2003/2004 Boys. Standings, games of the week etc...

Kante said:
here's predicts va actuals for this last weekend (2/29). home team is listed first. had some decent games this weekend.

predict: Real Salt Lake 2 - LAFC 1 actuals: Real Salt Lake 2 - LAFC 3
note: per game report and anecdotal reports, this sounds like a solid match for LAFC with an early goal to make it 1-0 at ht, and then another goal about midway thru the 2nd half to go ahead 2-0.

CN for RSL made it 1-2 at the 80th minute but CT for LAFC brought the margin back up with goal at the 89th minute to make it 1-3. CN, however, got a double at the very end but itwasn't enough, and the final result was 3-2 LAFC.

Sounds like a good match and fun to watch overall, particularly the last 20 minutes.

one item though.
_________

Saw Saldana talking about the LAFC u17 win on twitter. cool, cool cool. but here's the exact quote:

"I am very proud of this group; players & staff. I’ve given them the task of being the youngest team (by a large margin) in every game & always up for the challenge..never used as an excuse. Keep Thriving!"​

For the record, LAFC has stacked their teams across all their age groups with January dob's. It's fact. At u12, u13,u14 and u15, LAFC is always the oldest team, usually by a large margin, to borrow a phrase, in age groups where age - even a few months difference - matters to a disproportionate degree. The loading up of January dob's is so consistent that one might even use the word "cynical" to describe the practice.

And the ripple impact has been that other SoCal teams, to be able to compete w/ LAFC at those age groups, have to do the same, which has effectively shrunk the opportunity for SoCal players who are either late developers or have late DOBs across the board

Now, have been open - when asked - that our player is a late DOB. He's managed to find success, and likely will be a much better player for it when everything evens out developmentally wise. So, if you want, discount my two cents, fine.

However, the overall focus on early DOBs across the US soccer environment is artificially shrinking the player pool by at least 50%.

And given that the single biggest advantage the US has, in competing against other countries, is its large population, and given that we are underperforming vs other countries, systematically giving half of our best advantage away thru cynical/lazy development practices is not smart.

Countries like France and England, driven by their pro clubs, are consciously creating specific development paths for late developers/late DOBs. And you can look at the dobs for their national teams over time to see that this is the case. And these guys seems like they're good at this soccer thing.

We were making some progress in the US for a couple of years, but, then, with no explanation, most of it stopped in the 2017-18 season.

Now, US Soccer did just sponsor a late developer tournament this last January but they used to also have a late developer team camp - the Futures Camp - https://www.socceramerica.com/publi...e-relative-age-effect-a-response-from-us.html -which hasn't been heard from for several years.

The irony here is that attendees from the last two Futures camps in 2013 and 2015 - where was the futures camp was their first call-up into the YNT system - have significantly outperformed players who were called up into the regular age group YNT camp those same years.

Futures Camp attendees include names like Mendez, Aronson, Berhalter (yes, GB's son), Gloster and Amaya that should ring some bells.

So, back to Saldana's comment.

To be clear, like a lot of what LAFC academy does, but loading up on early DOB players but then complaining about being at an age disadvantage - for the first time in three years - now that one of the LAFC teams is playing u16/u17 is more than a little hypocritical.

(And btw, the age-based developmental differences - although still significant - begin to even out by age 16-17 a players catch up in height and then later weight).

For the record, close to half of LAFC's current u15 roster was born in January, raising a legit question of "are they better or are they just older?"

Yes, some are better, but some may just be older. But hey, no excuses.

ok, sigh. rant done. sorry about that.. (channelling Twellman...)

predict: Strikers 1 - LA Galaxy 1 actuals: Strikers 2 - LA Galaxy 1

predict: Pateadores 3 - FC Golden State 3 actuals: Pateadores 1 - FC Golden State 2
Click to expand...

Agree 100%, my son is 2004 second half of the year and could run circles around most Academy 2004s but....we're ok with it, however, he's time is coming!!!
 
BJ18, thanks for prompting me to check the data. (genuinely meant)

All, so I double-checked the data.

For the LAFC, of the 19 05s players rostered by LAFC, seven (so 37%) have January DOBs, and four have Feb DOBs, so all said, 11 have January or Feb DOBs with almost 60% of the team being born in the first two months of 2005.

