What would you do?
- Thread starter Desert619
- Start date
If it's a fit in terms of skill level, team personality, location, etc., and if your daughter is getting better and is happy with the team, I'd let it ride. Your DD is only 10, so odds are she'll have another club coach (or two) plus a high school coach (or two) before she's done anyway (e.g. coach leaves, club merges, recruited to a new team, etc.).
As my kids got to age 12-13, I let them get more and more involved in decisions like this. Our process went kind of like this: (1) we (the parents) would decide how far we were willing to drive, and how much we were willing to pay; (2) the kids would test out and guest with the teams within our geographic and financial range to get a feel for the options (if we didn't know the team already); (3) we'd all discuss the pros and cons, focusing on whether their skill level was a good fit for the team, and whether they would have fun playing on the team; and (4) the kids would then make the final call. Ultimately, if they're not having fun -- particularly as they get to high school age -- they're not going to keep playing, so if you have a rooting interest in keeping them playing, that means a major priority will be ensuring they're having fun (and the best way to do this is to ask them and listen to the answer).
For us, one current coach is a yeller, but the kid on his team really likes the team and is having fun and says the yelling doesn't bother her -- when she tells me she's no longer having fun, then we'll reconsider.
As my kids got to age 12-13, I let them get more and more involved in decisions like this. Our process went kind of like this: (1) we (the parents) would decide how far we were willing to drive, and how much we were willing to pay; (2) the kids would test out and guest with the teams within our geographic and financial range to get a feel for the options (if we didn't know the team already); (3) we'd all discuss the pros and cons, focusing on whether their skill level was a good fit for the team, and whether they would have fun playing on the team; and (4) the kids would then make the final call. Ultimately, if they're not having fun -- particularly as they get to high school age -- they're not going to keep playing, so if you have a rooting interest in keeping them playing, that means a major priority will be ensuring they're having fun (and the best way to do this is to ask them and listen to the answer).
For us, one current coach is a yeller, but the kid on his team really likes the team and is having fun and says the yelling doesn't bother her -- when she tells me she's no longer having fun, then we'll reconsider.
Dr. Richard Hurtz
SILVER
Pass pass pass isn’t such a bad thing. Tiki Taka and doing Rondos and she can learn a lot. Stick it out for the season. When you watch La Liga or EPL dribbling is only done maybe 1 v 1 striker and defender or when the player is jammed in and there’s no way out. Passing and building out of the back is good. If the coach is working on thru balls and having player making those run in behind the defenses line then your daughters team could get interesting. Stick out I say.
Surfref
PREMIER
There are definitely higher and lower levels of play for B/G10 teams. I have refereed B/G10 games that moved the ball better then a lot of B/G13 teams.
The last 5-6 months of practice seems to be non-stop rondos, from 4 person stationary to 12 person movement. A bit more boring to watch during practice, but really has made a huge difference during our last tournament and our first league game. Like night and day watching the team play compared to last year. I'd stay with the new team, plus continue individual training if she likes it.
Primetime
SILVER ELITE
IMHO A topic parents often undervalue when evaluating to move teams is stability. Stability gets mistaken with complacency or comfortability which can be viewed as a bad thing. Most parents strive for a stable home and school life but when it comes to soccer or sports they tend to throw that value out the window. When it comes to soccer and choosing clubs or teams my advice is choose a club or program to call home. Not necessarily a team or coach but a program that offers growth and stability with in the club. Coaches and teams/players will come and go but if your in a good program there should be opportunity in both directions. Not just the next best team to move too but maybe the opportunity to be an impact player on what some might view to be a lesser team. At 8- 13 years old the quality of the team should be completely irrelevant. Find a club that has a collective group of coaches in and around your kids age that you wouldn't mind having your kid play for any of them. Find a club that has proven pathways and proven track record of player development. While creativity should be promoted your not gonna find it encouraged as much on a "high level" team that's trying to win games. They're gonna promote the right play to win the game and get "results". If your really looking for your kid to have those opportunities to take players on at will and make her moves she's working on she'll need to be confident and confidence is hard to come by if being pushed to the highest level possible. I see it a lot in my own players. I have girls that play up and when they guest play for our younger teams their age group the confidence and willingness to make moves and take charge a little more is much more than it is on our normal team where things are a little tougher.
The big risk parents take in moving kids to another team or club is the one your facing. What if it's actually not better? So now what ? Now your looking to move again and if that doesn't pan out either you'll be looking for a 3rd or 4th team in as many years. Imagine changing your kids school that much and expecting success. Its a tall order.
The big risk parents take in moving kids to another team or club is the one your facing. What if it's actually not better? So now what ? Now your looking to move again and if that doesn't pan out either you'll be looking for a 3rd or 4th team in as many years. Imagine changing your kids school that much and expecting success. Its a tall order.
Eagle33
PREMIER
Do you happen to know the name of this wonderful club?
