2020-2021 Boys Age Groups

jpeter said:
Ok do you have any real world example of DA teams stacked with u19 players for boys? 2001's are few and far in-between for socal DA u18/19 teams. Maybe your talking about a different state or something else or some other league like ECNL.

Starting later than what? You have to be either behind a year or born in the last 2-3 months of the year & already be 18 at the beginning of your senior year to be a 2001 in your last year of HS around here. Most of your peers have moved on and are already in college like my 18 yr old freshman 2001 daughter.

Combo calendar year special interest groups u18/19 for small % for players who are essentially playing down is not needed or popular in the SW DA so why not make a clean break and go straight calendar year.
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I think you will have more of these kids from now on since California changed the kindergarten start age from turning 5 by Dec. 2 to turning 5 by Sept. 1 about 5 years ago. The fall bday kids, Sept-Dec (1/3 of the calendar year, that's not an insignificant number of kids) who in the past would have been turning 17 in the fall of their senior year of HS are now turning 18 the fall of their senior year of HS. That's entering school on the regular schedule, not being held back or behind. My 2009 kid has a team about 2/3 5th grade and 1/3 4th grade. So in 7 years, that team will be 2/3 seniors and 1/3 juniors. That 1/3 of the team needs a place to play their last year before college, when they are seniors, and the kids born Jan-Aug have graduated HS. So an 18/19 age group seems appropriate for that last year.

At the older ages (current HS players) the kinder age start in California was younger, under the old law, and so it is not as pronounced a difference. There are only a small number of kids (December birthdays, essentially) who would need that 18/19 age group.
 
jpeter said:
Ok do you have any real world example of DA teams stacked with u19 players for boys? 2001's are few and far in-between for socal DA u18/19 teams. Maybe your talking about a different state or something else or some other league like ECNL.

Starting later than what? You have to be either behind a year or born in the last 2-3 months of the year & already be 18 at the beginning of your senior year to be a 2001 in your last year of HS around here. Most of your peers have moved on and are already in college like my 18 yr old freshman 2001 daughter.

Combo calendar year special interest groups u18/19 for small % for players who are essentially playing down is not needed or popular in the SW DA so why not make a clean break and go straight calendar year.
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as you know, I look to you for (always very good) guidance on a number of questions, but have to disagree on a point here.

25% of the potential player population - i.e. oct thru dec dobs - is not a special interest group, particularly if these players are still playing DA at this point.

to be fair, not sure that a combo u18/u19 yr age group, or any combo yr age group for that matter, is the right way to go but easy on the characterization of Q4 calendar year dobs.

odds are already artificially super stacked against these kids by the powers that be.
 
Kante said:
as you know, I look to you for (always very good) guidance on a number of questions, but have to disagree on a point here.

25% of the potential player population - i.e. oct thru dec dobs - is not a special interest group, particularly if these players are still playing DA at this point.

to be fair, not sure that a combo u18/u19 yr age group, or any combo yr age group for that matter, is the right way to go but easy on the characterization of Q4 calendar year dobs.

odds are already artificially super stacked against these kids by the powers that be.
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Fair enough, but making a special case for just one small % of adults (18+) seems like a step backwards to me. Calendar year but..

For the other leagues or HS sure why not, u19's/2001 in national & state cup. For DA I don't see this a good platform for 18yr olds unless something changes. USL academy is starting next year so maybe that would work for those that value more team continuity.
 
jpeter said:
Fair enough, but making a special case for just one small % of adults (18+) seems like a step backwards to me. Calendar year but..

For the other leagues or HS sure why not, u19's/2001 in national & state cup. For DA I don't see this a good platform for 18yr olds unless something changes. USL academy is starting next year so maybe that would work for those that value more team continuity.
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The way the system works now - based on calendar year - kids born Jan to Mar are artificially favored for every DA age group except u18/u19.

The 25% of the potential player pool that are oct to dec dob's are not, imo, either a special interest group or a special case or a small %.

(stepping up on my high horse...)

If this 25% was, instead of being oct to dec dob, a specific ethnic group being systematically disadvantaged in a blatant and obvious manner, (and, btw, I've gone on record multiple times saying US Soccer is doing just this thing), there would be outrage.

(stepping down off my high horse...)