An average distribution would have 17% of LAFC's roster born in either Jan or Feb.

For DA context, RSL has 34% of their 05 roster born in either Jan or Feb, Barca has 0% of their 05 roster born in Jan/Feb, and SD Surf has 30% of their 05 roster born in Jan/Feb. Am sure someone will ask/wonder about LAG and will check those numbers and get back.

To be clear, it's up to LAFC staff and families to do whatever they think is right re: recruiting and development, and they've done a lot right.

But for the LAFC Technical Director to be talking about how his u17 team is the "youngest team (by a large margin) in every game", well, have the world's smallest violin for that comment.
 
Kante said:
BJ18, thanks for prompting me to check the data. (genuinely meant)

All, so I double-checked the data.

For the LAFC, of the 19 05s players rostered by LAFC, seven (so 37%) have January DOBs, and four have Feb DOBs, so all said, 11 have January or Feb DOBs with almost 60% of the team being born in the first two months of 2005.

An average distribution would have 17% of LAFC's roster born in either Jan or Feb.

For DA context, RSL has 34% of their 05 roster born in either Jan or Feb, Barca has 0% of their 05 roster born in Jan/Feb, and SD Surf has 30% of their 05 roster born in Jan/Feb. Am sure someone will ask/wonder about LAG and will check those numbers and get back.

To be clear, it's up to LAFC staff and families to do whatever they think is right re: recruiting and development, and they've done a lot right.

But for the LAFC Technical Director to be talking about how his u17 team is the "youngest team (by a large margin) in every game", well, have the world's smallest violin for that comment.
Click to expand...

But where do you obtain their DOB's from because it is not listed anywhere?
 
Agree 100%, my son is 2004 second half of the year, and noticed that their kids are mostly older when he went to tryout with them. LAFC totally puts emphasis on January birthdays! I do disagree, however, their training is fantastic!

On another note, my son could run circles around most Academy 2004s and 2003s (including LAFC team, he has this year) but LAFC refuses to pull the trigger on bringing him on. We have had multiple talks with coaches and scouts. They say hes good and at the same lever as their current players, so they will stay loyal to their current squad and not bring him on. Doesn't it make sense to give him a year to see how he develops with their LAFC training regiment. I mean, if their current kids have been trained and invested on for the last 3, 4, 5 years and are still only at the same level as my son, who's been working with his non MLS Academy and mostly on his own, imagine what kind of player he would be with great training....why not give him a chance? I dont get that one...He gets up at 5 am everyday on his own to do speed & agility, strengthening, and soccer (looks up youtube videos) but he will only get so far working on his own, he needs formal training which we cant afford. Only hope for him is if Galaxy or LAFC pick him up. I fear, however, that it will never happen for him. I totally ok with it, not sure how he will take it though. IT IS SO HARD IN SO CALI FOR KIDS LIKE HIM born in the second half of the year!
 
Sorry man but they are just telling you what you want to hear. If they rated him, they’d bring him in in a heartbeat. There is no loyalty. We seen kids snapped up by LAFC midweek and their coaches petitioning the old club to release the kid so they could roster him ASAP. And they bring outside kids in all the time for GA Cup and other events.

I agree so cal is so hard but for a motivated kid like yours he will be fine. There are lots of paths and maybe being on the outside looking in will give him the chip he needs to surpass those kids in the long run.
 
soccerstud said:
Agree 100%, my son is 2004 second half of the year, and noticed that their kids are mostly older when he went to tryout with them. LAFC totally puts emphasis on January birthdays! I do disagree, however, their training is fantastic!

On another note, my son could run circles around most Academy 2004s and 2003s (including LAFC team, he has this year) but LAFC refuses to pull the trigger on bringing him on. We have had multiple talks with coaches and scouts. They say hes good and at the same lever as their current players, so they will stay loyal to their current squad and not bring him on. Doesn't it make sense to give him a year to see how he develops with their LAFC training regiment. I mean, if their current kids have been trained and invested on for the last 3, 4, 5 years and are still only at the same level as my son, who's been working with his non MLS Academy and mostly on his own, imagine what kind of player he would be with great training....why not give him a chance? I dont get that one...He gets up at 5 am everyday on his own to do speed & agility, strengthening, and soccer (looks up youtube videos) but he will only get so far working on his own, he needs formal training which we cant afford. Only hope for him is if Galaxy or LAFC pick him up. I fear, however, that it will never happen for him. I totally ok with it, not sure how he will take it though. IT IS SO HARD IN SO CALI FOR KIDS LIKE HIM born in the second half of the year!
Click to expand...