I think that this while logical on it’s merit, oversimplifies the process as well as the value of stability. From your writings it sounds like you are perhaps a coach or someone well informed of the game. Most don’t have such credentials to make an informed decision the first time out. The average parent of a youth soccer player doesn't necessarily have the knowledge base described above to properly assess or evaluate a program when they first enter club level. In my case proximity, cost, and the temperament of the coach were the factors that led us to our first club. I didn’t possess the ability to determine if the club had a "proven pathway and track record of player development". I could see wins, losses, and the energy of the coach. My DD did get tons of playing time and had a great time with the team. She wanted more. Privates, futsal, guesting ensued and the understanding of “player development” grew within all of us. It continues to evolve as she does. Our first club was a wonderful experience and facilitated her love of the game, it did not however contribute much to her understanding of the game. She played up and guested with much older teams of the club, but with the same undisciplined tactical methodology. This was helping her speed and physicality, but she was not growing into the game. When she would guest outside of the club the tactical deficiencies were readily apparent and she began to desire the tactics and skills that were being developed by others. Together we were now able to exercise the vetting that you describe above and selected a new club that has the attributes that can help her achieve the level of play she desires.
When we first entered the club scene, we knew very little and I suppose we still have lots to learn. Both she and I are happy that we made what was an emotional move to leave her first team and find one that provided her with what we didn’t even know she needed. Stability wasn’t as important as finding a better learning environment. Stability sounds nice and I suppose it was, but it doesn’t outweigh the betterment of environment and teaching. As to the analogy of changing schools, if I felt that my child was receiving a substandard education and a good one was available to me, you bet I would upset the apple cart and move. Stability while a good thing would not be a priority over a successful education.
outside!
DA
Maybe we have been fortunate, but every time our players have changed teams it has been a positive move. In my opinion, the coach and the players are much more important than the club since more than 90% of the time is spent with the team. DD changed teams and clubs 3 times (and had 7 coaches) before heading off to play in college. Each team and coach helped her development. My son has changed teams 5 times now, clubs 4 times (back to the original club) and is now with a great coach and team. In our experience, a good trainer for private lessons is just as important as the coach and team. To the OP, while it is important to gain confidence in dribbling, do not let it take precedence over learning to see the field and make a good pass. Too many kids that start off as great dribblers mature into ball hogs that cannot connect a decent pass, which just encourages them to keep the ball until they are dispossessed.
Mystery Train
GOLD
This line has Director of Coaching-speak written all over it. Not trying to yank your chain here. I am genuinely curious about that statement.
Can you define what a track record of player development would look like? I've had lots of experience with clubs that tout such things. They generally post their college commits every year on their website, and keep a running tally of all the great players who have gone on to play college over the years. Funny thing is, that when you dig deeper on each individual player, almost all of them played significant years of their early youth career for different clubs. It's more rare to find a college player who has done their entire club career with just one club. And the other question is the chicken-or-egg argument. If naturally gifted and driven athletes flock together at the same club, is it the club or the players that are creating the "track record?"
"Pathways" and "development" to me are myths. I would love to be wrong about that, but I haven't seen any club that can prove they provide these services. What I have seen is that clubs can provide coaching. Sometimes the coaching is very good and sometimes the coaching is very bad, and very often just ok. And I don't see that any club has a monopoly on either bad or good or just ok coaches. I do know clubs who, from the very top down, try their best to collect good coaches and encourage a certain brand of soccer. But even at those places, they will poach a top player from another club in a heart beat and make no apologies for bragging about their on-field results later.
You make a case for "stability" and argue that parents are the ones disrupting the developmental process by moving clubs. Yet, in the same breath, you say "coaches and players come and go" and it's the "program" that's important to call home. That's DOC speak for, "We're going to shuffle our coaches every year, fire people and hire new ones, so don't pack up your wallet and leave when we fire the one coach you liked, because it's all about the PROGRAM/PATHWAY." In my experience, the smaller clubs generally have a few strong coaches that start with a group of kids usually around U12-13, and coach them year after year until they age out. At the big clubs, the coaching carousel is non-stop. Every year, it's a different coach and some of these guys must have a different colored tracksuit for every day of the week, they've been re-cycled through so many clubs. That's why, my default advice to every parent on this forum is always: Find a good coach first and foremost, and league/level is secondary. But when making these decisions, the club means absolute zero in the equation.
futboldad1
PREMIER
This, a million times. Don't fall for the "this club..." line. Clubs nearly all have good and bad teams, good and bad coaches, and a whole bunch in the middle.
futboldad1
PREMIER
Wonderful post. So good I wanted to quote it in case anyone missed it!
El Clasico
GOLD
I agree!! With 3 already in college and one more a couple of years out, I still have no f'ing idea what that line of bullsh*t means. It must be in the Club Soccer marketing manual because I see it used a lot. I guess if you are new to the racket and don't know better, it would seem to make sense...which is why it is so commonly said to parents of the youngers.
Messi>CR7
GOLD
This is spot on. To the OP, the following paragraph is stated in La Masia's (FC Barcelona's academy) website:
"Possession of the ball is a great force for the blaugrana teams and passing it around is the greatest tribute one can pay to the game of football."
