USWNT

Nothing will change unless there are catastrophic results...like going out in the round of 16.
 
LASTMAN14 said:
I’ve posted this opinion before but with disagreement from others. Having a common

I know its not a popular thing to say (as many posters have told me) but maybe we should look more closely at what countries are making the greatest growth. To be specific look at the last 3 WC teams (Spain, Germany, France) on the men's side who have won. Their women's game has steadily grown, changed, and are on a rising trajectory. Why? A common thread called a style of play. I did not mention Brazil and Japan because they are uniquely different. But should be mentioned.
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While I somewhat agree with you, Spain's style of play didn't exactly work out that well in 2018 WC.
 
LASTMAN14 said:
I’ve posted this opinion before but with disagreement from others. Having a common

I know its not a popular thing to say (as many posters have told me) but maybe we should look more closely at what countries are making the greatest growth. To be specific look at the last 3 WC teams (Spain, Germany, France) on the men's side who have won. Their women's game has steadily grown, changed, and are on a rising trajectory. Why? A common thread called a style of play. I did not mention Brazil and Japan because they are uniquely different. But should be mentioned.
Click to expand...

Agree, agree, agree...
I have said as much myself with the same pushback and here is what I have noticed about what the pushback has in common. They have no true understanding of the game. For most, their first experience with the game is when their own child began playing rec. For some, their kids suck but they know it all, for others, their kids are the best on the team so they MUST know it all and the lessors (parents) on the team listen to them. What they don't understand is the guy they are listening to whose kid is good is good, usually, through athleticism, not soccer IQ. When I say, we are falling behind, I don't mean that our women's team will lose in the first round of WWC (I actually expect them to win this year), what I am saying is that if we don't change, within 10 years, our women's team will be just like our men's team. Good but not great. I think it was Spain's coach that said it best when he said that we have millions of girls playing soccer in this country and only 42,000 (of all age groups) girls registered to play in Spain. Love when he said that we are in the same race and Spain is behind USA but Spain is running faster. Those countries you mention already know that they are making big leaps in their development and will soon pass us. That is why they now play with so much confidence against us. We have already lost the "Mike Tyson" advantage.
 
El Clasico said:
Agree, agree, agree...
I have said as much myself with the same pushback and here is what I have noticed about what the pushback has in common. They have no true understanding of the game. For most, their first experience with the game is when their own child began playing rec. For some, their kids suck but they know it all, for others, their kids are the best on the team so they MUST know it all and the lessors (parents) on the team listen to them. What they don't understand is the guy they are listening to whose kid is good is good, usually, through athleticism, not soccer IQ. When I say, we are falling behind, I don't mean that our women's team will lose in the first round of WWC (I actually expect them to win this year), what I am saying is that if we don't change, within 10 years, our women's team will be just like our men's team. Good but not great. I think it was Spain's coach that said it best when he said that we have millions of girls playing soccer in this country and only 42,000 (of all age groups) girls registered to play in Spain. Love when he said that we are in the same race and Spain is behind USA but Spain is running faster. Those countries you mention already know that they are making big leaps in their development and will soon pass us. That is why they now play with so much confidence against us. We have already lost the "Mike Tyson" advantage.
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Objectivity and always trying to learn more about the game as a parent with children playing could help curb that mentality. Yes, being proactive and starting now is the way to go. Beginning at the youngest ages as GToTheB mentioned is very important to foster those attributes needed to develop players. I also agree and hope our WNT can get far and possibly win, but it will not be done easily and could be ugly at times.
 
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I do not disagree that European teams often play a more pleasing style of soccer, I just disagree with the suggestion we emulate European youth development, particularly on the girls side, when the athletic, educational, employment and social environment here are vastly different. Soccer will not grow and flourish if they remove our national team program and players from public view (a la US Soccer's DA direction), and sever the link between education and athletics.

Our bigger issue is our national team staff's recurring habit of building all-star teams based on the best athletes and individual performances, and ending up with too many selfish players who lack the inclination nor experience to work together. It seems none of our national team coaches or scouts are looking for players like David Silva, Iniesta, Xabi Alonso, Vincent Kompany, Dani Alves -- smart/technical players capable of making an entire team better around them. That is the part of Europe we need to emulate, and those are the players we need to develop.

Best thing we have going right now in US Men's Soccer -- 16 players in the Bundesliga, over half 21 years old or younger.
 
Dos Equis said:
I do not disagree that European teams often play a more pleasing style of soccer, I just disagree with the suggestion we emulate European youth development, particularly on the girls side, when the athletic, educational, employment and social environment here are vastly different. Soccer will not grow and flourish if they remove our national team program and players from public view (a la US Soccer's DA direction), and sever the link between education and athletics.