Guess my point is that continuing u18/19, with it being the one time in the DA system where the Oct to Dec dob players have equal footing for once, seems the very, lowest minimum the DA can do. Come on, Jpeter, throw the youngers a bone... ;)
 
Kante said:
The way the system works now - based on calendar year - kids born Jan to Mar are artificially favored for every DA age group except u18/u19.

The 25% of the potential player pool that are oct to dec dob's are not, imo, either a special interest group or a special case or a small %.

(stepping up on my high horse...)

If this 25% was, instead of being oct to dec dob, a specific ethnic group being systematically disadvantaged in a blatant and obvious manner, (and, btw, I've gone on record multiple times saying US Soccer is doing just this thing), there would be outrage.

(stepping down off my high horse...)

Guess my point is that continuing u18/19, with it being the one time in the DA system where the Oct to Dec dob players have equal footing for once, seems the very, lowest minimum the DA can do. Come on, Jpeter, throw the youngers a bone... ;)
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Ah get you, just so everyone knows both my players are/where on the younger side Q4 born but at 18 it's much too late to throw them a bone. The bone needs to happen at much younger age IMO to make any real difference.

U18/19 was only introduced in DA when the calendar year change happen to give a bridge to some players so they could finish out. Those bridges have been crossed now after 3 seasons so it's time.
 
jpeter said:
Ah get you, just so everyone knows both my players are/where on the younger side Q4 born but at 18 it's much too late to throw them a bone. The bone needs to happen at much younger age IMO to make any real difference.

U18/19 was only introduced in DA when the calendar year change happen to give a bridge to some players so they could finish out. Those bridges have been crossed now after 3 seasons so it's time.
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agreed on bone/much younger age. unfortunately ussda had a couple of good ideas - futures camp, TC's specifically including Q4 dob players - but those items both went away in 2018-19.
 
Kante said:
agreed on bone/much younger age. unfortunately ussda had a couple of good ideas - futures camp, TC's specifically including Q4 dob players - but those items both went away in 2018-19.
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Bio- banding is a must for the US at younger ages. Coaches training in Germany and Spain is also a must. These must be US Soccer initiatives.
 
jpeter said:
No bother to me just not think it's appropriate platform for adults at that age or to play down.

18 yrs olds or turning 19 are essentially adults so why with play kids up to 3 years younger, that's not what DA should be about IMO. Competition is just not good enough and there are plenty of other places to play vs other adults.
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Ya, you’re pretty much off base here. Again...this is about giving young U19s a place to play their senior year of high school. If young 2001s are playing against the better 2003s (who have been IDed as good enough to play up) this season, so be it. Better for those 2003s and gives these 2001s a place to play in 12th grade before they enter college the following academic year.

Since many of the 2002s this season will be 18yr old legal adults before playoffs are done next summer, should they also be excluded once they turn 18? Your argument doesn’t hold water.
 
SBFDad said:
Ya, you’re pretty much off base here. Again...this is about giving young U19s a place to play their senior year of high school. If young 2001s are playing against the better 2003s (who have been IDed as good enough to play up) this season, so be it. Better for those 2003s and gives these 2001s a place to play in 12th grade before they enter college the following academic year.

Since many of the 2002s this season will be 18yr old legal adults before playoffs are done next summer, should they also be excluded once they turn 18? Your argument doesn’t hold water.
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Your all mixed up it's 18yrs old before the season starts not after thus u19. nothing to do with 02's never mentioned anything but 01' so I don't no what you're arguing about.

01s are 18-19yrs old playing w / 03's that where 15-16 at the time, at the Galaxy U18/19 so if you think a 3 yr age difference helps yes it does for the 03's but for the 01's well i don't think so. There are plenty of other leagues, usl to play in for 18yr olds.
 
jpeter said:
Your all mixed up it's 18yrs old before the season starts not after thus u19. nothing to do with 02's never mentioned anything but 01' so I don't no what you're arguing about. 01s are 18-19yrs old playing w / 03's that where 15-16 at the time
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Wait. What? Someone's math is off. Could be me, but don't think so. Let's first establish that the DA season ends in July for those that make a deep playoff run...

Since most of the 2001s that are seniors in HS (and still playing DA) were born after July 2001, doesn't that mean that they started their U19 season as 17yr olds and will finish up their U19 season as 18yr olds?

