Blues Cup

Got nothing to lose. Except for developing what is likely a talented kid. If the goal is winning tournaments at 11 years old- then they are doing it right.
If the goal is to take a player who has a rocket for a foot and turn her into a “soccer player” then this methodology leaves a lot to be desired.
Look- I’m all about winning. Which Blues does a lot of. Across the age groups. If I had players that fit their style, we’d be lined up at their tryout.
But if I’m a parent who knows a thing or 2 about soccer- a play like this should cause concern.
What happens next year when this group of thunder footed 11 year olds is on a full sized field?
It’s easy to accuse a team of playing kickball if they win a game by a lucky thru ball or a boot over the top to score a goal. Even if the other 59 minutes of the game included a lot of great passes.
Letting it rip on a small field that has been designed to teach players how to control a ball in tight spaces - Well, that’s different.
My 04 DD played a team recently in a F2 tournament final that was stacked with athletes and big feet. (Her team will be f2 this fall. Team they lost to will be f1. Another story for another time). They scored more than we did. I heard the coach instruct his players to “never play the ball backwards.” That’s their style and they are pretty good at it. It was no more than 2 touches and fire it forward. It worked against us. But when we play them again (probably in state cup since we are in different flights in fall), I expect a much closer game. But the parents were happy with the “big kicks” and 1 man breakaways.
I don’t know anyone on this Blues team. Maybe they practice possession and combination play all practice long and spend a few minutes working on long ball play. Or this player has been working on her striking and the coach saw it as a time to let her hard work show off a little.
But in 10 years if the USWNT is being outclassed by England, France, Brazil, Argentina, Trinidad/Tobago, Mexico and Jamaica- Then we should look back at this thread for some evidence as to why.
 
timbuck said:
Got nothing to lose. Except for developing what is likely a talented kid. If the goal is winning tournaments at 11 years old- then they are doing it right.
If the goal is to take a player who has a rocket for a foot and turn her into a “soccer player” then this methodology leaves a lot to be desired.
Look- I’m all about winning. Which Blues does a lot of. Across the age groups. If I had players that fit their style, we’d be lined up at their tryout.
But if I’m a parent who knows a thing or 2 about soccer- a play like this should cause concern.
What happens next year when this group of thunder footed 11 year olds is on a full sized field?
It’s easy to accuse a team of playing kickball if they win a game by a lucky thru ball or a boot over the top to score a goal. Even if the other 59 minutes of the game included a lot of great passes.
Letting it rip on a small field that has been designed to teach players how to control a ball in tight spaces - Well, that’s different.
My 04 DD played a team recently in a F2 tournament final that was stacked with athletes and big feet. (Her team will be f2 this fall. Team they lost to will be f1. Another story for another time). They scored more than we did. I heard the coach instruct his players to “never play the ball backwards.” That’s their style and they are pretty good at it. It was no more than 2 touches and fire it forward. It worked against us. But when we play them again (probably in state cup since we are in different flights in fall), I expect a much closer game. But the parents were happy with the “big kicks” and 1 man breakaways.
I don’t know anyone on this Blues team. Maybe they practice possession and combination play all practice long and spend a few minutes working on long ball play. Or this player has been working on her striking and the coach saw it as a time to let her hard work show off a little.
But in 10 years if the USWNT is being outclassed by England, France, Brazil, Argentina, Trinidad/Tobago, Mexico and Jamaica- Then we should look back at this thread for some evidence as to why.
Click to expand...
Tim, this is a very honest response and I really appreciate it. As far as their practices go, I can only offer what I've seen personally. I've seen their training when under Mulligan who IMHO runs a pretty good practice with lots of combinations, overlapping runs, and give and go. Having said that, I've also seen other Blues coaches who just let young teams scrimmage and beat each other up all day.

