ECNL Broken?

Messi>CR7 said:
I also think basketball players are the best athletes. However, IMO most NBA players would be too tall to excel in soccer since the ball is played close to the ground. Take away centerbacks and goalkeepers, I would guess the best soccer players in the world average 5'10", +- 2 inches.

The problem in the US, as you correctly pointed out, is that kids watch TV and most play basketball and football. But a majority of them can't make it to college or pro because they don't have the required size. Perhaps we can implement a draconian policy such that if your dad is <5'9" and your mom is <5'3", you can only participate in soccer but not basketball or football. If we could do that, US will be a powerhouse in soccer.
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I'm down
 
LASTMAN14 said:
Very good response. And any answer is subjective. No doubt that’s true. The examples in the list of athletes was strong. And the mention of basketball in its own and as Dubs suggesting of hockey makes a strong case as well. I agree that these two sports may have the best well rounded athletes especially at the pro/int level. Do you think that most of those athletes based on purely their athletic aptitude (not training in a sport) and physical build (height, natural weight, etc) could actually play soccer at the highest level?
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That is a great question. Can a tall athlete be successful in high level soccer. Fascinating actually (don't ruin my weekend, I need to get ready for dinner!!)

Average Heights:
NBA Guards: 6'2-6'4"
MLB: 6'2
NFL CB : 5'11 (I picked corners since they have to be hyper athletic to defend speed and size)
NHL: 6"1
EPL: 5'11
La Liga: 5'10
Bundesliga: 6'0"
MLS: 5'9"

I could go on and on but you get my drift. I would say at the skill positions, the heights are pretty close. I really can't think of anyone having to be more athletic than an NFL corner back. Imagine having to defend Marquise Goodwin, who runs a 4.2 40. He's running at you and you are backpedaling, having to decide which way he's going to turn, then having to accelerate to close the gap or keep up.

An interesting note, the MLS homegrown players tend to be smaller overall. Again though, you don't have to be big to play soccer, and too big is a detriment.

Anyway, good discussion.
 
Pure athletes in terms of fitness, strength and singular hard core focus... Water Polo players and swimmers. Course, a lack of land coordination, and hand eye coordination probably eliminate them from “entertainment “ athletes.
 
happy9 said:
That is a great question. Can a tall athlete be successful in high level soccer. Fascinating actually (don't ruin my weekend, I need to get ready for dinner!!)

Average Heights:
NBA Guards: 6'2-6'4"
MLB: 6'2
NFL CB : 5'11 (I picked corners since they have to be hyper athletic to defend speed and size)
NHL: 6"1
EPL: 5'11
La Liga: 5'10
Bundesliga: 6'0"
MLS: 5'9"

I could go on and on but you get my drift. I would say at the skill positions, the heights are pretty close. I really can't think of anyone having to be more athletic than an NFL corner back. Imagine having to defend Marquise Goodwin, who runs a 4.2 40. He's running at you and you are backpedaling, having to decide which way he's going to turn, then having to accelerate to close the gap or keep up.

An interesting note, the MLS homegrown players tend to be smaller overall. Again though, you don't have to be big to play soccer, and too big is a detriment.

Anyway, good discussion.
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Agree on NFL cornerbacks
 
happy9 said:
That is a great question. Can a tall athlete be successful in high level soccer. Fascinating actually (don't ruin my weekend, I need to get ready for dinner!!)

Average Heights:
NBA Guards: 6'2-6'4"
MLB: 6'2
NFL CB : 5'11 (I picked corners since they have to be hyper athletic to defend speed and size)
NHL: 6"1
EPL: 5'11
La Liga: 5'10
Bundesliga: 6'0"
MLS: 5'9"

I could go on and on but you get my drift. I would say at the skill positions, the heights are pretty close. I really can't think of anyone having to be more athletic than an NFL corner back. Imagine having to defend Marquise Goodwin, who runs a 4.2 40. He's running at you and you are backpedaling, having to decide which way he's going to turn, then having to accelerate to close the gap or keep up.

An interesting note, the MLS homegrown players tend to be smaller overall. Again though, you don't have to be big to play soccer, and too big is a detriment.

Anyway, good discussion.
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Can I respond tomorrow. Friends over and I had wine.
 
happy9 said:
Our women's side is starting to migrate to Europe. The lure of the champions league is too much - Alex Morgan (Lyon), Tobin Heath (Man United), Rose Lavelle (Man City), Sam Mewis (Man city). This is just the beginning. Maybe they are moving out of the way of upcoming talent. This doesn't bode well for the NWSL. Their brand is tied to the WMNT. At some point, and if the dollars are there, our best women players will go direct to Europe, just like our men do and then what?
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This always happens after a WC/Olympic cycle (Carli Lloyd to City, Rapinoe to Lyon, etc...). USA Soccer pays the NWSL salaries for the USWNT and they have to be released to go abroad.