Example - A current U19 player born Dec 4, 2001 is celebrating his 18th birthday today and will still be 18 in July 2020. He started the season in Aug/Sep as a older 17yr old. True?

Are there really any U19s that are seniors in high school born prior to July? If so, that's got to be a very small percentage. So we penalize the entire lot of U19s from playing their senior year because of this possibility?

Why are you convinced that U19s who are "18yrs old before the season starts" and that "01s are 18-19yrs old playing w / 03's that where 15-16 at the time", shouldn't be allowed to play DA their senior year of high school? Does the fact that that start at 17 and finish at 18 change your view?

Someone check the math please or guess we could just move along.
 
SBFDad said:
Wait. What? Someone's math is off. Could be me, but don't think so. Let's first establish that the DA season ends in July for those that make a deep playoff run...

Since most of the 2001s that are seniors in HS (and still playing DA) were born after July 2001, doesn't that mean that they started their U19 season as 17yr olds and will finish up their U19 season as 18yr olds?

Example - A current U19 player born Dec 4, 2001 is celebrating his 18th birthday today and will still be 18 in July 2020. He started the season in Aug/Sep as a older 17yr old. True?

Are there really any U19s that are seniors in high school born prior to July? If so, that's got to be a very small percentage. So we penalize the entire lot of U19s from playing their senior year because of this possibility?

Why are you convinced that U19s who are "18yrs old before the season starts" and that "01s are 18-19yrs old playing w / 03's that where 15-16 at the time", shouldn't be allowed to play DA their senior year of high school? Does the fact that that start at 17 and finish at 18 change your view?

Someone check the math please or guess we could just move along.
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Your examples are the extreme ends of the scale need to consider the norms. Simple 80/20 rule. No body is punishing anybody as there are choices

The senior class this year is > 80% made up of 2002's. Big majority of 01's already in college. A small % of 01's are still in HS and playing DA.

Galaxy has just one 01 player he started thre season as a 18yr old going on 19. He's played along side players that where 15 at the start going on 16. That's it. DA is not about playing down.
 
jpeter said:
Your examples are the extreme ends of the scale need to consider the norms. Simple 80/20 rule. No body is punishing anybody as there are choices

The senior class this year is > 80% made up of 2002's. Big majority of 01's already in college. A small % of 01's are still in HS and playing DA.

Galaxy has just one 01 player he started the season as a 18yr old going on 19. He's played along side players that where 15 at the start going on 16. That's it. DA is not about playing down.
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Man, I really am trying to see your point, but I just don't see the logic. You're trying to keep the younger 2001s from making a mistake by short-changing their development by playing "down"? If they're ready to move to a higher league like USL, ok do that. If not, then allow them to finish their senior year in DA. I don't get it.

And I don't think my examples really are the extreme. Almost all 2001s in DA are younger 01s still in high school. Not extreme, normal. I would see the value in a rule that only would allow U19s to play that meet certain criteria...gotta be in HS and must be born after a certain month (ie. July-ish).

You clearly think that birth-year trumps their status as HS seniors. Fair enough. Agree to disagree.
 
Desert Hound said:
U19 is not a different story. The reason they do the last age group a combo of 18/19 is that you have kids that started school later. My kid being one of them. When the BULK of my kids team are seniors...there will be some on that team that are juniors. So when they become seniors they are u19s. That is why both ECNL and DA have the final age group as U18/U19
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Agree. My son is in the same category. Could not understand where the earlier post was coming from on this issue.
 
SBFDad said:
Man, I really am trying to see your point, but I just don't see the logic. You're trying to keep the younger 2001s from making a mistake by short-changing their development by playing "down"? If they're ready to move to a higher league like USL, ok do that. If not, then allow them to finish their senior year in DA. I don't get it.

And I don't think my examples really are the extreme. Almost all 2001s in DA are younger 01s still in high school. Not extreme, normal. I would see the value in a rule that only would allow U19s to play that meet certain criteria...gotta be in HS and must be born after a certain month (ie. July-ish).

You clearly think that birth-year trumps their status as HS seniors. Fair enough. Agree to disagree.
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Calendar year is what it is and nothing Trump's that. Continuing combo Age groups is a circumvent to that. HS status can change/vary read Gracie post but accommodating a 20% minority is not cost effective or needed in DA.