I know I personally would not have enjoyed a goal on kickoff (it's like scoring a goal on a keeper error and you're not sure whether to clap or not). But my dear wife would stand up and clap for sure :).
 
timbuck said:
Got nothing to lose. Except for developing what is likely a talented kid. If the goal is winning tournaments at 11 years old- then they are doing it right.
If the goal is to take a player who has a rocket for a foot and turn her into a “soccer player” then this methodology leaves a lot to be desired.
Look- I’m all about winning. Which Blues does a lot of. Across the age groups. If I had players that fit their style, we’d be lined up at their tryout.
But if I’m a parent who knows a thing or 2 about soccer- a play like this should cause concern.
What happens next year when this group of thunder footed 11 year olds is on a full sized field?
It’s easy to accuse a team of playing kickball if they win a game by a lucky thru ball or a boot over the top to score a goal. Even if the other 59 minutes of the game included a lot of great passes.
Letting it rip on a small field that has been designed to teach players how to control a ball in tight spaces - Well, that’s different.
My 04 DD played a team recently in a F2 tournament final that was stacked with athletes and big feet. (Her team will be f2 this fall. Team they lost to will be f1. Another story for another time). They scored more than we did. I heard the coach instruct his players to “never play the ball backwards.” That’s their style and they are pretty good at it. It was no more than 2 touches and fire it forward. It worked against us. But when we play them again (probably in state cup since we are in different flights in fall), I expect a much closer game. But the parents were happy with the “big kicks” and 1 man breakaways.
I don’t know anyone on this Blues team. Maybe they practice possession and combination play all practice long and spend a few minutes working on long ball play. Or this player has been working on her striking and the coach saw it as a time to let her hard work show off a little.
But in 10 years if the USWNT is being outclassed by England, France, Brazil, Argentina, Trinidad/Tobago, Mexico and Jamaica- Then we should look back at this thread for some evidence as to why.
Click to expand...




Tim all of your Concerns , Can easily be answered by looking at Bakers 01 & 02 teams 97% (01's committed to Pac 12/ D1 Colleges at 16 Yrs of age 3-4 on the actual National Team) Numerous others in and out of camps, Gatorade Player of the Year honors, Absolute Dominance through the years of U-11 thru U-18. I wish you were able to go back when these team started and read all the threads on the old forum of bitter dads saying exactly what you are now , but fact of the matter is its BS. You watch these so called possession teams and the minute they get pressed they wack the ball up field! All of the top teams play very similar style of soccer at this age, and On any given day you can be beat. Teams need to be able to play multiple styles of soccer in order to accomplish the goal of winning the game. I'm pretty sure previous posters already addressed the kick off goal multiple times. Is it luck sure, but you have to make your own luck sometimes.+
Every kid is not the same, some have it and some don't. My oldest is a 01 original BB player from U-10 at U-18 we've lost 2 players from the Original 15 No One has ever been cut, 1 to volleyball the other to Tennis.
My point is this 1 tourney doesn't define a team, Its the body of work over the years. Is this team going to be as good as the 01's or 02 Baker girls I have no idea but the blueprint is there whether you except it or not.
When My older was U12 Slammers, Eagles, Surf , West Coast, Legends, LA Galaxy All had great 01 teams but not 1 of those Marquee Clubs I mentioned stood the test of time. Everyone's path is different if my kid Loves playing for a coach and with her teammates and is successful at it then that's what we will do.

Overall Stats for Bakers 01/02 Teams
390 Wins
11 Losses
16 Draws
Total: 1888GF (3.7GF), 135GA (.32GA)

National Team Players
Stanford, UCLA, USC, Arizona, Cal, Washington, Washington State, Georgetown, Tennessee, Santa Clara, LMU, Pepperdine, UCI, these are where these young ladies from Baker other 2 teams are committed Not Bad!
 
