Vaccine

Bruddah IZ said:
It’s become almost comical in how irrational it [the series of Covid restrictions] is. The idea that I need to wear a mask when I walk into a restaurant, wear a mask, as I sit down at my seat, I am told by the restaurant, that I should only remove it when I’m eating and drinking, but then I’m removing it and sitting in a packed restaurant and lots of other people eating and drinking… At some point down the line, I feel like we’ve lost sight of the science here, and it’s become a lot more about signalling what political tribe you’re a part of.
Click to expand...
Actually, in your case, it isn't the mask.

The restaurant should refuse to seat you indoors because you are not vaccinated. Unvaccinated people in high risk settings is a bad idea.

Enjoy your tiramisu outside.
 
dad4 said:
Actually, in your case, it isn't the mask.

The restaurant should refuse to seat you indoors because you are not vaccinated. Unvaccinated people in high risk settings is a bad idea.

Enjoy your tiramisu outside.
Click to expand...

Didn't Bruddah have it? If so, you are being very anti-science. If not, apologies.
 
NorCalDad said:
If he did, when did he have it?
Click to expand...

Well, if we are going to play that game its the same as the vaccines unless you are mandating boosters for everyone. There's still scant evidence but there is some to suggest that the vaccination antibodies decline faster than natural immunity antibodies. The more relevant question is probably how badly did you get it.
 
Bruddah IZ said:
This statement of the problem reveals a gap between the way many economists think of the problem, and how politicians think of it. It is generally assumed, in blackboard economics, that a strong Pareto improvement—everyone is better off, and no one is worse off—is always unobjectionable. More importantly, it is simply assumed that even a weak Pareto improvement—at least one person is better off, and no one is worse off—is always easily implemented as public policy in a democracy. It’s actually the definition of “efficiency,” and efficiency is the goal of public policy.

But that’s clearly not true. A weak Pareto improvement, say giving any available person a vaccine dose if that dose would otherwise be thrown away, is precisely what many people object to. The idea that a benefit is undeserved implies that it should not be awarded, even if the alternative is literally dumping the benefit down the sink. The idea that public policy should be concerned first and foremost with preventing those undeserved harms, and confiscating unearned benefits from others, is the central premise of the new rendering of social justice and political responsibility. Nutzenschmerz is the denial of weak Pareto improvements to all members of the society, based on the insistence on a fanatically strict notion of desert. Any undeserved benefit is unjust; any cost incurred in correcting injustice is justified by the emotional group-think of Nutzenschmerz.
Click to expand...

Apologies but I'm stretching to connect the Pareto principle to a parody of a PK shootout. Nonetheless, I agree Herr Sterling's face could clearly launch a thousand ships so to speak. I think its possible I missed a Barrington Declaration regarding concussion protocols. Maybe that's it. The tyranny of tiny bumps? That would explain it. That said I do think of Nutzenschmerz often, and fondly. The best Nutzenschmerz I ever had was in Heidelberg, a long time ago. As I recall it was in a little place off the Sofienstrasse in Altstadt. But like I said its been a long time and who knows if its still there.
 
Grace T. said:
Well, if we are going to play that game its the same as the vaccines unless you are mandating boosters for everyone. There's still scant evidence but there is some to suggest that the vaccination antibodies decline faster than natural immunity antibodies. The more relevant question is probably how badly did you get it.
Click to expand...

Let's play ball!

For sure, but people who get "the jab" are more likely ok with getting boosters (I most definitely am). We know those that have been infected lose immunity over time. What's the recourse for those folks? Will they get a booster? Or suck down some freshly bottled covid saliva?
 
NorCalDad said:
Let's play ball!

For sure, but people who get "the jab" are more likely ok with getting boosters (I most definitely am). We know those that have been infected lose immunity over time. What's the recourse for those folks? Will they get a booster? Or suck down some freshly bottled covid saliva?
Click to expand...
Well, if you are arguing that among the vaccinated only people who have had boosters should be allowed in indoor dining if they are more than x months out, at least your argument is consistent.