Jan-Oct 2001( all the way to Dec in some cases as grace noted) are college freshmen. Nov-Dec 2001 HS seniors this year are the 20% minority. Look at the DA rosters very few 01's, why so you think that is? Moved on or went to college.

Shortchanging nope those players had 5 or more seasons of DA opportunities. At 18yrs do there really need another one playing vs 80% younger players in DA? I don't think they do as there are more appropriate platforms. Seniors well they can play HS, club, usl, etc. As 18 yrs adults they can play & do as they want in most cases. There are plenty of places to play besides DA at 18.

If your son was not a Nov-Dec dob you might see the logic better & understand the 80/20.

The currently u18/19 combo has been a plus actually for my player but two years from now he will be long gone even though he would still be eligible so I have nothing to gain from a change. However, my experience tells me that the 80% would. Not about my player, in the future DA would be better served to focus on the 5 age groups: u14-U18 like they did for the first 8 years and leave everything else for the rest of the youth soccer world.
 
jpeter said:
Calendar year is what it is and nothing Trump's that. Continuing combo Age groups is a circumvent to that. HS status can change/vary read Gracie post but accommodating a 20% minority is not cost effective or needed in DA.

Jan-Oct 2001( all the way to Dec in some cases as grace noted) are college freshmen. Nov-Dec 2001 HS seniors this year are the 20% minority. Look at the DA rosters very few 01's, why so you think that is? Moved on or went to college.

Shortchanging nope those players had 5 or more seasons of DA opportunities. At 18yrs do there really need another one playing vs 80% younger players in DA? I don't think they do as there are more appropriate platforms. Seniors well they can play HS, club, usl, etc. As 18 yrs adults they can play & do as they want in most cases. There are plenty of places to play besides DA at 18.

If your son was not a Nov-Dec dob you might see the logic better & understand the 80/20.

The currently u18/19 combo has been a plus actually for my player but two years from now he will be long gone even though he would still be eligible so I have nothing to gain from a change. However, my experience tells me that the 80% would. Not about my player, in the future DA would be better served to focus on the 5 age groups: u14-U18 like they did for the first 8 years and leave everything else for the rest of the youth soccer world.
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Ok. You’re point is clear, but I do disagree. Yes most 01s have moved on to college, but I think it’s legit to allow those that haven’t to continue to play in DA. Although, I do like the thought of meeting specific criteria...younger, still in HS.

To be fair, mine is a March birthday that will graduate after U18. This argument won’t apply to him, but I see the point of and agree with those folks with younger birth-year players.
 
SBFDad said:
Ok. You’re point is clear, but I do disagree. Yes most 01s have moved on to college, but I think it’s legit to allow those that haven’t to continue to play in DA. Although, I do like the thought of meeting specific criteria...younger, still in HS.

To be fair, mine is a March birthday that will graduate after U18. This argument won’t apply to him, but I see the point of and agree with those folks with younger birth-year players.
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Alrighty good to see you considering others outside your box.

Giving 18 yrs adults another chance since they didn't enough of those as youth players doesn't seem to be a good reason or sound investment for DA currently but I can understand we're some might think it's in their best interest. I for one don't subscribe to that train of thought especially when you consider who they are playing with but heck their 18 and can make there own decisions, sign and do whatever. Parents sometimes value status or titles more than players do, mine for one just wants to play the best competition wherever that is: DA at 18yrs going on 19 is not that place for him. DA need to revamp or have some sort of transitional bridge like USL for these older players if they want them to keep developing at a certain rate.
 
Confirmed notes from last night's Winter Showcase Presentation: For 2020-2021:
U13 Season (08s): is on. Will not participate in Showcase but encouraged to participate in outside competitions. DA expanding that list of approved tournaments, etc.
as it has been said, U16/17 will remain a combo year.
Two-tier will not expand to multiple age groups.
U14 group- no change. Next year, 07s will be run just as the 06s were this year.
U15- No winter showcase participation. But, Non-MLS DAs will have a Fall Showcase. MLS Clubs have their own youth cup.
Interesting statement: "Need to develop pathway to move top talent to top clubs."

Bio-Banding Event will be 1/1/20 at Silverlakes.
 
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