2016-17 D1 Women's soccer thread!!!

Bernie Sanders said:
Soccer only.
UCLA gets the Lion's share of the top players.
GPA is Stanford's domain.
This is a soccer forum.
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I think Stanford gets first dibs, but several YNT players probably don't have the required minimum GPA to get pushed through admissions. Then commit to other elite soccer programs. Andy Sullivan, Tierna Davidson, Amack, Campbell, Dibiasi and Xiao aren't chopped liver.
 
offthecrossbar said:
I think Stanford gets first dibs, but several YNT players probably don't have the required minimum GPA to get pushed through admissions. Then commit to other elite soccer programs. Andy Sullivan, Tierna Davidson, Amack, Campbell, Dibiasi and Xiao aren't chopped liver.
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Not chopped liver at all. They are in the top 1%.
You actually made my point for me. Not all the best soccer players are also Stanford academic material.
 
offthecrossbar said:
Spurs actually have a Big 3; Aldredge, Parker and Leonard. As for the Lakers losing in 2004 and Shaq not offered the contract he wanted, the Lakers were 3peat champions from 2000-2002, before losingto the Pistons in Finals in 2003. If Shaq and Kobe could have co-existed who knows how many more championships they could have won together. So I wouldn't say Shaq and Kobe was a failed duo by any means.
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You're all about putting words in my mouth and then tearing down the straw man. Kobe and Shaq were a huge success...as long as they had complimentary players around them and before the chemistry went sour. You made my point for me. Kobe, Shaw, Karl Malone and Gary Payton were individually much better than anyone on that Pistons team. I'm still bitter, lol.

You keep trying to frame my argument like I'm saying talent isn't important. I'm saying that talent without chemistry and complimentary pieces will often lose to less talent that has those two elements. I don't think that is either controversial nor especially new.
 
Mystery Train said:
You're all about putting words in my mouth and then tearing down the straw man. Kobe and Shaq were a huge success...as long as they had complimentary players around them and before the chemistry went sour. You made my point for me. Kobe, Shaw, Karl Malone and Gary Payton were individually much better than anyone on that Pistons team. I'm still bitter, lol.

You keep trying to frame my argument like I'm saying talent isn't important. I'm saying that talent without chemistry and complimentary pieces will often lose to less talent that has those two elements. I don't think that is either controversial nor especially new.
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The Mailman and the Glove were past their prime when they got to the Lakers.
 
Mystery Train said:
You're all about putting words in my mouth and then tearing down the straw man. Kobe and Shaq were a huge success...as long as they had complimentary players around them and before the chemistry went sour. You made my point for me. Kobe, Shaw, Karl Malone and Gary Payton were individually much better than anyone on that Pistons team. I'm still bitter, lol.

You keep trying to frame my argument like I'm saying talent isn't important. I'm saying that talent without chemistry and complimentary pieces will often lose to less talent that has those two elements. I don't think that is either controversial nor especially new.
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Every team needs complimentary players. Unfortunately, the NFL, MLB and NBA try to prevent teams from building an all-star team (Golden State Is an exception, because Curry is under paid). That is why the leagues have salary caps, luxury taxes, and team caps. If not, the big market teams would be all-star teams.

I'm happy to read you agree a team needs talent. It's why programs such as Alabama Football and Kentucky Basketball are favored every year to win a National Championship. The coaches have their blue chip players believing in their winning philosophy.
 
offthecrossbar said:
The Mailman and the Glove were past their prime when they got to the Lakers.
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No doubt. But even so, the Lakers had 4 future HoF players, Kobe and Shaq in or near prime, plus Horace Grant and Byron Russel off the bench. The Pistons? Rip Hamilton, Ben Wallace, Tayshaun Prince, an old Rasheed Wallace, and Chauncey Billups, along with such blue chippers like Antonio McDyess and Mehmet Okur. On paper, even accounting for their age, the Lakers should have won in a cakewalk. Don't underestimate the importance of chemistry & ditch diggers.
 
Mystery Train said:
No doubt. But even so, the Lakers had 4 future HoF players, Kobe and Shaq in or near prime, plus Horace Grant and Byron Russel off the bench. The Pistons? Rip Hamilton, Ben Wallace, Tayshaun Prince, an old Rasheed Wallace, and Chauncey Billups, along with such blue chippers like Antonio McDyess and Mehmet Okur. On paper, even accounting for their age, the Lakers should have won in a cakewalk. Don't underestimate the importance of chemistry & ditch diggers.
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The Mailman was pushing 40 and the Glove was 35. They were match-up vs Chauncy age 27 and Rasheed Wallace was 29 and not old, but in his prime. Add Tashaun 24, Ben Wallace 29, Rip Hamilton 25/26 all in their 20s. The Lakers were old, Horace Grant was 38 and Rick Fox was 34 along with a weak Lakers bench. Sure on paper it was 4 future HOFamers, but only 2 were in their prime. The Lakers didn't have much else, besides Fisher at 29.

Which brings us back full circle, Detroit didn't beat 4 future hall of famers in their prime. They couldn't because the NBA's salary cap and luxury tax prevents teams forming all-star players playing together in their prime. If not, we would have a modern super NBA team built with Lebron, Carmelo, Wade and Chris Paul.
 