I would say that if your DD interprets the coach's yelling as pressure to play her best and compete for playing time, then she can absolutely develop from that situation. She will undoubtedly run into coaches in her career that can be harsh and even nasty, so if this helps her grow a thicker skin, that can help as well. However, if the effect is that she is losing confidence and playing with fear - ie: if I make a mistake, I will get in trouble/get subbed/get demeaned, etc, then I would say to get away from that environment. Players need to learn how to read the game and feel empowered to express themselves on the field. This will lead to mistakes sometimes, but it will also lead to them seeing that the things they practice can work in game situations. If all we do is train our players to play scared and play "not to lose" instead of playing with confidence and creativity, then we have a problem. Just my 2 cents...
Primetime
SILVER ELITE
Part of my point is similar to your last statements. 100% agree a coach is a priority but with so much movement on their side too what happens when you go to a club for a coach and he/she leaves after a year ? Right or wrong it happens for a million different reasons. That's why I said look around within the club at what other options they have at your kids age. You might go there for that coach but if they have 3-4 other reallly good coaches at that age you wouldn't mind playing for then that to me would be a really good option. I'd much rather change teams within a club than change clubs all together. Especially because if clubs are doing a god job then their teams and age groups should be working together to begin with so there's some familiarity should that unfortunate situation occur.
Primetime
SILVER ELITE
There's
There's plenty. Not one is right for all, never is. Depends on all the factors each parent/player has to evaluate when choosing where to play. Too many different factors for everyone so it's not a one size fits all.
younothat
PREMIER
What is a club in the united states anyway? A street address? Hey I live on 1st street or I play for the 1st street club. Really just a fictitious name to do business (DBA). The dba can actually be in a different name vs the actually club name as we seen with the with the tax filings.
So what does a "club" in the US mean? Right now, it doesn't mean much. There should be a culture formed around being a club member. But that's not the case here, with the affiliate explosion that's has just been getting farther away from a consistent culture.
In other countries being a club member means so much more; they own facilities, have club hosted activities, parties, gyms, they have partnerships and integration with real schools, they often times have multiple sports programs, they are connected to the neighborhoods, etc. and members have voting rights on what they want out of the club. They teach a consistent methodology, style of play, have a clear "pathway" to promote or be let go.
Being part of a club should really means something, right?
For example if you wanted to play some pick up games …the club has some open field access available for members who can play whenever.
How about discounted private math tutoring? the club could make that available to all member.
How about a futsal program or quick access to sports medicine. nutrition, or the like rather than hey just do this or pay this other person or separate corporation if you're interested, so everyone is doing there own thing in different directions.
Wait but my club does these "friday night" skills session. where a couple of coaches heard a bunch of people together do run drills? Beyond most 10 yr old most are bored to death with this kind of stuff or don't attend.
Being part of a club should really mean something! Right now not sure means much besides your street address or the jersey worn.
Primetime
SILVER ELITE
Couple things HELP define those topics. First Does the club even have higher level teams or programs ? I.e. DA, ECNL, EGSL, CRL, EPL, Discovery, Premier, etc. If the Clubs highest level team at your kids age is Silver, Silver Elite
Or Flight 2 then obviously there's very little room for growth or a vey short pathway for them to travel going forward should they outgrow the other players on the team. Second, if they do indeed have those pathways to higher levels is there a history of players moving up the ranks within the club ? Example Can you see players that started perhaps on a flight 2 team in the club now are on the ECNL team. That would suggest player development. Is the club hosting internal player ID camps and practices or as someone mentioned are they just recruiting top players from outside? Obviously there's gonna be a percentage of both but to what extent. What's the opportunity for your player ? Is there an attainable goal or higher level team within their reach?. How did the higher level teams get there ? Were they built mostly within the club or a core of a team that's moved up together ? That would be a proven track record. Every club sells the Bull$#it of its top achievements which is for the very small select few. But the reality is and should be in a similar direction just on a smaller scale. Part of it is club size. Right or wrong it's what's happened to the landscape. when going to a club that might only have 1 team at an age group the opportunities for kids on that team are gonna be very limited. In both directions. Should that 1 team have a great coach and stay together and grow to achieve alot there will absolutely be players along the way that aren't capable of keeping up. Where do they go ? Opportunities for players means both ways. Not just up. And vice verse for the players that may out grow the team. Someone mentioned clubs that post about all the college commits. Yes there are clubs that place a lot of kids in college, that would also help define a proven track record or pathway. Now they could be right in that many kids may not have started there but at the end of the day they obviously ended up there, very likely for that specific reason of helping get into college. So I would argue that while yes they may not have been there all along (which may very well be impossible these days anyways, lol) players who are there earlier on share the same opportunities.
Obviously everything depends on goals and aspirations for every player and they're all different. Some kids goals are to make the varsity team at the local high school in which case the smaller community programs might serve great as that tool. And obviously I'm talking about slightly older 11v11 age groups. If we're talking about 7-10 year olds then relax. sit back and enjoy the fun years while they last. Keep em where they're at as long as it's a fun,safe and healthy Environment. If they need to improve get em a little training on the side. #imoutofhotair
Eagle33
PREMIER
You lost me at: "if they do indeed have those pathways to higher levels..." and I felt into sleep, sorry. What was this all about?