If he's that good, why only LAFC and Galaxy? Why not try Real Salt Lake? He'd have to be 100% all in to leave Cali, but it is an option and they do develop there. Definitely not easy but cant give up hope......
 
Kante said:
BJ18, thanks for prompting me to check the data. (genuinely meant)

All, so I double-checked the data.

For the LAFC, of the 19 05s players rostered by LAFC, seven (so 37%) have January DOBs, and four have Feb DOBs, so all said, 11 have January or Feb DOBs with almost 60% of the team being born in the first two months of 2005.

An average distribution would have 17% of LAFC's roster born in either Jan or Feb.

For DA context, RSL has 34% of their 05 roster born in either Jan or Feb, Barca has 0% of their 05 roster born in Jan/Feb, and SD Surf has 30% of their 05 roster born in Jan/Feb. Am sure someone will ask/wonder about LAG and will check those numbers and get back.

To be clear, it's up to LAFC staff and families to do whatever they think is right re: recruiting and development, and they've done a lot right.

But for the LAFC Technical Director to be talking about how his u17 team is the "youngest team (by a large margin) in every game", well, have the world's smallest violin for that comment.
Click to expand...
Just checked the LAG 05 DOBs. 22% of the LAG 05 DA team is born Jan/Feb.
 
TS is a great director and really cares for the kids. He might get a little overzealous with the comments sometimes but he means well.

By the time players reach u16/17 in DA does age, dob, really matter that much? LAFC might suffer from not having enough teams to play more players up. Not having all age groups kind of restrains them somewhat and they will remedy that this coming season.
 
BJ18 said:
How are you able to obtain DOB's? I guess I am the only one concerned that some random person can obtain my minor son's information.........
Click to expand...

Used to be open and listed until I think last year sometimes, no longer public view.

You have to have a certain level of privilege to see certain things now... managers, coaches, admins, directors, etc.
 
jpeter said:
Used to be open and listed until I think last year sometimes, no longer public view.

You have to have a certain level of privilege to see certain things now... managers, coaches, admins, directors, etc.
Click to expand...

That is what I assumed. So I presume, Kante must be in that category of a manager, coach or admin. Thanks!
 
Kante said:
here's predicts va actuals for this last weekend (2/29). home team is listed first. had some decent games this weekend.

predict: Real Salt Lake 2 - LAFC 1 actuals: Real Salt Lake 2 - LAFC 3
note: per game report and anecdotal reports, this sounds like a solid match for LAFC with an early goal to make it 1-0 at ht, and then another goal about midway thru the 2nd half to go ahead 2-0.

CN for RSL made it 1-2 at the 80th minute but CT for LAFC brought the margin back up with goal at the 89th minute to make it 1-3. CN, however, got a double at the very end but itwasn't enough, and the final result was 3-2 LAFC.

Sounds like a good match and fun to watch overall, particularly the last 20 minutes.

one item though.
_________

Saw Saldana talking about the LAFC u17 win on twitter. cool, cool cool. but here's the exact quote:

"I am very proud of this group; players & staff. I’ve given them the task of being the youngest team (by a large margin) in every game & always up for the challenge..never used as an excuse. Keep Thriving!"​

For the record, LAFC has stacked their teams across all their age groups with January dob's. It's fact. At u12, u13,u14 and u15, LAFC is always the oldest team, usually by a large margin, to borrow a phrase, in age groups where age - even a few months difference - matters to a disproportionate degree. The loading up of January dob's is so consistent that one might even use the word "cynical" to describe the practice.

And the ripple impact has been that other SoCal teams, to be able to compete w/ LAFC at those age groups, have to do the same, which has effectively shrunk the opportunity for SoCal players who are either late developers or have late DOBs across the board

Now, have been open - when asked - that our player is a late DOB. He's managed to find success, and likely will be a much better player for it when everything evens out developmentally wise. So, if you want, discount my two cents, fine.

However, the overall focus on early DOBs across the US soccer environment is artificially shrinking the player pool by at least 50%.