OldSpeed said:
Tim all of your Concerns , Can easily be answered by looking at Bakers 01 & 02 teams 97% (01's committed to Pac 12/ D1 Colleges at 16 Yrs of age 3-4 on the actual National Team) Numerous others in and out of camps, Gatorade Player of the Year honors, Absolute Dominance through the years of U-11 thru U-18. I wish you were able to go back when these team started and read all the threads on the old forum of bitter dads saying exactly what you are now , but fact of the matter is its BS. You watch these so called possession teams and the minute they get pressed they wack the ball up field! All of the top teams play very similar style of soccer at this age, and On any given day you can be beat. Teams need to be able to play multiple styles of soccer in order to accomplish the goal of winning the game. I'm pretty sure previous posters already addressed the kick off goal multiple times. Is it luck sure, but you have to make your own luck sometimes.+
Every kid is not the same, some have it and some don't. My oldest is a 01 original BB player from U-10 at U-18 we've lost 2 players from the Original 15 No One has ever been cut, 1 to volleyball the other to Tennis.
My point is this 1 tourney doesn't define a team, Its the body of work over the years. Is this team going to be as good as the 01's or 02 Baker girls I have no idea but the blueprint is there whether you except it or not.
When My older was U12 Slammers, Eagles, Surf , West Coast, Legends, LA Galaxy All had great 01 teams but not 1 of those Marquee Clubs I mentioned stood the test of time. Everyone's path is different if my kid Loves playing for a coach and with her teammates and is successful at it then that's what we will do.

Overall Stats for Bakers 01/02 Teams
390 Wins
11 Losses
16 Draws
Total: 1888GF (3.7GF), 135GA (.32GA)

National Team Players
Stanford, UCLA, USC, Arizona, Cal, Washington, Washington State, Georgetown, Tennessee, Santa Clara, LMU, Pepperdine, UCI, these are where these young ladies from Baker other 2 teams are committed Not Bad!
Click to expand...


You make the point well. Winning still matters most to a lot of parents and coaches and it shouldn't. Don't get me wrong, it is very important but not the most important.

If you measure success on college placement and think getting into college is the pinnacle of the game, I hate to break it to you but it's not, it's second prize. There's a reason Japan, Spain, Holland, France have closed the gap and will soon bypass the USWNT and that's because our youth player's parents, provide overriding support for coaches who "Win" at youth levels.

Why do they win because they "recruit" the best athletes much of the time. You know that Baker power-point has been on repeat the last few weeks and I'd be willing to wager we won't see any new Technical Tanya's appearing on that team any time soon but there'll certainly be a Big Leg Bertha and a Fast Run Ruth ordering her Neon Puma's very soon.

You could write a blueprint for a top Blues/Legends/Slammers player on a piece paper and soccer intelligence/decision making would be about #34 on the list, after hair color and shoe size. I'm not saying they don't have some amazing players. They do in abundance but the process is strangling the life out of their potential.

Respect to the Baker boys on their product. There's no question it "Works" to place players at Kick-Ball College level but if we want our kids to be the best in a rapidly evolving Women's World soccer landscape, we have to move with the times and develop players who can actually solve problems on the field beyond being the biggest, strongest, fastest. Did you watch the US V Chile? Horrible. Twice.

Maybe when the US crashes out of the World Cup in the Quarter Finals next year in France, people might start to take note but I doubt if it little Suzie's still scoring from the half way line in U11 Blues Cup.
 
Sunil Illuminati said:
You make the point well. Winning still matters most to a lot of parents and coaches and it shouldn't. Don't get me wrong, it is very important but not the most important.

If you measure success on college placement and think getting into college is the pinnacle of the game, I hate to break it to you but it's not, it's second prize. There's a reason Japan, Spain, Holland, France have closed the gap and will soon bypass the USWNT and that's because our youth player's parents, provide overriding support for coaches who "Win" at youth levels.

Why do they win because they "recruit" the best athletes much of the time. You know that Baker power-point has been on repeat the last few weeks and I'd be willing to wager we won't see any new Technical Tanya's appearing on that team any time soon but there'll certainly be a Big Leg Bertha and a Fast Run Ruth ordering her Neon Puma's very soon.

You could write a blueprint for a top Blues/Legends/Slammers player on a piece paper and soccer intelligence/decision making would be about #34 on the list, after hair color and shoe size. I'm not saying they don't have some amazing players. They do in abundance but the process is strangling the life out of their potential.

Respect to the Baker boys on their product. There's no question it "Works" to place players at Kick-Ball College level but if we want our kids to be the best in a rapidly evolving Women's World soccer landscape, we have to move with the times and develop players who can actually solve problems on the field beyond being the biggest, strongest, fastest. Did you watch the US V Chile? Horrible. Twice.

