Lets Drive to Utah on a Holiday Weekend to play teams from California

Soccerhelper said:
How far is Scottsdale from the Cactus Cup?
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Normally very close, but it depends on what fields are open - Reach 11 and Scottsdale Sports Center are not currently allowing games. Phx metro is big, you could be 40-50 mins from hotel to game, if the aforementioned are not open.
 
whatithink said:
Tournament at Fear Farm last weekend, masks on, distancing and plenty of spectators.
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Games all over the valley - masks, distancing etc. I think there are different levels of enforcement depending on where you play. Wear a mask, separate, sit down and watch your kid play! Then quickly move on so the follow on parents can sit.

Where I was, everyone was respectful of each other.
 
Grace T. said:
I can see this. At least as far as goalkeepers are concerned from the little we saw flight 1 keepers in Utah have very little on even some of top flight 3 keepers in SoCal, especially on the girls end. My son got moved up to the olders group in the camps he attended. We met a handful of Californians out there not to mention that two classmates from his school are out there, 2 from his current school and 2 work colleagues.
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Did y’all move to Utah for the year?
 
Curious for the AZ people: what’s the limit for heat temps to call off games? I know there are games there this weekend but temps upwards of 100 all weekend with an extreme heat advisory. Is that a game time decision usually or will they cancel for the weekend before games start? Or does no one care? Tia.
 
timbuck said:

Event Information

events.gotsport.com events.gotsport.com

I looked at the HS age and 2006 brackets.

I guess people really want to play. 6.5 hour drive to play teams within 40 miles.

Good luck.
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I knew a Blues team would be going. There is no rational reason to: drive out of state 5+ hours; play in 97F (Utah) or 113F (AZ) heat, and in Utah's case 5000ft altitude; and, lay around in an air-conditioned cheap hotel while your kids scroll on their phones. This isn't "we want to go on a road trip and this is what we want to do." It's either an inability to control personal FOMO or pressure from a coach/club to go, otherwise risk losing future playing time.

You can't tell me your kids wouldn't rather road trip on this boiling hot, holiday weekend to Lake Havasu, Big Bear, or even the state campground at San Onofre.
 
What will be the penalty for violating the health rules?
I can see some crazy parent jumping up out of their Tommy Bahama chair screaming because an opposing player was giving a high five to a teammate.

Also - if a kid wakes up with a fever on Saturday morning - Will parents really keep them home? Or will they rub a little ice on the forehead before check in?


The rules also state that 20/21 player cards will be used. Has Cal South issued these?

utahsurfsoccer.com

UTAH LABOR DAY CUP - Utah Surf Soccer Club

August 30 - September 2, 2024 (Sunday will be a rest/adventure day) REGISTRATION NOW OPEN! Presented by Utah FC, and set in the beautiful Southern Utah town of Cedar City, Utah, we are proud to host and invite you to Utah Labor Day Cup! Just a couple of hours north
utahsurfsoccer.com utahsurfsoccer.com
 

I usually do not post here, but I couldn't resist putting in my thoughts after reading the health guidelines and waiver forms. I am an attorney so I tend to be more focused on these things, but the first form is requiring both the coach and the team manager to "indemnify" the organizers in the event of a lawsuit or a claim that arises from anything that is "related" to the team. The second form is requesting the same "indemnify and hold harmless" agreement from all the parents of the players. Putting aside the questions of "causation" and what is "related" to the team, if someone gets sick and that illness can be directly or indirectly traced to XYZ team, then the organizer can demand that the coach, team manager and all parents from XYZ team get involved in the lawsuit. People tend to think about these indemnifications as being payouts for damages, but this usually means that an attorney needs to be retained to defend the lawsuit, and that the coach, team manager and all parents from XYZ team are responsible for paying the initial legal fees in defending the matter. I'm quite sure that most parents (and probably most coaches) signing these forms do not realize this fact.

Therefore, if some kid gets Covid a couple of days after playing in the tournament and suffers some debilitating effects, the family could sue the organizers. The organizers can try to defend themselves by saying that they followed all health protocols, and then contact the three/four teams that this kid played and demand defense and indemnification. The coach, team manager and all parents from the three/four teams cannot get out of the obligation to defend and indemnify by raising the same arguments because the waiver forms say that the defense and indemnification is absolute even if protocols have been followed, and even if the organizer is negligent. Separately, whether the waivers in these forms are even legally enforceable is another issue, and can be complicated because it may depend on the law of the state at issue. The forms are silent about which state's law applies, so one assumes Utah. But if Johnny is signing this form in California, will he bound under Utah law simply because he is going to Utah for this event? What if the sick player is from Nevada?