And given that the single biggest advantage the US has, in competing against other countries, is its large population, and given that we are underperforming vs other countries, systematically giving half of our best advantage away thru cynical/lazy development practices is not smart.

Countries like France and England, driven by their pro clubs, are consciously creating specific development paths for late developers/late DOBs. And you can look at the dobs for their national teams over time to see that this is the case. And these guys seems like they're good at this soccer thing.

We were making some progress in the US for a couple of years, but, then, with no explanation, most of it stopped in the 2017-18 season.

Now, US Soccer did just sponsor a late developer tournament this last January but they used to also have a late developer team camp - the Futures Camp - https://www.socceramerica.com/publi...e-relative-age-effect-a-response-from-us.html -which hasn't been heard from for several years.

The irony here is that attendees from the last two Futures camps in 2013 and 2015 - where was the futures camp was their first call-up into the YNT system - have significantly outperformed players who were called up into the regular age group YNT camp those same years.

Futures Camp attendees include names like Mendez, Aronson, Berhalter (yes, GB's son), Gloster and Amaya that should ring some bells.

So, back to Saldana's comment.

To be clear, like a lot of what LAFC academy does, but loading up on early DOB players but then complaining about being at an age disadvantage - for the first time in three years - now that one of the LAFC teams is playing u16/u17 is more than a little hypocritical.

(And btw, the age-based developmental differences - although still significant - begin to even out by age 16-17 a players catch up in height and then later weight).

For the record, close to half of LAFC's current u15 roster was born in January, raising a legit question of "are they better or are they just older?"

Yes, some are better, but some may just be older. But hey, no excuses.

ok, sigh. rant done. sorry about that.. (channelling Twellman...)

predict: Strikers 1 - LA Galaxy 1 actuals: Strikers 2 - LA Galaxy 1

predict: Pateadores 3 - FC Golden State 3 actuals: Pateadores 1 - FC Golden State 2
Click to expand...
Not just age, but emphasis on physical development. Look at the 05 camp right now. Grooming players up top whose physiques are nothing like those of top European players...players who can't last 90 minutes on a pitch and will not successfully compete vs internationals. "Cynical/lazy development practices" is right.
 
full90 said:
Sorry man but they are just telling you what you want to hear. If they rated him, they’d bring him in in a heartbeat. There is no loyalty. We seen kids snapped up by LAFC midweek and their coaches petitioning the old club to release the kid so they could roster him ASAP. And they bring outside kids in all the time for GA Cup and other events.

I agree so cal is so hard but for a motivated kid like yours he will be fine. There are lots of paths and maybe being on the outside looking in will give him the chip he needs to surpass those kids in the long run.
Click to expand...

Im sure you're right, it definitely crossed my mind, but then, he's invited again this year already...wtf? It really doesnt matter to me, its my son that has to have the mental toughness to take that rejection and use to make him better. The way he puts it "Dad, that's just their opinion and I have to work harder to change it" The situation has also lead to a few conversations and opportunities to teach life lessons. In that sense, it's been a positive thing for us. This summer he also has the opportunity for Galaxy and Real Salt Lake, we touched basis with coach not too long ago. We will see how this develops. In the end, he has a 4.4 GPA that he's kept since his freshmen year (last year). He's a nice, humble, hard-working, and intelligent kid. Seems he has things figured out more than me. It will also help that (as of yesterday) he's 6'-0", 145 lbs.!!! I'm gonna use my tax return to take him to TOCA Chino Hills, that's the only thing he wanted for Christmas...freaking kid man

Thank you full90 for your words. Blessings!
 
Kickers99 said:
If he's that good, why only LAFC and Galaxy? Why not try Real Salt Lake? He'd have to be 100% all in to leave Cali, but it is an option and they do develop there. Definitely not easy but cant give up hope......
Click to expand...

Yes, Real Salt Lake is real option, we were in contact with coach some weeks ago...looks like this summer might be his big break. We will see how things develop!
 
soccerstud said:
Yes, Real Salt Lake is real option, we were in contact with coach some weeks ago...looks like this summer might be his big break. We will see how things develop!
Click to expand...
TFA is going to be adding u17 DA for 2020-21. Have heard they're fully funded (but not sure about travel etc.) and they seem to be consistently decently coached across age groups.

