaches have to get paid and therein lies the real problem.

My player was at the skatepark chilling and chopping it up with her patnas this weekend. She’s fully rested and recovered for XC practice today.

HS soccer can be even worse than club. You either practice or play 6 days a week. The season is short and you play a ton of games. I am a firm believer that once a girl hits 15 or so that should have at least two full days between games and should have off at least two days a week from any practice or game to recover. Ideally they would play not more than 1 game per week. I have seen so many players either burn out or get injured by playing too much.

 

[MacDre]

HS soccer can be even worse than club. You either practice or play 6 days a week. The season is short and you play a ton of games. I am a firm believer that once a girl hits 15 or so that should have at least two full days between games and should have off at least two days a week from any practice or game to recover. Ideally they would play not more than 1 game per week. I have seen so many players either burn out or get injured by playing too much.

I think an HS “All American” is better athletically developed than a club player for college and professional sports. For example, my player is running XC which will help her pass the beep test and play a full 90, meet new friends outside of soccer while making running enjoyable.

The soccer season is short so I don’t see much of an opportunity for burnout or overuse injuries for a player not involved with club.

Swim team will help build cardiovascular fitness and recovery which is important for elite soccer players. Most professional soccer teams have a pool and it seems beneficial for a player to learn how to swim competitively while young because of all the benefits. Also, another opportunity for players to meet and bond with folks outside of soccer.

HS soccer is not worse than club if the appropriate metric is used. The appropriate metric is speed of play and decision making; please elaborate as to why you think the speed of play and decision making in club soccer is superior to HS?

 

[MacDre]

You are deluded if you think your 12 year old is playing a similar level of soccer as D1.

Come on, Dude is obviously talking about decision making. Therefore, y’all are deluded if you think the decision making displayed in college soccer is better than what 12 year olds can do.

 

[lafalafa]

I think an HS “All American” is better athletically developed than a club player for college and professional sports. For example, my player is running XC which will help her pass the beep test and play a full 90, meet new friends outside of soccer while making running enjoyable.

The soccer season is short so I don’t see much of an opportunity for burnout or overuse injuries for a player not involved with club.

Swim team will help build cardiovascular fitness and recovery which is important for elite soccer players. Most professional soccer teams have a pool and it seems beneficial for a player to learn how to swim competitively while young because of all the benefits. Also, another opportunity for players to meet and bond with folks outside of soccer.

HS soccer is not worse than club if the appropriate metric is used. The appropriate metric is speed of play and decision making; please elaborate as to why you think the speed of play and decision making in club soccer is superior to HS?

Being on the "all American" watch lists is a decent way to get recruited. Some people say coaches and scouts don't attend HS games, not really any less for the better programs vs a normal club league game out in some remote complex.

But they do when there interested especially during the post season, sure there more local but when you have academy, mls directors, college ones, and the semi pro looking for there next players they will show up and did consistently at our kids games in HS.

High school in our section played two game a week like Wednesday and Friday and practiced 2x but the practices where generally not as demanding as club ones for example. The season is condensed but not sure it's any more vs many leagues that play back to back games which is even worse in the fall. The overuse comes into play when your trying to do HS and club at the same time.

College plays two days a week just like high school such as friday and Sunday but they practice more like 4x and the weight room or conditioning. The season is super condensed up into the post season but at least there are brakes in between but the travel can be demanding with the academic course work that still has be done on the road. Not sure how many professors will move tests or due dates around to accommodate athletes. Sure the athletic Dept provides a form letter you can give out but that necessarily does'nt mean you get any automatic special accommodations.

Far as I know club soccer is the only one that does the back to be back games outside of tournaments.

 

[lafalafa]

Come on, Dude is obviously talking about decision making. Therefore, y’all are deluded if you think the decision making displayed in college soccer is better than what 12 year olds can do.

Our 12yr old son had decient decision making for a player in the ussda league and has called into the training center couple times at u13 and beyond. He lacked the experience and would makes mistakes like all the rest of those players regularly did. Flashes of brilliance but consistently for the whole game was lacking at times.

As a college player his awareness and decision making is almost spot on for entire 90 minutes, very few to practically no mistakes at all. Some of his u12 coaches are still around and they have come to some of the his games and been happy to see his progress. Same with some of the team mates, he would laugh at you at the thought of comparing him now to his U12 self just saying.

 

[Simisoccerfan]

Come on, Dude is obviously talking about decision making. Therefore, y’all are deluded if you think the decision making displayed in college soccer is better than what 12 year olds can do.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[MacDre]

Our 12yr old son had decient decision making for a player in the ussda league and has called into the training center couple times at u13 and beyond. He lacked the experience and would makes mistakes like all the rest of those players regularly did. Flashes of brilliance but consistently for the whole game was lacking at times.

As a college player his awareness and decision making is almost spot on for entire 90 minutes, very few to practically no mistakes at all. Some of his u12 coaches are still around and they have come to some of the his games and been happy to see his progress. Same with some of the team mates, he would laugh at you at the thought of comparing him now to his U12 self just saying.

I think your son is the exception to the rule.

I think college soccer is mostly turbo transitional soccer because many players lack basic fundamentals and decision making. I can’t stomach watching a male or female college game longer than 10 minutes because it’s so choppy. The speed of play and decision making is horrific in college. But club players will finally get to develop more athletically like they would have in HS if they were All Americans which is the benefit of college soccer to me-athletic development.

 

[MacDre]

You have no clue what you are talking about.

Please give your detailed expert opinion as to why I’m wrong. I don’t mind being proved wrong. I’m waiting.

 

[outside!]

HS soccer is not worse than club if the appropriate metric is used. The appropriate metric is speed of play and decision making; please elaborate as to why you think the speed of play and decision making in club soccer is superior to HS?

DD said of HS soccer, "a waist high ball 5 yards away from you counts as a pass". The players know what is better soccer and they know much more than you or I.