The bottom line is that once a legal claim is made, either before a lawsuit is filed or after a lawsuit is filed, some attorney needs to be paid to deal with it. Who is paying? I don't think that most people appreciate this point.
 
RayClemence said:

I usually do not post here, but I couldn't resist putting in my thoughts after reading the health guidelines and waiver forms. I am an attorney so I tend to be more focused on these things, but the first form is requiring both the coach and the team manager to "indemnify" the organizers in the event of a lawsuit or a claim that arises from anything that is "related" to the team. The second form is requesting the same "indemnify and hold harmless" agreement from all the parents of the players. Putting aside the questions of "causation" and what is "related" to the team, if someone gets sick and that illness can be directly or indirectly traced to XYZ team, then the organizer can demand that the coach, team manager and all parents from XYZ team get involved in the lawsuit. People tend to think about these indemnifications as being payouts for damages, but this usually means that an attorney needs to be retained to defend the lawsuit, and that the coach, team manager and all parents from XYZ team are responsible for paying the initial legal fees in defending the matter. I'm quite sure that most parents (and probably most coaches) signing these forms do not realize this fact.

Therefore, if some kid gets Covid a couple of days after playing in the tournament and suffers some debilitating effects, the family could sue the organizers. The organizers can try to defend themselves by saying that they followed all health protocols, and then contact the three/four teams that this kid played and demand defense and indemnification. The coach, team manager and all parents from the three/four teams cannot get out of the obligation to defend and indemnify by raising the same arguments because the waiver forms say that the defense and indemnification is absolute even if protocols have been followed, and even if the organizer is negligent. Separately, whether the waivers in these forms are even legally enforceable is another issue, and can be complicated because it may depend on the law of the state at issue. The forms are silent about which state's law applies, so one assumes Utah. But if Johnny is signing this form in California, will he bound under Utah law simply because he is going to Utah for this event? What if the sick player is from Nevada?

The bottom line is that once a legal claim is made, either before a lawsuit is filed or after a lawsuit is filed, some attorney needs to be paid to deal with it. Who is paying? I don't think that most people appreciate this point.
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Is this form any different if your kid knocks coconuts with another player on the field and gets a severe concussion, or tears and ACL after being slide tackled? Is the COVID based clause that much different than the same waiver used for other risks associated with playing?
 
RayClemence said:

I usually do not post here, but I couldn't resist putting in my thoughts after reading the health guidelines and waiver forms. I am an attorney so I tend to be more focused on these things, but the first form is requiring both the coach and the team manager to "indemnify" the organizers in the event of a lawsuit or a claim that arises from anything that is "related" to the team. The second form is requesting the same "indemnify and hold harmless" agreement from all the parents of the players. Putting aside the questions of "causation" and what is "related" to the team, if someone gets sick and that illness can be directly or indirectly traced to XYZ team, then the organizer can demand that the coach, team manager and all parents from XYZ team get involved in the lawsuit. People tend to think about these indemnifications as being payouts for damages, but this usually means that an attorney needs to be retained to defend the lawsuit, and that the coach, team manager and all parents from XYZ team are responsible for paying the initial legal fees in defending the matter. I'm quite sure that most parents (and probably most coaches) signing these forms do not realize this fact.

Therefore, if some kid gets Covid a couple of days after playing in the tournament and suffers some debilitating effects, the family could sue the organizers. The organizers can try to defend themselves by saying that they followed all health protocols, and then contact the three/four teams that this kid played and demand defense and indemnification. The coach, team manager and all parents from the three/four teams cannot get out of the obligation to defend and indemnify by raising the same arguments because the waiver forms say that the defense and indemnification is absolute even if protocols have been followed, and even if the organizer is negligent. Separately, whether the waivers in these forms are even legally enforceable is another issue, and can be complicated because it may depend on the law of the state at issue. The forms are silent about which state's law applies, so one assumes Utah. But if Johnny is signing this form in California, will he bound under Utah law simply because he is going to Utah for this event? What if the sick player is from Nevada?