Not sure what their situation is w/ 04s/03s but, other than their current 05 DA, it doesn't look like they have set team waiting to start u17 DA, so likely would be a more even field for try-outs. Takes a community...
 
Kante said:
TFA is going to be adding u17 DA for 2020-21. Have heard they're fully funded (but not sure about travel etc.) and they seem to be consistently decently coached across age groups.

Not sure what their situation is w/ 04s/03s but, other than their current 05 DA, it doesn't look like they have set team waiting to start u17 DA, so likely would be a more even field for try-outs. Takes a community...
Click to expand...

Thank you Kante we really appreciate the heads-up, I'll look into it, you never know where that opportunity is lurking...
 
soccerstud said:
I mean, if their current kids have been trained and invested on for the last 3, 4, 5 years and are still only at the same level as my son, who's been working with his non MLS Academy and mostly on his own, imagine what kind of player he would be with great training....
Click to expand...
I'm no expert, but the more time I spend in this world, the less I believe in the magical effects of training on an individual. The primary factor in soccer success is going to be genetics. I suspect that if your son were at LAFC all this time, he'd be exactly as good as he is now.
 
focomoso said:
I'm no expert, but the more time I spend in this world, the less I believe in the magical effects of training on an individual. The primary factor in soccer success is going to be genetics. I suspect that if your son were at LAFC all this time, he'd be exactly as good as he is now.
Click to expand...

That's a thought, and I agree to some extent, however, I do believe that genetics without hard work and training will not get you very far. So many wasted talents because of poor discipline and not enough hard work but plenty of natural talent (genetics). If i have to pick between a player that works hard or is just born with talent, I will always pick hard work. Not everyone can be Messi, but many can be those hard working guys that every team needs but do not get much credit. Players like Gennaro Gattuso in Milan, wow what a beast worked hard and has the heart of a lion, but not very talented.

CR7 good talent but great baller because of his hard work.
Maradona, great talent, didnt come from soccer genes, his son didnt do much
Ronaldo "el fenomeno", don't know of any in his family made it pro and he was a beast

Just look at player stories, which happens to be a hobbie of mine.

In any event, my son has cousins in Mexico that made it to second division, and one cousin somewhat recently (2005-2016) that played first division with Chivas de Guadalajara, Edgar "El Tepa" Solis. There's been so many in both my wife's family and mine that didn't make it professional mainly because of lack of hard work. and not necessarily because they didn't want to do it, but more because of poverty levels that had to work 80 hrs a week min wage to help family out, and some due to horrible injuries in their late teenage years playing in mexican leagues hoping to be "discovered" cause they couldn't afford club, there were no academy back then.

In the end, whats going to happen is going to happen, but I applaud my son not leaving anything to chance, work hard and hope for the best!

cheerio
 
here's predicts for this weekend (3/7). home team is listed first.

San Diego Surf 1 - LAFC 3
Real Salt Lake 2 - Strikers 1 - match to watch (RSL is .05 points behind RSC, which is newly atop the table)
Nomads 1 - Real SoCal 2 - match to watch
note: RSC is sitting in the #1 spot in the West Conference just .05 points ahead of RSL. Have been watching RSC u17 for a bit and they seem to be the real deal. Looking at the numbers, following a 0-5 loss to Barca at the end of October, RSC looks like they started to run things around and it's been up and to the right since.

Here's the RSC overall goal differential % over time chart
1583459322106.png

Defensively, RSC has seen significant improvement since that Barca match, and the improvement seems to be accelerating with RSC putting up four shutouts in their last six matches. here's the defensive chart:

1583459977409.png

Offensively, the improvement looks like it's been going on since the beginning of the year.
1583459637694.png

Net net, good on RSC for competing and prevailing against SoCal competition. To be fair, scheduling looks like it has helped RSC a bit, but The Algo normalizes for that. RSC, keep it up. Nice to see a non-MLS club atop the table.


Pateadores 2 - Albion 1
Arsenal 1 - Barca 4
 
Coming back to to the RSL - LAFC match for a minute.

Recap:
LAFC had a good 3-2 win over a tough RSL team the weekend of 3/1.

Saldana, the LAFC TD, tweeted out congrats (fair)but then went on to write "I’ve given them (ed note: LAFC u17) the task of being the youngest team (by a large margin) in every game & always up for the challenge..never used as an excuse."