Who knows what happens in the next CBA, but NWSL attendance dwarfs WSL and they finally have a decent TV deal so I wouldn’t start throwing dirt on them yet...
 
SoccerLocker said:
This always happens after a WC/Olympic cycle (Carli Lloyd to City, Rapinoe to Lyon, etc...). USA Soccer pays the NWSL salaries for the USWNT and they have to be released to go abroad.

Who knows what happens in the next CBA, but NWSL attendance dwarfs WSL and they finally have a decent TV deal so I wouldn’t start throwing dirt on them yet...
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Giesbock said:
Pure athletes in terms of fitness, strength and singular hard core focus... Water Polo players and swimmers. Course, a lack of land coordination, and hand eye coordination probably eliminate them from “entertainment “ athletes.
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I have not decided on my answer yet, however I will never forget when I found out Water Polo players were treading water the whole time... I was floored!! I was young and thought they were standing and playing ha-ha. (face palm)
@Kicker4Life @Giesbock
 
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SoccerLocker said:
This always happens after a WC/Olympic cycle (Carli Lloyd to City, Rapinoe to Lyon, etc...). USA Soccer pays the NWSL salaries for the USWNT and they have to be released to go abroad.

Who knows what happens in the next CBA, but NWSL attendance dwarfs WSL and they finally have a decent TV deal so I wouldn’t start throwing dirt on them yet...
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Agree that it always happens. I think the circumstances are different this time. There appears to be more money and more desire behind the efforts to make the women's leagues in Europe more important. The cash from European leagues dwarfs what the MLS dreams of achieving. It may peter out, it may not account for anything. To me, this time it's different. We will see. I want homegrown players to stay home.
 
Footy30 said:
I have not decided on my answer yet, however I will never forget when I found out Water Polo players were treading water the whole time... I was floored!! I was young and thought they were standing and playing ha-ha. (face palm)
@Kicker4Life @Giesbock
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I always think of an athlete in terms of what they could achieve, beyond their current sport. Water polo players are ridiculous in their own right and are amazing athletes - big and strong. I don't think your average world class water polo player can train or be trained to cover Tyreek Hill. Speed isn't something you can coach/train. Take a look at Stephon Gilmore. Played football, baseball, and ran track. He was a quarterback in HS and set records rushing and throwing. He's now the #1 CB in the NFL. He has the physical ability to become a water polo player. He may not become the best water polo player, but I bet if he puts his mind to it, he can become a middle of the pack world class water polo player. He's 6'1", 190lbs.

With all of that said, Bo Jackson is likely the greatest athlete to ever set foot on a playing surface.
 
futboldad1 said:
Lebron would be good at soccer only as a gk..... best athletes argument is a very flawed one......
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Fault can always be found in subjectivity, that's kind of the basis of a subjective argument. It's why the best athlete conversation is a fun one to have. There is so much criteria to consider.

Most athletic league - NBA
Best Athletes - NFL corner backs
Best athlete ever - Bo Jackson
Toughest Athletes - Tie: Pro Tour Riders and world class Iron Man athletes.
 
Definitely sad to see so many of our top players going to Europe but can we blame them??? Better pay, better level of play, chance to live abroad.. All pluses but, yeah super bummed to see most going across the pond...

Is anyone at the US sports / advertising complex Workingon a response strategy to turn the trend around? Maybe Dallas Cowboys Atlanta Falcons, NE Patriots and the likes pump some serious cash behind the women’s game of soccer!?
 
happy9 said:
Hockey players are cool and have a unique skill. I won't argue that at all. I bet you Larry Bird played hockey and decided to play basketball..:)
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That's not how it goes. If you play hockey first and then aren't good enough for highest level, then you move to basketball... at least in Minnesota.
 
LASTMAN14 said:
Very good response. And any answer is subjective. No doubt that’s true. The examples in the list of athletes was strong. And the mention of basketball in its own and as Dubs suggesting of hockey makes a strong case as well. I agree that these two sports may have the best well rounded athletes especially at the pro/int level. Do you think that most of those athletes based on purely their athletic aptitude (not training in a sport) and physical build (height, natural weight, etc) could actually play soccer at the highest level?
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Really hard to say.. some of the faster skaters with slighter build might be suited for soccer... not sure. Good question.
 
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