The bottom line is that once a legal claim is made, either before a lawsuit is filed or after a lawsuit is filed, some attorney needs to be paid to deal with it. Who is paying? I don't think that most people appreciate this point.
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All for a youth soccer game, smh.
 
futboldad1 said:
Good luck to all teams traveling and hope they have a ton of fun....... California is not doing this right...... our DDs (or mine at least) are crying about not playing......
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Both my DD’s are trying to come to grips with it. They’ve gone thru the crying phase and have moved into the motivation phase (see how long they can stay in this phase).

Both have started getting up before school and running hills in the neighborhood or at the beach on top of all the other training they do 6 days a week.

Stay positive and let’s keep our fingers crossed for October.
 
RayClemence said:

I usually do not post here, but I couldn't resist putting in my thoughts after reading the health guidelines and waiver forms. I am an attorney so I tend to be more focused on these things, but the first form is requiring both the coach and the team manager to "indemnify" the organizers in the event of a lawsuit or a claim that arises from anything that is "related" to the team. The second form is requesting the same "indemnify and hold harmless" agreement from all the parents of the players. Putting aside the questions of "causation" and what is "related" to the team, if someone gets sick and that illness can be directly or indirectly traced to XYZ team, then the organizer can demand that the coach, team manager and all parents from XYZ team get involved in the lawsuit. People tend to think about these indemnifications as being payouts for damages, but this usually means that an attorney needs to be retained to defend the lawsuit, and that the coach, team manager and all parents from XYZ team are responsible for paying the initial legal fees in defending the matter. I'm quite sure that most parents (and probably most coaches) signing these forms do not realize this fact.

Therefore, if some kid gets Covid a couple of days after playing in the tournament and suffers some debilitating effects, the family could sue the organizers. The organizers can try to defend themselves by saying that they followed all health protocols, and then contact the three/four teams that this kid played and demand defense and indemnification. The coach, team manager and all parents from the three/four teams cannot get out of the obligation to defend and indemnify by raising the same arguments because the waiver forms say that the defense and indemnification is absolute even if protocols have been followed, and even if the organizer is negligent. Separately, whether the waivers in these forms are even legally enforceable is another issue, and can be complicated because it may depend on the law of the state at issue. The forms are silent about which state's law applies, so one assumes Utah. But if Johnny is signing this form in California, will he bound under Utah law simply because he is going to Utah for this event? What if the sick player is from Nevada?

The bottom line is that once a legal claim is made, either before a lawsuit is filed or after a lawsuit is filed, some attorney needs to be paid to deal with it. Who is paying? I don't think that most people appreciate this point.
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Thanks for that info. It seems to me that Utah Surf is being over the top by requiring an indemnification. Could they have just required a waiver? I'd sign a waiver in a heart beat, but indemnification, no. It ridiculous that you can sue over getting a virus anyway. We need to have some legislation to prevent that (unless it involves some form of willful misconduct), and get back to individual accountability and away from always being a victim.
 
watfly said:
It ridiculous that you can sue over getting a virus anyway. We need to have some legislation to prevent that (unless it involves some form of willful misconduct), and get back to individual accountability and away from always being a victim.
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The "willful misconduct" is having a large group gathering in the middle of a pandemic. That's beside the point, though-- either you are free to initiate legal action, or you aren't. Victimhood has nothing to do with it.
 
notintheface said:
The "willful misconduct" is having a large group gathering in the middle of a pandemic. That's beside the point, though-- either you are free to initiate legal action, or you aren't. Victimhood has nothing to do with it.
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No one is forcing anyone to participate, it's called freedom of choice and choices have consequences. If you choose to participate and get sick, don't try to sue someone else for your choices. If you do you're playing the victim card. It's not that complicated. (Yes, I understand you think you know what is best for everyone, but most people would like to make their own choices). As of right now its perfectly legal to host a soccer tournament in Utah. Your claim that its willful misconduct is just more fear mongering.
 
watfly said:
No one is forcing anyone to participate, it's called freedom of choice and choices have consequences. If you choose to participate and get sick, don't try to sue someone else for your choices. If you do you're playing the victim card. It's not that complicated. (Yes, I understand you think you know what is best for everyone, but most people would like to make their own choices). As of right now its perfectly legal to host a soccer tournament in Utah. Your claim that its willful misconduct is just more fear mongering.
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What about grandma? She was minding her own business until little Sally brought C19 home from Utah and killed her. In hindsight, she probably should have stayed in the rest home, although Sally also gave it to her teammate, who gave it to her mom who works at the same rest home. Probably would have died regardless of where she was staying since, well, Americans are dumb and selfish.
 
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