USWNT

All this rain...Finally watched the USWNT v. Spain game. Much better effort from the US side than vs. France because they had proper players in place -- Rapinoe and Heath on the wings primarily as Lavelle was nonexistant in the game in the middle. Also better effort from US because Spain not as strong as France (France 3:1 to win WWC, Spain 20:1 (same as Canada)). BUT, Spain controlled the game. AND, if Spain got better, more aggressive, play from their wingers, they could have won/draw. Each time their players moved the ball beautifully through midfield out to the forwards, their wingers "chickened out" and chose to conservatively pass the ball back to the middle (usually losing it) rather than attacking US's outside backs 1v1. Maybe they don't have that 1v1 skill in their skillset? Maybe it was just a confidence thing? I dunno, but if Spain finds just one player who can attack successfully they will get more opportunities on goal, and chances are 1 or 2 will go in. The Spain u17 had a couple wingers who attacked successfully -- maybe they're not quite mature enough for the big girls team...yet.

A good goal by Press -- weak foot strike into the corner. But that's her game -- straight run using her speed. One-trick pony. As I've said above, she's a "9". Not a 7 nor an 11. But neither she (nor Morgan actually) nor the several other players who are converted 9s--Pugh, Dunn, etc. are good with their passing while back to goal. And so, US is left with relying upon set-piece scores or a goal from pure straight-run speed. I guess that's an improvement from Wambach headers, but I'd still prefer to see the team just try to connect the ball more like Spain (or France) does as Rapinoe and Heath DO have the 1v1 game to create chances. I just don't think the squad is capable of playing that way.

Bottom line - US needs 2-3 defenders (like Davidson), at least one midfielder and a striker who are better with their feet and more confident on the dribble. Then we will get threaded passes through the middle instead of hopeful balls over the top, subsequent 1-2 touch passes out to the wings, then 1v1 play with balls back into the middle or into the box for scoring chances. Not pointless possession but meaningful, attacking possession. There is a difference and that's why I don't pay much attention to the possession % stats. Watch the game, and if you know soccer, you know who's controlling the game. Watch a ManCity vs. Liverpool game -- both teams try to win the ball and keep the ball--that's possession.

Especially as home team, France is the favorite to win in my book. Fingers crossed that Canada can get out of Group, but it's a toughie (Netherlands, New Zealand, Cameroon). And good on US for playing two challenging opponents prior to WC. It will make them better.
 
For those who are following the gender discrimination issues, this morning the USWNT players filed their lawsuit against US Soccer...

From the NYT: "All 28 members of the world champion United States women’s national team filed a gender discrimination lawsuit against the United States Soccer Federation on Friday, a sudden and significant escalation of a long-running fight over pay equity and working conditions that comes only months before the team will begin defense of its Women’s World Cup title."

Here is the link: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/08/...scrimination.html?smid=tw-nytsports&smtyp=cur
 
It is hard to deny, based on the facts as presented, that US Soccer has treated the men and women differently when it comes to fields and travel. That is just plain wrong and stupid on the part of US Soccer. And good to see the MNT come out in support.

Those of us who support women's soccer, and are older than our kids, remember what it was like from 2003-2009 (without any professional women's league, nor federation support), and how fleeting support was for WPS was from the MLS and large donors in 2009-2012. While it was fun to watch WNT players playing on our local college fields and soccer parks in WPSL, it was not a career for any female player. The current structure for women was based, in part, on trying to provide stability to the professional women's game. It likely is not perfect, and needs work. I just hope they do not win this battle, only to lose the war (put the survival of the NWSL and professional women's soccer in the US at risk).

As an aside, less than 100 days out, and I have yet to see much marketing of the Women's World Cup on television. I watch Bundesliga, EPL, some MLS, and most national team games. Perhaps they are running commercials during reality TV shows, but from a soccer fan perspective, pretty pathetic.
 