Maybe when the US crashes out of the World Cup in the Quarter Finals next year in France, people might start to take note but I doubt if it little Suzie's still scoring from the half way line in U11 Blues Cup.
Click to expand...

Sun I 100 % get what you're saying, but 99% of girls playing Club soccer will not be playing for the US National team so I being realistic know and have known that my dd's aren't part of that 1% because we have seen these very special players 1st hand for years. Here are the facts there's no money in Womens Soccer period, so why would your point (like US Soccer) focus on selling this Dream of playing for the US on the National Team? I would be more happy to see my dd get her education at a top college and pass the bar and provide for herself than make $50k a year playing on the National team to be honest.

And as far as the "Baker Power Point" that's hilarious. When that 01 team was formed many people chimed in and said he picked the wrong girls and this thing was going to fall apart, but it didn't happen . They win because they play the best soccer as a team, No Starters, No MVP crap, No Coach hanging and drinking with certain parents for play time, no bickering among the girls when you give up a goal. They understand at a young age that they are Sisters they fight for eachother & that's what makes them Win chemistry and comradery. Baker isn't for everyone and I get that, there are so many talented coaches and girls in So Cal each parent needs to decide what's best for them.

The other countries have girls that basically give up their entire childhood and life for that Country/team. Like in many sports they don't go play club soccer then head off to National Camp they live with the teams and coaches. In every country you mentioned Soccer is the #1 sport. Its not that here in the US for the men or women. Maybe one day it will be but for now its about getting a great education at a good college and preparing for life & the real world after soccer.
 
Sunil Illuminati said:
You make the point well. Winning still matters most to a lot of parents and coaches and it shouldn't. Don't get me wrong, it is very important but not the most important.

If you measure success on college placement and think getting into college is the pinnacle of the game, I hate to break it to you but it's not, it's second prize. There's a reason Japan, Spain, Holland, France have closed the gap and will soon bypass the USWNT and that's because our youth player's parents, provide overriding support for coaches who "Win" at youth levels.

Why do they win because they "recruit" the best athletes much of the time. You know that Baker power-point has been on repeat the last few weeks and I'd be willing to wager we won't see any new Technical Tanya's appearing on that team any time soon but there'll certainly be a Big Leg Bertha and a Fast Run Ruth ordering her Neon Puma's very soon.

You could write a blueprint for a top Blues/Legends/Slammers player on a piece paper and soccer intelligence/decision making would be about #34 on the list, after hair color and shoe size. I'm not saying they don't have some amazing players. They do in abundance but the process is strangling the life out of their potential.

Respect to the Baker boys on their product. There's no question it "Works" to place players at Kick-Ball College level but if we want our kids to be the best in a rapidly evolving Women's World soccer landscape, we have to move with the times and develop players who can actually solve problems on the field beyond being the biggest, strongest, fastest. Did you watch the US V Chile? Horrible. Twice.

Maybe when the US crashes out of the World Cup in the Quarter Finals next year in France, people might start to take note but I doubt if it little Suzie's still scoring from the half way line in U11 Blues Cup.
Click to expand...

Sun I 100 % get what you're saying, but 99% of girls playing Club soccer will not be playing for the US National team so I being realistic know and have known that my dd's aren't part of that 1% because we have seen these very special players 1st hand for years. Here are the facts there's no money in Womens Soccer period, so why would your point (like US Soccer) focus on selling this Dream of playing for the US on the National Team? I would be more happy to see my dd get her education at a top college and pass the bar and provide for herself than make $50k a year playing on the National team to be honest.

And as far as the "Baker Power Point" that's hilarious. When that 01 team was formed many people chimed in and said he picked the wrong girls and this thing was going to fall apart, but it didn't happen . They win because they play the best soccer as a team, No Starters, No MVP crap, No Coach hanging and drinking with certain parents for play time, no bickering among the girls when you give up a goal. They understand at a young age that they are Sisters they fight for eachother & that's what makes them Win chemistry and comradery. Baker isn't for everyone and I get that, there are so many talented coaches and girls in So Cal each parent needs to decide what's best for them.