The Issue:
LAFC seems to have recruited a disproportionate number of Jan/Feb DOB players for while now across all their teams. For example, almost 60%of LAFC's u15 team was born in Jan/Feb (fyi, most of this data is from old rosters when USSDA used to list DOBs on the team roster which they stopped doing in Nov-ish 2018-19). The next oldest u15 SoCal team is RSL with 34% of the team roster being born in Jan/Feb. LAG is 22%.

One of the impacts of LAFC doing this is that, in SoCal, in order to compete w/ LAFC, other clubs, anecdotally, seem to be more actively recruiting older/early developer DOB players to a greater degree than before LAFC emerged as a force in 2017-18. (This is possible to check but haven't checked yet.)

So, for late in the year SoCal DOB/late developers, who already had it pretty tough breaking into DA teams, LAFC made it tougher.

Ok, life is not fair. Fine.

But to then have LAFC's TD - who is very aware of the relative DOBs for his teams vs other teams and the benefit of having older players in the u12 thru u17 DA age groups - go into passive/aggressive "Don't Cry for Me Argentina"-esque mode to say, rephrased, "no excuses but ... our team is the youngest 'by a large margin' in every game.." Yeah, no.

The RSL - LAFC Match
Doing a weighted average of player DOB x % minutes of played, LAFC's average player age on the field for the match against RSL was March 24, 2004. Running the same numbers for RSl, their weighted average age on the field for the match was August 14, 2003. So LAFC was about, on average, about eight months younger than RSL. So, good for the LAFC players for the win.

What's the Impact of Younger vs Older Players in u17?
When LAG played the Pats two weeks in a row, in the first match, LAG played a youngers line-up (LAG has 33 players on their team roster and it's split almost 505/50 03s and 04s) with average age of Feb 3, 2004. The Pats, who's team roster is mostly 03s, had an average age of Sept 7, 2003 (which is relatively young for DA). Netted out, LAG was five months younger than the Pats and the score was 4-0 Pats.

The next weekend LAG and Pats played again. This time the LAG average age was October 29, 2003 (still pretty young for u17), and the Pats average age was Sept 16, 2003. So pretty even age wise. Result was a 1-1 tie.

Obviously, only one example, but a pretty striking example.
_______

So, give credit to the LAFC players for their result, but Mr. Saldana, please simmer down w/ this "youngest team by a wide margin" stuff. Have heard this repeatedly from the LAFC DA talking about their u17 team this year. It actually is an excuse, and not a good look.

Hopefully, LAFC will start looking longer term than just building their academy brand by getting wins this year in DA to actual player production, which would mean bringing in and developing players who are going to the best players at age 17, 18 and 19, and these players are not necessarily the player who matches at u13, u14 and u15.

Older should not confused with better. And way too often, right now, in the US, particularly, it is.

But maybe things will start changing. Here's a quote on this subject from a Soccer America interview w/ the new u15 US Soccer Head Coach:

"They might be the same age, but physically one can seem two years older than another. Some are over-developed physically and some under-developed. A player might not be physically ready right now, but one in two or three years when the physical aspect evens, he might be one of the top players. At FC United, a lot of our teams at the younger ages are under-sized. Because we're judging them as soccer players, knowing that at some point they're going to grow. My staff and I and our scouts recognize that there's so much physical change to come..."​

www.socceramerica.com

New U.S. U-15 boss Gonzalo Segares on his path from Costa Rica to the USA, and shifting from pro player to youth coach

U.S. U-15 boys national team head coach Gonzalo Segares played more than 200 MLS games for the Chicago Fire.
www.socceramerica.com www.socceramerica.com

Many of these high potential players will be Jan/Feb DOBs, but odds are that there's a lot other players out there - up to 25% of the potential player pool - not getting a shot.

And it's not just the right thing to do, it's also good business. Running the numbers, mining Q4 DOBs for players is a huge arbitrage oppty right now that's being missed across the US. But, like all arbitrage opportunities, it won't last forever, because someone at some point will figure it out. (The guys in Carson seem to be on this track though ...)

In a short time, LAFC has built up a significant influence on the SoCal - and the national - youth soccer environment.

If LAFC leads, others will follow. Mr. Saldana, your thoughts?
 
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