Turning Pro at 13

Chalklines said:
Here's some curve balls for argument sake.

Are we being more critical because she's not a boy? Why arnt we trashing all the boys in Europe for signing with professional clubs and academys at a young age?

Personally I think OM path looks screwed up from the outside because here in the states we really don't have a proven blueprint for our male/female players. She's a trailblazer right now just like Pulisic was.
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I think that is a fair question to ask and one we should all consider. That said, I think the answer is "no, sort of" because even if we are critical of a 13yo boy signing a pro deal (I can certainly get into my issues with the European academy model), a career as a soccer player is far more possible for that boy than for any 13yo girl. If a boy is good enough to play professionally even in the 2d or 3d divisions in Europe, he can earn a living (10 years ago (the first article I found in a recent search), 2d to 4th tier English players make, on average: "£195,750, League One players £67,850 and League Two £49,600"; premier league players averaged more than 3x; my guess is that those #s are higher - considerably? - today). The top women players can't touch that unless they are in the elite among the elite category, in a WC year (add in a substantial sum if they have the intangibles to ink endorsement deals).

Until the economics change, it seems that the dream that even the best 13yo will be the best 24yo with intangibles for endorsements is still a risky dream and, at 13yo, one gives up a TON to be on those very few players.
 
The Outlaw said:
I would tend to agree with this, 43, but honestly... I'm not aware of a single soccer player (in the U.S.) that's chasing it for the money. I think the sport still has some "purity" left in that respect.
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that may be true - I'd like to think it is - but it IS b/c of the huge money that US teens are being signed and moved to European academies. It is not because those academies are interested in the kid's love of the sport - they want to have kids there who can help them lift a Cup or two or many and allow them to make $$$ (directly or through the ensuing transfers). But for the huge money involved, the monied academies would not be scouting in far flung lands.
 
Soccer43 said:
Yes, of course but to give up a free college education before going pro makes no sense- there is not a financial benefit to that. You can follow your passion for the game while you get a free college education
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My understanding is that the Nike deal is for more than enough money to pay for a college.
 
Chalklines said:
Here's some curve balls for argument sake.

Are we being more critical because she's not a boy? Why arnt we trashing all the boys in Europe for signing with professional clubs and academys at a young age?

Personally I think OM path looks screwed up from the outside because here in the states we really don't have a proven blueprint for our male/female players. She's a trailblazer right now just like Pulisic was.
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I am not sure she is a trailblazer, that point is debatable. Pulisic became one without really knowing it.
 
outside! said:
My understanding is that the Nike deal is for more than enough money to pay for a college.
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I guess I look at as: is she a soccer player who signed an endorsement deal and that is sufficient to giving up what she no doubt will (and it may be more than sufficient) or is she more like a child actor who can make some money on a sitcom or a movie but still go to college (like Jodie Foster or Fred Savage or numerous others). She can certainly be both, in a way - right now she's a soccer player but if, say, she falls out of love with it at 17 or 18 or maybe plateaus at 16, she can be more like the child actor. And maybe not playing in college is worth that risk.

To me, it is not because, w/o knowing more, it seems to interfere with a lot of child development in addition to fixing her into a specific, narrow, athletic path. That said, I don't know her. I don't know her folks. And I wish her well. (I really dislike the new Nike ad because I think it is just so overly simplified - the first 13yo to go pro? - it makes it sound like she is a trailblazer in a path that is reasonable for other girls to consider)
 
LASTMAN14 said:
I am not sure she is a trailblazer, that point is debatable. Pulisic became one without really knowing it.
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Time will tell... in the meantime, who knows how big her endorsement deal is... it’s certainly a risk she chose to take and I say good for her! Why?!? Because it does provide insight for the rest of us on whether or not a pathway can be made for women in professional soccer. Those with daughters playing soccer should be hoping for her success, not knocking the risk she took!
 
I do agree that the headline is a bit misleading. But if I had a 13 year old that could sign a deal that would easily pay for college, we would give it serious consideration.
 
dk_b said:
I guess I look at as: is she a soccer player who signed an endorsement deal and that is sufficient to giving up what she no doubt will (and it may be more than sufficient) or is she more like a child actor who can make some money on a sitcom or a movie but still go to college (like Jodie Foster or Fred Savage or numerous others). She can certainly be both, in a way - right now she's a soccer player but if, say, she falls out of love with it at 17 or 18 or maybe plateaus at 16, she can be more like the child actor. And maybe not playing in college is worth that risk.