Our bigger issue is our national team staff's recurring habit of building all-star teams based on the best athletes and individual performances, and ending up with too many selfish players who lack the inclination nor experience to work together. It seems none of our national team coaches or scouts are looking for players like David Silva, Iniesta, Xabi Alonso, Vincent Kompany, Dani Alves -- smart/technical players capable of making an entire team better around them. That is the part of Europe we need to emulate, and those are the players we need to develop.

Best thing we have going right now in US Men's Soccer -- 16 players in the Bundesliga, over half 21 years old or younger.
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There isn’t anything wrong with learning from them as they have created a means to an end that has been successful. And, more importantly continues to be. Then from there create a platform that meets our needs here. I’ve seen the curriculum here and it’s just a standard. Which is fine, but it does not provide specifics to get there. It’s like solving a math problem without showing your work. In those steps of solving that equation are growth patterns we need.
 
Dos Equis said:
I do not disagree that European teams often play a more pleasing style of soccer, I just disagree with the suggestion we emulate European youth development, particularly on the girls side, when the athletic, educational, employment and social environment here are vastly different. Soccer will not grow and flourish if they remove our national team program and players from public view (a la US Soccer's DA direction), and sever the link between education and athletics.

Our bigger issue is our national team staff's recurring habit of building all-star teams based on the best athletes and individual performances, and ending up with too many selfish players who lack the inclination nor experience to work together. It seems none of our national team coaches or scouts are looking for players like David Silva, Iniesta, Xabi Alonso, Vincent Kompany, Dani Alves -- smart/technical players capable of making an entire team better around them. That is the part of Europe we need to emulate, and those are the players we need to develop.

Best thing we have going right now in US Men's Soccer -- 16 players in the Bundesliga, over half 21 years old or younger.
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https://www.soccerwire.com/news/pro...-transfer-of-chris-richards-to-bayern-munich/


https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/who...ck-prospect-who-has/ombmqco8e5pd1esbxol2jwrt7

At least FC Dallas is developing top notch players. Between Richards and McKinnie the top Bundesliga clubs are loving their young American players.
 
LASTMAN14 said:
There isn’t anything wrong with learning from them as they have created a means to an end that has been successful. And, more importantly continues to be. Then from there create a platform that meets our needs here. I’ve seen the curriculum here and it’s just a standard. Which is fine, but it does not provide specifics to get there. It’s like solving a math problem without showing your work. In those steps of solving that equation are growth patterns we need.
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Then it seems we may agree, as the primary issue is the coaching and curriculum. US Soccer is going the opposite way in creating a structure that remains hollow at its core.

I also agree we need to learning from them, but we also need to learn from other successful sports and coaches in this country, if we want soccer to continue increasing in popularity and attracting the best athletes.
 
Possession for possession sake means nothing. Spain didn't push anything at the USA. Never attacked in the final 18. 4 shots Spain, 9 USA. Watching the game, it seemed close in possession (maybe 55-45 Spain to USA) while the announcers kept saying Spain had the ball all the time. FYI final possession stats were 52% spain, 48% USA. Announcing was way off. Really looked like the US was shaking off the cobwebs and looking like they hadn't been playing any matches the last couple months. Morgan has looked bad last two games, Lavelle and Horan sloppy, Heath ball hogging and turning it over. Davidson has looked really good last two games. She is going to be a great player.
 
Finally watched the France game. The problem I see is too many of the same type of player on the field. Morgan, Press, Dunn, Pugh, Fox, Sonnett, and Sauerbraun -- all speed and no skill. Pugh is a 9, Dunn a 9, Morgan a 9, Press a 9. None of those players can make an accurate pass. Once Davidson came in (she can pass), there was a bit more connecting on the left side. Part of it is circumstance I guess bc Lavelle, Rapinoe and Heath were on the bench, but I'm still not convinced that those players even have the skill that France plays with. Horan looked ok at times, but she too struggled to connect a pass. I think Mewis better. I agree with earlier post that Brian just hasn't been the same since her injury -- looks a step slow and her touch is off. Lloyd has hung on too long and shoulda made room for a younger player. And I really don't get all the hype re Pugh? She's all speed. No 1v1 game. Can't connect a pass. And she's small so not gonna get on any headers. Yes, she scored, but the focus/effort by France isn't the same at 3-0 in stoppage time.

This is what you get when you pick the fast players and think that you can train the skill into them over time. Doesn't work.
 