The rebuttal to that is at a certain point, though, we need to stop being concerned about cases. Everyone is going to be exposed to the virus. If you've been exposed once (whether naturally or through vaccine) you are less likely to develop a severe reaction the second time because the virus is no longer novel to your system. There is evidence that people who have had it and have had at least one dose of the vaccine afterwards are supercharged, so it's probably a good idea. But we need to move on from the idea that cases are a bad thing. The reason why it's a bad idea for someone who hasn't had it and hasn't had the vaccine to go into indoor dining is that they are more likely to die....but they are more likely to die for any reason (going to work for example) so it's sort of beside the point to the dining question.

The other thing to realize is that unless you are immunocompromised, elderly or are a caretaker of the foregoing, your booster is taking a shot out of the arm out of someone in the third world who could have used the first dose and that could have been used to prevent more mutations from arising in the third world. So bit of selfishness going on there to keep you "safe"
 
Three Warriors with some thoughts from NoCal. NoCal is so wrong about this. EOTL and his side kick Golden Gate represent NoCal to a T.

The San Francisco Department of Public Health said last week that there would be no exemption for anyone 12 and older at large indoor gatherings.

NBA: ((China controls this league)) "Under the current order, if unvaccinated, they cannot enter indoor areas regardless of the reason they are unvaccinated and cannot test out of this requirement even if they have a medical or religious exemption," it said in a statement. Wiggins applied for a religious exemption to avoid taking the shot, but that request was denied by the NBA on Friday.

Andrew: "It's not uncomfortable," Wiggins said of all the attention his decision has created. "I'm confident in my beliefs and what I think is right, what I think is wrong. I'm just going to keep doing what I believe. Whether it's one thing or another, just going to keep doing it."

Curry: "At the end of the day, it is up to him," Curry said. "I think it's no secret to that point. We obviously hope that he has all the right information and access to the right resources to ask all the questions he has on making a decision. We hope he's available. We hope it moves in the right direction. My opinion is obviously I got it and ready to be available, and following, you know, the mandates and whatnot.

Andre: "I've been upset reading about Andrew Wiggins because it's painting the wrong picture," Iguodala said. "You know, we're in a day and age now where perception can become reality, and the perception that's going on about him is hurting his value and ultimately can affect the wealth that he accumulates, which is totally unfair. When you do your homework the way it should be done, you understand there's people who [...] have an excuse and there's people who have actual values, and he's a guy that has values, and he's the type of guy who will stand and he's the type of guy I'll risk being around the situation.

"Now, I'm vaccinated and I have an understanding about this, and he has a different understanding, but his understanding is something that I truly respect and I have a value for how he sees life. He's the type of guy that I support the whole way, and hopefully we can find a solution and I think we will."

No jab, not allowed in our town. No jabber doo, no buy or sell which equals=no way to make a living unless you take vax. This is so wrong you guys in NoCal. Shame on you, shame shame shame!!!
 
dad4 said:
Actually, in your case, it isn't the mask.

The restaurant should refuse to seat you indoors because you are not vaccinated. Unvaccinated people in high risk settings is a bad idea.

Enjoy your tiramisu outside.
Click to expand...
The restaurant should worry first about staying in business. The tyranny of tiny risk has repetitively been shown for what it really is.

18,553,588
Currently Infected Patients

18,461,309 (99.5%)
in Mild Condition

92,279 (0.5%)
Serious or Critical

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
 
Grace T. said:
Well, if you are arguing that among the vaccinated only people who have had boosters should be allowed in indoor dining if they are more than x months out, at least your argument is consistent.

The rebuttal to that is at a certain point, though, we need to stop being concerned about cases. Everyone is going to be exposed to the virus. If you've been exposed once (whether naturally or through vaccine) you are less likely to develop a severe reaction the second time because the virus is no longer novel to your system. There is evidence that people who have had it and have had at least one dose of the vaccine afterwards are supercharged, so it's probably a good idea. But we need to move on from the idea that cases are a bad thing. The reason why it's a bad idea for someone who hasn't had it and hasn't had the vaccine to go into indoor dining is that they are more likely to die....but they are more likely to die for any reason (going to work for example) so it's sort of beside the point to the dining question.