To me, it is not because, w/o knowing more, it seems to interfere with a lot of child development in addition to fixing her into a specific, narrow, athletic path. That said, I don't know her. I don't know her folks. And I wish her well. (I really dislike the new Nike ad because I think it is just so overly simplified - the first 13yo to go pro? - it makes it sound like she is a trailblazer in a path that is reasonable for other girls to consider)
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I read/viewed an interview with her mother. I didn't like her (the mother, that is) after that. That made me suspicious of the whole process - a child who is best on her beginner team inspires her parents to give her every advantage they can afford (and they can afford a lot) and then try to turn the marketing process back to their own benefit. One item of suspicion - if they had stayed in California, the young performer would have been protected to sosme degree under the Jackie Coogan Law. I'm not sure what the situation is in Oregon.
 
outside! said:
I do agree that the headline is a bit misleading. But if I had a 13 year old that could sign a deal that would easily pay for college, we would give it serious consideration.
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I think this entirely depends on what college tuition we are talking about the deal covering. Could it pay USC tuition? Or Cal State Northridge tuition??
 
Real Deal said:
I think this entirely depends on what college tuition we are talking about the deal covering. Could it pay USC tuition? Or Cal State Northridge tuition??
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It doesn’t matter. At age 13, going pro will give her more work/real life experience than any other high school kid out there by the time she turns 18. Her parents will continue to home school her and so long as she learns the curriculum and scores well on SAT’s, she can always apply to college and for certain she will standout and get in. The only thing she loses is the ability to play college ball - but she could still play for a pro/semi pro team during college if she wanted or just focus on academics.

Her parents also have enough money that athletic scholarship money isn’t going to be a huge decision driver.
 
Supermodel56 said:
Time will tell... in the meantime, who knows how big her endorsement deal is... it’s certainly a risk she chose to take and I say good for her! Why?!? Because it does provide insight for the rest of us on whether or not a pathway can be made for women in professional soccer. Those with daughters playing soccer should be hoping for her success, not knocking the risk she took!
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I don't think that discussing pros and cons is unfair or out of bounds. Her parents have made her a public figure and their very public decision is fair game for discussion, praise, criticism, dissection, etc. To you their decision provides info regarding pro soccer as a pathway for women pros. Fair enough and but, for me, this provides more information about whether or not one 13yo prodigy (of which there are others) is able to capitalize (I don't mean that in a critical way at all) for a very risky decision. Because you and I have different takes - some might say we disagree - does not mean that your point is not reasonable nor does it mean that mine is not. I realize that I often don't internet correctly b/c I don't think views that differ from mine are signs of character flaws as I don't think disagreement, reasonably expressed, is a bad thing.

I do wish her well but her decision provides little info for me - I'd prefer to look at the young women in college right now as they weigh pro prospects and "real world" jobs after they graduate. That is a far more likely path for the vast, vast majority of the elite players and the possible path for one of my three daughters. The players making significant money are not the ones who are simply elite - they are the elite of the elite and marketable in other ways. How does a 13yo help with that? Unless the $$$ increases significantly throughout women's soccer, she will remain an outlier (and I just hope it does not end badly with Nike or her agent or her folks exploiting this particular time when she's a unique "earner" - as @espola notes, the Coogan laws did not come from no where.
 
dk_b said:
I don't think that discussing pros and cons is unfair or out of bounds. Her parents have made her a public figure and their very public decision is fair game for discussion, praise, criticism, dissection, etc. To you their decision provides info regarding pro soccer as a pathway for women pros. Fair enough and but, for me, this provides more information about whether or not one 13yo prodigy (of which there are others) is able to capitalize (I don't mean that in a critical way at all) for a very risky decision. Because you and I have different takes - some might say we disagree - does not mean that your point is not reasonable nor does it mean that mine is not. I realize that I often don't internet correctly b/c I don't think views that differ from mine are signs of character flaws as I don't think disagreement, reasonably expressed, is a bad thing.

I do wish her well but her decision provides little info for me - I'd prefer to look at the young women in college right now as they weigh pro prospects and "real world" jobs after they graduate. That is a far more likely path for the vast, vast majority of the elite players and the possible path for one of my three daughters. The players making significant money are not the ones who are simply elite - they are the elite of the elite and marketable in other ways. How does a 13yo help with that? Unless the $$$ increases significantly throughout women's soccer, she will remain an outlier (and I just hope it does not end badly with Nike or her agent or her folks exploiting this particular time when she's a unique "earner" - as @espola notes, the Coogan laws did not come from no where.
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And the Coogan law is not really that restrictive - the parents can do whatever they like with 85% or so of her earnings. I'm sure they will need a new SUV so they can get to practice on time.

In the videos I have seen of her on the field, I got the impression that she is competent playing with older players (as one would expect after years of private instruction) but not overwhelming. It cannot yet be determined whether she will grow up to be physically dominant at 18 or 20.
 
dk_b said:
I don't think that discussing pros and cons is unfair or out of bounds. Her parents have made her a public figure and their very public decision is fair game for discussion, praise, criticism, dissection, etc. To you their decision provides info regarding pro soccer as a pathway for women pros. Fair enough and but, for me, this provides more information about whether or not one 13yo prodigy (of which there are others) is able to capitalize (I don't mean that in a critical way at all) for a very risky decision. Because you and I have different takes - some might say we disagree - does not mean that your point is not reasonable nor does it mean that mine is not. I realize that I often don't internet correctly b/c I don't think views that differ from mine are signs of character flaws as I don't think disagreement, reasonably expressed, is a bad thing.