El Clasico said:
Agree, agree, agree...
I have said as much myself with the same pushback and here is what I have noticed about what the pushback has in common. They have no true understanding of the game. For most, their first experience with the game is when their own child began playing rec. For some, their kids suck but they know it all, for others, their kids are the best on the team so they MUST know it all and the lessors (parents) on the team listen to them. What they don't understand is the guy they are listening to whose kid is good is good, usually, through athleticism, not soccer IQ. When I say, we are falling behind, I don't mean that our women's team will lose in the first round of WWC (I actually expect them to win this year), what I am saying is that if we don't change, within 10 years, our women's team will be just like our men's team. Good but not great. I think it was Spain's coach that said it best when he said that we have millions of girls playing soccer in this country and only 42,000 (of all age groups) girls registered to play in Spain. Love when he said that we are in the same race and Spain is behind USA but Spain is running faster. Those countries you mention already know that they are making big leaps in their development and will soon pass us. That is why they now play with so much confidence against us. We have already lost the "Mike Tyson" advantage.
Click to expand...

I'm so glad someone finally has a "true understanding of the game".

You missed one type of parent. He's the one who played soccer growing up because other sports were out of reach due to his lack of strength and stature. In HS he was jealous of the more athletic basketball and football players who got all the attention, and now he's jealous of their more athletic children who overshadow his own daughter, and whom he claims lack his daughter's tremendous soccer IQ. He also regularly uses phrases like "pitch" and "the beautiful game", and occasionally even refers to soccer as "football" when he's not around the alpha dads who would make fun of him.

This parent is also nothing more than a front runner who deluded himself into thinking that he loved the Spanish MNT at its peak not because they were the best team in the world, but instead because they played with a "true understanding of the game". In fact, he's been referring to "tiki taka" as if it were a religion ever since 2010, rather than just one of many ways to win a soccer game depending on your personnel. He also fails to understand that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line - even when he sees Christen Press teach that valuable lesson to the entire Spanish WNT. His brain will explode if you tell him Leicester won the Premier League with the least possession in the entire league, that the two teams with the highest percentage of possession in the last WC didn't make it out of the group stage, and that the last WC winner had less than 50% possession.

I think I understand why USSF is so hostile to HS soccer. It has nothing to do with maximizing player development. Rather, all these male soccer people were so emasculated and humiliated in HS trying to be athletes that they're trying to keep the next generation from suffering the same fate. It's ok, guys, people don't look at soccer like it's badminton anymore.
 
End of the Line said:
I'm so glad someone finally has a "true understanding of the game".

You missed one type of parent. He's the one who played soccer growing up because other sports were out of reach due to his lack of strength and stature. In HS he was jealous of the more athletic basketball and football players who got all the attention, and now he's jealous of their more athletic children who overshadow his own daughter, and whom he claims lack his daughter's tremendous soccer IQ. He also regularly uses phrases like "pitch" and "the beautiful game", and occasionally even refers to soccer as "football" when he's not around the alpha dads who would make fun of him.

This parent is also nothing more than a front runner who deluded himself into thinking that he loved the Spanish MNT at its peak not because they were the best team in the world, but instead because they played with a "true understanding of the game". In fact, he's been referring to "tiki taka" as if it were a religion ever since 2010, rather than just one of many ways to win a soccer game depending on your personnel. He also fails to understand that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line - even when he sees Christen Press teach that valuable lesson to the entire Spanish WNT. His brain will explode if you tell him Leicester won the Premier League with the least possession in the entire league, that the two teams with the highest percentage of possession in the last WC didn't make it out of the group stage, and that the last WC winner had less than 50% possession.

I think I understand why USSF is so hostile to HS soccer. It has nothing to do with maximizing player development. Rather, all these male soccer people were so emasculated and humiliated in HS trying to be athletes that they're trying to keep the next generation from suffering the same fate. It's ok, guys, people don't look at soccer like it's badminton anymore.
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We don't agree on much, but I do agree with your 2nd paragraph. All the high school jibberish, I don't understand. Where I grew up, there is no such thing as high school sports. However, I have four kids here, three went through it and one still in it and I still don't understand your point. Is it suppose to be an insult to me or your experience in high school?
 
End of the Line said:
I'm so glad someone finally has a "true understanding of the game".

You missed one type of parent. He's the one who played soccer growing up because other sports were out of reach due to his lack of strength and stature. In HS he was jealous of the more athletic basketball and football players who got all the attention, and now he's jealous of their more athletic children who overshadow his own daughter, and whom he claims lack his daughter's tremendous soccer IQ. He also regularly uses phrases like "pitch" and "the beautiful game", and occasionally even refers to soccer as "football" when he's not around the alpha dads who would make fun of him.

This parent is also nothing more than a front runner who deluded himself into thinking that he loved the Spanish MNT at its peak not because they were the best team in the world, but instead because they played with a "true understanding of the game". In fact, he's been referring to "tiki taka" as if it were a religion ever since 2010, rather than just one of many ways to win a soccer game depending on your personnel. He also fails to understand that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line - even when he sees Christen Press teach that valuable lesson to the entire Spanish WNT. His brain will explode if you tell him Leicester won the Premier League with the least possession in the entire league, that the two teams with the highest percentage of possession in the last WC didn't make it out of the group stage, and that the last WC winner had less than 50% possession.