Mystery Train said:
No doubt. But even so, the Lakers had 4 future HoF players, Kobe and Shaq in or near prime, plus Horace Grant and Byron Russel off the bench. The Pistons? Rip Hamilton, Ben Wallace, Tayshaun Prince, an old Rasheed Wallace, and Chauncey Billups, along with such blue chippers like Antonio McDyess and Mehmet Okur. On paper, even accounting for their age, the Lakers should have won in a cakewalk. Don't underestimate the importance of chemistry & ditch diggers.
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Hey, ya'll remember how it all worked out for Jalen, Ray, Juwan, Jimmy, and Chris? They were phenomenal......so fun to watch. But no ditch diggers, and no rings.

If we're talking basketball, some of the best ditch diggers ever were Rambis, Bowen and Oakley. The ultimate ditch digger of my era was Rodman. If you come across some old Piston or Bulls footage you'll realize how great that guy was. Props to Phil and Chuck Daly for coaching that guy up to legend status.

My daughter's favorite player of all time is Puyol. That guy knew how to dig a ditch. There's a game where I remember he cut his forehead open. He had to come off the field to get it bandaged up. He's sitting on the bench fussing with it, and fiddling with it like an 8 year old. At the first opportunity he comes running back on the field, straight into another contested header. The bandage flies off and he just keeps going...... He made Barcelona better....
 
goldentoe said:
Hey, ya'll remember how it all worked out for Jalen, Ray, Juwan, Jimmy, and Chris? They were phenomenal......so fun to watch. But no ditch diggers, and no rings.

If we're talking basketball, some of the best ditch diggers ever were Rambis, Bowen and Oakley. The ultimate ditch digger of my era was Rodman. If you come across some old Piston or Bulls footage you'll realize how great that guy was. Props to Phil and Chuck Daly for coaching that guy up to legend status.

My daughter's favorite player of all time is Puyol. That guy knew how to dig a ditch. There's a game where I remember he cut his forehead open. He had to come off the field to get it bandaged up. He's sitting on the bench fussing with it, and fiddling with it like an 8 year old. At the first opportunity he comes running back on the field, straight into another contested header. The bandage flies off and he just keeps going...... He made Barcelona better....
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The Fab Five reached the finals as Freshmen and Sophomores. They lost to a DUKE team with Christian Laettner and Grant Hill. The following year they lost to UNC with 10 upperclassmen. Thanks for proving my point the more talent you the higher probability of winning.
 
offthecrossbar said:
the more talent you the higher probability of winning.
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Thanks Captain Obvious. Nobody has said talent doesn't matter. You just don't get the value of role players, and that's cool. You clearly don't want to hear it. But I did have to laugh at your comment about the NBA salary cap preventing all-star teams. Warriors and Heat and Cavs being pretty darn close. USA basketball had to totally rethink player selection when Coach K and Jerry Colangelo got involved to rescue the disaster that had become our national team. Those all stars got smoked by FAR lesser talent because they, like you, underestimated role players and chemistry. Coach K has said many times that it isn't enough to pick the 10-15 most talented guys, that you need pieces that fit, role players and glue guys.
 
Mystery Train said:
Thanks Captain Obvious. Nobody has said talent doesn't matter. You just don't get the value of role players, and that's cool. You clearly don't want to hear it. But I did have to laugh at your comment about the NBA salary cap preventing all-star teams. Warriors and Heat and Cavs being pretty darn close. USA basketball had to totally rethink player selection when Coach K and Jerry Colangelo got involved to rescue the disaster that had become our national team. Those all stars got smoked by FAR lesser talent because they, like you, underestimated role players and chemistry. Coach K has said many times that it isn't enough to pick the 10-15 most talented guys, that you need pieces that fit, role players and glue guys.
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I already addressed the Warriors and how they got Durant. Reread: if their wasn't a salary cap and luxury cap; Lebron, Melo, Paul and Wade would be playing together. Instead of Lebron and Irving.

Happy to read you agree with me again. The more talent you have with a winning coach and the players buying into the philosophy will you have a winning team. It's not like Coach K picked Kobe and Lebron and added 10 additional 12th man roster players into the fold. He picked ALL-STAR players and is no different than his Duke teams recruiting blue chippers every year.

I will take Kentucky in basketball every year and you can have Marquette and lets see who wins more.
 
A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.[1]
 
Crossbar, you may not agree with my point, but Coach K does:

(from an interview in 2012)- " I asked Coach K how he felt when Colangelo offered him the job. “I wanted to jump through the phone I was so excited,” he said. “Jerry and I started talking immediately about how to change the culture of this team. We weren’t going to simply be another ad-hoc collection of All-Stars. We needed role players that could subsume their superstar egos."
 
Mystery Train said:
Crossbar, you may not agree with my point, but Coach K does:

(from an interview in 2012)- " I asked Coach K how he felt when Colangelo offered him the job. “I wanted to jump through the phone I was so excited,” he said. “Jerry and I started talking immediately about how to change the culture of this team. We weren’t going to simply be another ad-hoc collection of All-Stars. We needed role players that could subsume their superstar egos."
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Exactly, All-Star players who buy into his team concept. If not mistaken, Kobe didn't play for team USA team until Coach K. He always wanted to play for him and never got to when he skipped college.
 
Mystery Train said:
A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.[1]
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Coach and player experience being equal. A more talented team will beat a lesser talented team more often than not. Unless, you are given a point spread...haha!
 
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