I do wish her well but her decision provides little info for me - I'd prefer to look at the young women in college right now as they weigh pro prospects and "real world" jobs after they graduate. That is a far more likely path for the vast, vast majority of the elite players and the possible path for one of my three daughters. The players making significant money are not the ones who are simply elite - they are the elite of the elite and marketable in other ways. How does a 13yo help with that? Unless the $$$ increases significantly throughout women's soccer, she will remain an outlier (and I just hope it does not end badly with Nike or her agent or her folks exploiting this particular time when she's a unique "earner" - as @espola notes, the Coogan laws did not come from no where.
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It’s totally fair to have your own opinion and decide if it’s something you would do... that wasn’t what I meant. And you’re right, usually college is the pathway to the pros.

What I meant to point out was just the risk she took and how we all will benefit from this if she succeeds and from learnings if the experiment fails. The big question for investors right now is can money be made from women’s sports?

Will people watch? Buy fan gear? Attend games? Is there a large enough audience?

IMHO if we want to see opportunities in pro soccer for our daughters to open up, it’d be in our best interest to encourage these endorsements, help them get eyeballs, buy the gear and help generate positive buzz. If these experiments fail, at some point the big players are going to give up. This is where we need to invest our time and energy and build the house together... just my opinion.

Would I encourage my daughter to make the same decision... hard to say... Given she is talented and could do really well in other careers, she’d be putting a lot at risk. It really would have to be her decision if she felt she had the talent and passion for it. But I am thankful OM is taking the risk on behalf of all of us, intentionally or not!
 
Ya know, as I think about it... When men take risks, other men say, that guys a fearless badass (or sometimes a moron). When women take a risk, other women go, who the hell does she think she is?

When I touched on this in the other thread regarding race, etc... people thought I was being racist but my point was we hold ourselves back more than anything else. It wasn’t to justify racism.

When we don’t believe we can, when we’re afraid of failure or think failure is the worst thing possible, that is what holds us back. If you never take the risk, you never change things. And if you really want to change something, you’ve gotta go all in.
 
There are so many things to invest in. For pro women’s soccer to take off (or anything for that matter) it needs to get to the point where massive numbers of people can’t help themselves but want to tune in to watch. Think about it... football is more than just the touchdowns - which are amazing plays, but you’re also watching because you love seeing the hits and ints on the other side of the ball are entertaining as well. I hate Mayweather and swear off watching his matches every time, but I tune in because I can’t help but want to see him get his ass whooped. (He’s brilliant btw)

Tiger, Jordan, Kobe, Messi. its more than them just being great players, they are/were incredibly fun to watch and you’ll sit there for two hours or more hoping you’ll get to witness something amazing. This is how you sustain a sport or at least launch one.

Do I think Olivia is enough? Prob not. But that is the hook WPSL and Nike are hoping for. How do we get people engaged and hooked on this sport?
 
She isn't a pro soccer player. She's an actress. Will the endorsement money continue to stream in for the 5 years until she can actually play professional soccer? Maybe.
And maybe it's at dollar amounts that are life changing. Great. But if it isn't she sacrificed a lot to sit around and wait for 5 years to debut with the Thorns. When she could've had the EXACT same path but in her hometown (training up, homeschool and playing on various teams) and still had the option for college.

And let's say she goes pro at 18 and is amazing. Will it matter? Maybe.

In a year when she hasn't played a meaningful game in over 12 months time will anyone care about her? Will they keep making commercials about a girl who hasn't done much other than be a really really good youth player and train a lot?

Maybe.

A lot of maybes. Curious to see how it all plays out. I think she's exceptional so no hating from me. But again...glad it's not my kid.
 
IMO, the parents are doing it for the hype and maybe not the best interest of the child. You all know that you cannot make up this youth years once we get old. She is missing time with her friends, extended family, and just missing out on being a teenager. All for $20k to $40k a year? I guess she can make it endorsements but again she is just 13. Even most elite boys at age 13 are not guaranteed star players.

Here’s an article of her current situation
https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports...a-topflight-club-so-whats-next-211506300.html
 
I don’t know the details but am fairly confident that it is not a multi-million dollar deal so it just doesn’t make sense. Again, she did not give up her eligibility to play pro- she gave up her eligibility to be in a Nike commercial - I don’t think that is for the love of the game
 
Geez guys not everyone has to follow the same path. So what if she doesn't fit into your preconceived notion of what makes a teenager happy. Maybe this is exactly what she wants. Maybe she fails. So what. Life moves on.

So college is the end goal? Not for everyone. Her decision doesn't compute in your cost benefit analysis? What an uninspired way of living your life.

Times are changing. Opportunities for women are changing.

Bravo to her for not taking the safe path and going for it.
 
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