I think I understand why USSF is so hostile to HS soccer. It has nothing to do with maximizing player development. Rather, all these male soccer people were so emasculated and humiliated in HS trying to be athletes that they're trying to keep the next generation from suffering the same fate. It's ok, guys, people don't look at soccer like it's badminton anymore.
Click to expand...
EOL in your defense of direct style of play you make the brilliant observation that "the shortest distance between two points is a straight line"...I thought to myself, whoa you have some real genius type insight into soccer...however, despite your exceptional intellectual mastery of geometry and its application to soccer, most teams in the world cup with low possession lose though not as badly as in the past...

skysports-graphic-data-world-cup_4351874.jpg


You also cited one example of the success of direct style in the Premier League to make a gross generalization...but the data totally destroy your argument. On average, teams with low possession do poorly but less so than in the past...

skysports-premier-league-possession_4351871.jpg
 
soccerobserver said:
EOL in your defense of direct style of play you make the brilliant observation that "the shortest distance between two points is a straight line"...I thought to myself, whoa you have some real genius type insight into soccer...however, despite your exceptional intellectual mastery of geometry and its application to soccer, most teams in the world cup with low possession lose though not as badly as in the past...

skysports-graphic-data-world-cup_4351874.jpg


You also cited one example of the success of direct style in the Premier League to make a gross generalization...but the data totally destroy your argument. On average, teams with low possession do poorly but less so than in the past...

skysports-premier-league-possession_4351871.jpg
Click to expand...

How do you define "possession"? When the ball is out of play and the clock is running, which team gets credit for the possession?
 
soccerobserver said:
EOL in your defense of direct style of play you make the brilliant observation that "the shortest distance between two points is a straight line"...I thought to myself, whoa you have some real genius type insight into soccer...however, despite your exceptional intellectual mastery of geometry and its application to soccer, most teams in the world cup with low possession lose though not as badly as in the past...

skysports-graphic-data-world-cup_4351874.jpg


You also cited one example of the success of direct style in the Premier League to make a gross generalization...but the data totally destroy your argument. On average, teams with low possession do poorly but less so than in the past...

skysports-premier-league-possession_4351871.jpg
Click to expand...

Next time you should disclose that you stole these charts from an article about the declining importance of possession. More importantly, let me explain something to you about stats since you're in over your head. All you have done is an admirable job identifying how an average team will probably fare against another average team on a perfectly average day. But if you're trying to figure out how to be a great soccer team that can beat other great soccer teams, you should read the article, because building a team to beat 51% of teams isn't what we're talking about, and the real data "totally destroys your argument". Notably, the 3 teams in the last WC with the most possession flamed out and #4 was lucky to make it even to the final 8. Seriously, dude, France had 39% possession against Croatia in last year's final and it wasn't exactly a close game. Russia beat your Spanish amigos with only 21% possession. Shoot, in the most lob-sided WC game ever played, Brazil had 51% possession but lost to Germany 7-1 in 2014. It's like you still think the best way to win in the NBA is to bang around in the paint. Wilt Chamberlain is dead and Iniesta may as well be.

But like most soccer people, you're also ignoring that the men's game is not the same as the women'. The truth is the women's side is slower despite playing on the same size field, which means that differences in athleticism will always play a more important role than on the men's side, and technical ability relatively less. In other words, the Spanish women's team playing tiki taka is cute but even less likely to be effective than it is even now on the men's side, which is not very much. Maybe the Spanish WNT will some day find great athletes instead of the middling group of circus jugglers who currently constitute their squad but, given their historical lack of success in women's track, I'm thinking Spain is already pretty close to its ceiling right now. (NOTE - this is where you get angry because you can't handle hyperbole and point out Spain's U17s beat down on the US U17s so I can explain yet again why that doesn't mean anything).
 
El Clasico said:
We don't agree on much, but I do agree with your 2nd paragraph. All the high school jibberish, I don't understand. Where I grew up, there is no such thing as high school sports. However, I have four kids here, three went through it and one still in it and I still don't understand your point. Is it suppose to be an insult to me or your experience in high school?
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Of course I was trying to insult you. You make a fun target when you mock people who claim they know everything because you know everything. If you'd like me to make a caricature out of the "I have superior knowledge because I'm a foreigner" soccer dad instead, I'm happy to oblige since I have plenty of experience with them too. I do worry about the direction that will go, however, since it will inevitably draw @Sheriff Joe's attention and nobody wants that.
 
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