The other countries have girls that basically give up their entire childhood and life for that Country/team. Like in many sports they don't go play club soccer then head off to National Camp they live with the teams and coaches. In every country you mentioned Soccer is the #1 sport. Its not that here in the US for the men or women. Maybe one day it will be but for now its about getting a great education at a good college and preparing for life & the real world after soccer.
 
It all sort of comes down to: What do you like to look at? Are you ok with goals that are scored due to an opponent's mistake or do you want to see a goal based on something the team created? I estimate that 80% of the goals in Youth soccer are scored due to an opponent mistake. That combined with the fact that there are not a ton of team examples out there that play quality possession soccer* for people to see on a regular basis is the reason for being ok with opponent mistake goals. (*The best example of such a team I can think of was the 98 De Anza Force team, google them, I would have loved to see a match between this team and BB, if only they were the same age.)

The US isn't steeped in soccer culture where quality trumps winning at young ages. Most don't know what La Liga is let alone watch it. At the highest levels, no one is taking shots off the kickoff or even kicking it real far to put the opponent under immediate pressure so that they make a mistake. They don't do this because the quality is different, the opponent would just say "thank you for the ball, now we will keep it and try to create something." The difference being that they are capable of keeping the ball.

I would guess that if people are honest, they would say that they would rather win at 07 by scoring opponent mistake goals than lose while creating quality chances.
 
OldSpeed said:
Tim all of your Concerns , Can easily be answered by looking at Bakers 01 & 02 teams 97% (01's committed to Pac 12/ D1 Colleges at 16 Yrs of age 3-4 on the actual National Team) Numerous others in and out of camps, Gatorade Player of the Year honors, Absolute Dominance through the years of U-11 thru U-18. I wish you were able to go back when these team started and read all the threads on the old forum of bitter dads saying exactly what you are now , but fact of the matter is its BS. You watch these so called possession teams and the minute they get pressed they wack the ball up field! All of the top teams play very similar style of soccer at this age, and On any given day you can be beat. Teams need to be able to play multiple styles of soccer in order to accomplish the goal of winning the game. I'm pretty sure previous posters already addressed the kick off goal multiple times. Is it luck sure, but you have to make your own luck sometimes.+
Every kid is not the same, some have it and some don't. My oldest is a 01 original BB player from U-10 at U-18 we've lost 2 players from the Original 15 No One has ever been cut, 1 to volleyball the other to Tennis.
My point is this 1 tourney doesn't define a team, Its the body of work over the years. Is this team going to be as good as the 01's or 02 Baker girls I have no idea but the blueprint is there whether you except it or not.
When My older was U12 Slammers, Eagles, Surf , West Coast, Legends, LA Galaxy All had great 01 teams but not 1 of those Marquee Clubs I mentioned stood the test of time. Everyone's path is different if my kid Loves playing for a coach and with her teammates and is successful at it then that's what we will do.

Overall Stats for Bakers 01/02 Teams
390 Wins
11 Losses
16 Draws
Total: 1888GF (3.7GF), 135GA (.32GA)

National Team Players
Stanford, UCLA, USC, Arizona, Cal, Washington, Washington State, Georgetown, Tennessee, Santa Clara, LMU, Pepperdine, UCI, these are where these young ladies from Baker other 2 teams are committed Not Bad!
Click to expand...


In my opinion this is exactly whats wrong with US soccer at the US national level that trickles down to our professional, college, and youth club teams. Top US coaches rewarding "kickball style of play". I give it a couple of years before the US women's style of play will be where the US men's team's at if that. Especially with the European clubs & UEFA investing in their youth & women's programs the way they are. We don't have a chance. have you seen the games on the Women's side? wow! incredible! much more fun to watch too. I guess that's why there's no money on the Women's side here. Why would anyone pay to see players kicking the ball from the half way line attempting a goal.

I say bring in someone like Pep Guardiola to revamp US soccer at top levels and let that trickle all the way down to our youth. If you haven't seen what he did for Man city in the Premier league I suggest watching? That's something our melting pot in the US needs. Of coarse this is my opinion.

All or Nothing: Manchester City

 
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