Tea and Busquets said:
Possession stats aren't necessarily based on time with the ball. Depending on who's doing the measuring they're calculated using number of passes completed. https://slate.com/culture/2014/06/s...ory-of-the-games-most-controversial-stat.html
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Let me simplify -- it's total bullshit. You can get any number you want by redefining the parameters used to measure it. An example -- Blue GK saves a shot at his goal by grabbing the ball with both hands, presumably starting his team's current time of possession under any rational definition of it. He rolls the ball out to a teammate Blue #2 near the right touchline, and White #10 runs in and is able to deflect the ball with a slide tackle, but Blue #2 gets control of the ball anyway. Blue #2 taps the ball forward to Blue #4, but White #7 arrives quickly enough get in a 50-50 situation with Blue#4, the result of which is a ball over the touchline. The referee could not see which player last touched the ball before it went out, so he seeks advice from the AR on that side, who admits he did not have a clear view either. The referee decides to restart with a dropped ball, but notices Blue #4 is on the ground with an injury due to the collision with White #7. After calling in the medics and allowing substitute Blue #12 to enter for Blue #4, the dropped ball is touched by players from both teams, with the result that the ball is over the center line heading in the direction favored by Blue. Blue #11 takes a long distance shot at White's goal, which is headed by White defender attempting to clear the ball - but the ball is still headed for the far post. White GKis able to get his hands on the ball just enough to deflect it wide, but the ball strikes his teammate White #3 in the butt and bounces in for a Blue goal.

About 8 minutes have passed during the activities described above. How much possession time does Team Blue get?

BTW, I like the idea of counting relative numbers of completed passes, but I wouldn't call that "possession".
 
eastbaysoccer said:
Woman just sued US soccer. If they bring more sponsorship dollars they they should be paid more the men.
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It's not the direct sponsorship money, it's the World Cup money. Per the NYT: "One of the biggest differences in compensation is the multimillion-dollar bonuses the teams receive for participating in the World Cup, but those bonuses — a pool of $400 million for 32 men’s teams versus $30 million for 24 women’s teams — are determined by FIFA, world soccer’s governing body, not U.S. Soccer."
 
It’s relatively simple. Add up sponsorship $, gate receipts and TV revenue (this is the hard one) - subtract their annual salaries in which they are paid (the men are not) - and then give the the same % of the remainder as the men.

If it turns out to be more, great. If it turns out to be less, so be it, it’s equal to the men.
 
texanincali said:
It’s relatively simple. Add up sponsorship $, gate receipts and TV revenue (this is the hard one) - subtract their annual salaries in which they are paid (the men are not) - and then give the the same % of the remainder as the men.

If it turns out to be more, great. If it turns out to be less, so be it, it’s equal to the men.
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No. This argument ignores the very heart of the problem. The investment into women’s soccer hasn’t been nearly equivalent to that of men’s. Just pay these women who in the last couple years have generated more revenue with a fraction of the investment and income. Pay them equally and communicate that they are of the same value with the same long term market potential. Recognize that they are growing the sport in the US as much if not more than the men. Don’t you see your daughters play on the field with all the same heart and commitment that your sons do? Don’t you value watching your daughters as much as your sons? Don’t help hold up that ceiling that your daughter is trying to break with these old, tired arguments about boys teams being better and comparing revenue. Even the MNT gets it. That’s what is simple.
 
How did the women generate more revenue?
Didn’t US host the Copa 2 years ago and each host city generated a ton of economic revenue..
Both teams play with heart.
The US women clearly deserve more Benifits from thier proven victories, but the men’s game, everywhere, is the money maker.
 
jojosoccer said:
How did the women generate more revenue?
Didn’t US host the Copa 2 years ago and each host city generated a ton of economic revenue..
Both teams play with heart.
The US women clearly deserve more Benifits from thier proven victories, but the men’s game, everywhere, is the money maker.
Click to expand...

They did it by winning a World Cup that a lot of people enjoyed watching. Would be so cool to see that again. I’ll buy some extra WNT gear and watch a couple extra NWSL games to compensate for some of you who don’t see it the same way and hopefully at least a couple extra people will ponder why the men’s game is (usually, like except for in 2016 in the US) the moneymaker everywhere.
 