The other thing to realize is that unless you are immunocompromised, elderly or are a caretaker of the foregoing, your booster is taking a shot out of the arm out of someone in the third world who could have used the first dose and that could have been used to prevent more mutations from arising in the third world. So bit of selfishness going on there to keep you "safe"
Click to expand...

Right, my view is consistent here in that it should be applied to both vaccinated and those who've been infected. Moderna appears to be effective up to 93% after 120 days since one's last shot. Pfizer is around 77%. Bummer thing is 54% of those vaccinated in the US took Pfizer. Nonetheless, boosters seem inevitable. I'm less concerned about vaccinated folks getting the booster shot, as they won't really need much convincing. It's the folks who have been infected and are reluctant to even go down that path. I do agree with you that mandates and lockdowns generally don't work in the US given how political everything is. Heck even Trump tried to convince people to get the vaccination. Next thing you know, Alex Jones is calling him an idiot. The crazy out there is very real.

Cases don't matter in places where vaccination rates are high. Perhaps we could include places where natural immunity has been built up as well. But if you look at FL and TX compared to CA these days it's night and day. I think it's undeniable that if FL and TX achieved a higher vaccination rate their death toll wouldn't be where it is today. Hopefully delta is peaking and we don't see another big wave in the near future, but at this point I'm pretty skeptical.
 
NorCalDad said:
Right, my view is consistent here in that it should be applied to both vaccinated and those who've been infected. Moderna appears to be effective up to 93% after 120 days since one's last shot. Pfizer is around 77%. Bummer thing is 54% of those vaccinated in the US took Pfizer. Nonetheless, boosters seem inevitable. I'm less concerned about vaccinated folks getting the booster shot, as they won't really need much convincing. It's the folks who have been infected and are reluctant to even go down that path. I do agree with you that mandates and lockdowns generally don't work in the US given how political everything is. Heck even Trump tried to convince people to get the vaccination. Next thing you know, Alex Jones is calling him an idiot. The crazy out there is very real.

Cases don't matter in places where vaccination rates are high. Perhaps we could include places where natural immunity has been built up as well. But if you look at FL and TX compared to CA these days it's night and day. I think it's undeniable that if FL and TX achieved a higher vaccination rate their death toll wouldn't be where it is today. Hopefully delta is peaking and we don't see another big wave in the near future, but at this point I'm pretty skeptical.
Click to expand...
There's some evidence natural immunity might be effective for at least a year, which if you are concerned about fading immunity, you really should be more concerned about the vaxxed than the naturally immune. There is a portion of people who are vaxxed (including I venture some posters here on team reality in the forums) who got their first dose who won't necessarily get the second (at least until there's some scientific proof they actually do anything...widespread boosters having been rejected by the CDC and FDA scientific panel for that reason). Not to mention, if you are healthy, it's selfish because you are taking a jab out of the arms of some third world grandma that needs it more than you do (unless you are elderly, immunocompromised or care for someone that is)
 
Because of all the asymptomatic employer and school testing, rapid tests in California are in short supply and places that need them (nursing homes, schools trying to avoid quarantining kids and missing school) are having a harder time getting them.

calmatters.org

Rapid COVID-19 tests in short supply in California

Californians seeking same-day COVID-19 tests are finding empty shelves and long delays, which could fuel outbreaks.
calmatters.org calmatters.org
 
espola said:
Nonsense.
Click to expand...
I think Grace T makes a strong case. I told everyone I would be last to take it. I want to make sure all the elderly and the poor around the world has jab. Come find me when the last jabs have been handed out to everyone else. It's the least I can do. I saw some really rich dads run and push everyone out of the way so they could get jabbed first. I saw it with my own eyes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top