I support our WNT, in fact I’ll be in France for 2 games in June. And I won’t miss a game if the tournament on TV.
But that doesn’t change Saturday mornings watching EPL, Bundesliege. and mid eeek UCL. The men’s game is faster, stronger and entertaining. That’s why it generates $$$
It’s a different game. The women’s game is good, but it’s not the same as them men’s game. WWC will be amazing, no doubt. The WNT should be compensated, but the fact is, it does not bring in the same worldwide revenue.
I’ve tried watching NWSL even though they don’t get a lot of TV coverage. If the league had more media coverage, do you think it would bring in more $$$?
 
Yes, I think more advertising and media coverage would help at all levels of the women’s game. I also think we still have a long way to go with regards to culture change.
 
jojosoccer said:
I support our WNT, in fact I’ll be in France for 2 games in June. And I won’t miss a game if the tournament on TV.
But that doesn’t change Saturday mornings watching EPL, Bundesliege. and mid eeek UCL. The men’s game is faster, stronger and entertaining. That’s why it generates $$$
It’s a different game. The women’s game is good, but it’s not the same as them men’s game. WWC will be amazing, no doubt. The WNT should be compensated, but the fact is, it does not bring in the same worldwide revenue.
I’ve tried watching NWSL even though they don’t get a lot of TV coverage. If the league had more media coverage, do you think it would bring in more $$$?
Click to expand...
It seems to me parents with daughters playing soccer will watch the WWC and parents with boys probably will not.
 
Soccerfan2 said:
No. This argument ignores the very heart of the problem. The investment into women’s soccer hasn’t been nearly equivalent to that of men’s. Just pay these women who in the last couple years have generated more revenue with a fraction of the investment and income. Pay them equally and communicate that they are of the same value with the same long term market potential. Recognize that they are growing the sport in the US as much if not more than the men. Don’t you see your daughters play on the field with all the same heart and commitment that your sons do? Don’t you value watching your daughters as much as your sons? Don’t help hold up that ceiling that your daughter is trying to break with these old, tired arguments about boys teams being better and comparing revenue. Even the MNT gets it. That’s what is simple.
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I prefer to try and use logic when speaking about these things, not pie in the sky, rainbows and unicorns.

Also, I think I work just as hard in my field as Messi does in his - I think we should be paid the same. Am I doing it right?

Also, I think maybe you need to do a tad more research. I assume thee are some MNT players that wished they had an annual salary from the Fed - whether they were chosen to play or not.

This suit is PR bulsh, but no doubt theybget somehting out of it.
 
No, you’re doing it wrong. You don’t have the same job and employer as Messi.
I’m not sure of the second point you’re making. By referencing the fact the WNT has guaranteed salary and MNT does not, are you saying you genuinely think the WNT is compensated at the same level as MNT? Since the lawsuit extends to working conditions and none of us have a very clear picture of all the pieces that go into compensation on both sides I find this point hard to debate, but 28 women who deal with the ins and outs every day feel they are undercompensated. It’s pretty insulting to them to call this a PR stunt. That attitude is the very disrespect they are trying to remedy.
 
Soccerfan2 said:
No, you’re doing it wrong. You don’t have the same job and employer as Messi.
I’m not sure of the second point you’re making. By referencing the fact the WNT has guaranteed salary and MNT does not, are you saying you genuinely think the WNT is compensated at the same level as MNT? Since the lawsuit extends to working conditions and none of us have a very clear picture of all the pieces that go into compensation on both sides I find this point hard to debate, but 28 women who deal with the ins and outs every day feel they are undercompensated. It’s pretty insulting to them to call this a PR stunt. That attitude is the very disrespect they are trying to remedy.
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Again, I am going to need to see some logic around your opinion if you are to change my mind.

Should NFL offensive linemen sue the NFL because they aren’t paid the same as QB’s? Should a middle reliever sue MLB because they don’t have a power hitting first baseman’s contract? I guess Manchester United’s Women’s team deserves the same wages as the Men’s team? Yet somehow even the men on the same team aren’t on the same wage.

I agree that the WNT should be paid the same % of their overall value. They should split off and demand USSF to separate their TV package and then it will be easy to see their value.

This is professional sports and it’s a business. It’s nice that you have these feelings of empathy, but that’s not how you make business decisions.
 
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