In all fairness to the OC Surf Coach, the age group only had one bracket with 5 teams. There were 10 tournaments this past weekend in Socal! What were his choices? At first I though he was sandbagging, but after looking at the facts, the watered down amount of tournaments is to blame as of why teams can't find equally competitive teams to play with. To me its hard to argue that a coach is sandbagging by going to the Pats Cup and the competition is not up to par.
22-0
- Thread starter timbuck
- Start date
younothat
PREMIER
These kind of scores don't do anybody good IMO.
Changing the tournament scene:
http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/poll-changing-the-tournament-scene.15676/
With so many tournaments getting bracket competition that's balanced has become increasing difficult.
Seeding, placement, etc don't really help that much when the comp is not strong overall; top flight ranked or seeded teams don't play each other to the playoffs even when they do later on the games normally are not the best quality.
With every team "having" to play tournaments they either play inter squads at their local tourny or venture outside and roll the dice and hope to get a fair shake or bracket.
Tournament teams used to mean something different and didn't start until a certain age; surf was like U11 or u12 I recall and you trained and prepared for a while before a coach would feel comfortable entering a tournament or not. Normally only the top team in a age group per club would entry in the top tier tournaments, the rest would play scrimmages or train until some competition came along that made sense like in a smaller tournament that had less comp.
9 goal mercy rule; in futsal no shots only passes is what the coach would have the boys do when they where younger.
Changing the tournament scene:
http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/poll-changing-the-tournament-scene.15676/
With so many tournaments getting bracket competition that's balanced has become increasing difficult.
Seeding, placement, etc don't really help that much when the comp is not strong overall; top flight ranked or seeded teams don't play each other to the playoffs even when they do later on the games normally are not the best quality.
With every team "having" to play tournaments they either play inter squads at their local tourny or venture outside and roll the dice and hope to get a fair shake or bracket.
Tournament teams used to mean something different and didn't start until a certain age; surf was like U11 or u12 I recall and you trained and prepared for a while before a coach would feel comfortable entering a tournament or not. Normally only the top team in a age group per club would entry in the top tier tournaments, the rest would play scrimmages or train until some competition came along that made sense like in a smaller tournament that had less comp.
9 goal mercy rule; in futsal no shots only passes is what the coach would have the boys do when they where younger.
Surfref
PREMIER
The military adult league I referee has a 5 goal mercy rule. With 15 minutes or less remaining in the game and one team is ahead by 5 goals or more then the game is over. There are teams that will purposely stop scoring with a 4 goal lead or allow the other team to score a goal, so they can continue to play a full length game. They just enjoy playing and don't like the mercy rule.
I could see this type of mercy rule at the U12 and below ages. Those younger ages seem to be where most of the blowout scores occur. A referees worst nightmare can be a blowout at the 15-18 age players. Players at those ages take a blowout personal and will often get frustrated and start targeting the winning team with hard tackles. As a referee my job becomes one of protecting the players even more than normal. Yellow cards usually do not work well to calm the losing players down and I have to resort to calling even minor fouls and slowing the game down. I really hate having to take that much control over the game, but player safety always comes first.
ilovethisgame
BRONZE
Just check out the CSL league scores at the younger ages. There are a few clubs that love to run up the scores. Unfortunately as they get older those same teams lack the discipline and knowledge of the game, because the guy in the track suit figured out how to coach as little as possible and win a lot.
Messi>CR7
GOLD
Don't forget to sweep the legs of the goalkeeper after scoring the 22nd goal.
Not_that_Serious
GOLD
As mentioned, and others have shown, you see this more in Tier 2 Brackets. This is because that team, usually good tier 1s, are placed into lower brackets so they have no chance beating "academy" teams. Its not on the team "abusive" team. Wouldnt be a good look for a Tier 1 team to beat one of their teams they are charging parents a boat load of $ for. So they let them beat up on their lower tier teams in order to avoid any splaining to parents. Big clubs usually dont have to explain anything to parents if the team they lose to only have "academy" or "super duper awesome" at the end of it
SoccerFan4Life
PREMIER
All parties are at fault.
Calsouth should have a rule and cap it at 8-0.
Winning coach should have stopped it.
Losing coach should have asked parents to forfeit at half time.
Calsouth should have a rule and cap it at 8-0.
Winning coach should have stopped it.
Losing coach should have asked parents to forfeit at half time.
I haven’t seen DA for 9 year olds yet.
fantasyfutbol
SILVER
Accountability. Parents don't expose your non competitive soccer player to competitive tournaments. The 22-0 losing team wasted the other team's time and hours spent practicing. That's just rude. The other team worked hard to play well and the no accountability parents show up with their little snowflakes and expect to be accommodated. AYSO is a fantastic organization that fits with the amount of effort you obviously put into the sport. Stop wasting real soccer players time.
Socal United
SILVER ELITE
We just came back from Gothia Cup. What I find interesting is it is viewed completely different there. When you blow someone out, the losing teams seem to be very congratulatory on your team being good and they just say they need to work harder to get to that level. I spoke to multiple coaches, they recognize that the gap is big on the younger age groups and it is going to happen. In our one blowout I had a couple opposing parents meet me in the middle to congratulate me on my team and how we played. They seem to have more of a suck it up mentality.
Sokrplayer75
SILVER ELITE
7 seven goal lad, they pass ostly on their half.
U7/U8, coach is really good about making sure girls dont run up the score. Most of the time they pass on their side of the field
Yep these girls are are 7/8 and they did it last year at 6/7 age group. Only seen one girl score (she had the opportunity) and coach took her out. He does it in a professional manager and the girls learn. the only ones yelling for their daughters to score is the parents because they had no idea they were capped, lol. Eventually the parents learned, lol! Girls are smarter than they appear..........
Slammerdad
SILVER
IT's hard to access blame on anyone because you just don't know until the game starts. I recently witnessed a 11-0 beatdown by a girls 03 team playing in a flight one bracket tournament. The coach rotated, subbed up front, tried the "11 touch rule" but stopped short of telling the girls not to score. Toward the end, it become a keepaway game in their half which was some of the worse soccer to watch ever. So which is worse? I'm not judging, just saying in the moment, hard to control
I would much rather be scored upon than played keepaway. Keepaway seems much more humiliating.
And again for the upteenth time, I put most of the blame on the losing coach. Call the game at some point or ask your players at halftime how they feel. Nobody is answering this question.
You can slow the game down in many ways, so you don't just run down and score every 90 seconds.
Just about every tournament I have ever seen has a forfeit one forfeit all rule. You walk out on one game you have to forfeit all of them.
Soccercritique
BRONZE
I don't think you can call the game...thats quitting and what does that teach the kids? At the same time, 22-0 is humiliating. Just stay as positive as you can and keep filling that oreo cookie with positive stuff in the middle (you know, correction, positive, correction). I would suggest that working on your possession game would be the best thing in this case, but most teams don't have a clue how to possess...
rainbow_unicorn
PREMIER
I would place some responsibility on the losing coach...but I would not want the coach to quit (sends wrong message to kids). Instead the losing coach can just pack in the defense into their own defensive third and just look for opportunities to counter-attack. It's hard to score when the entire defense is in their own box.
Sometimes the teams are so mismatched that it's very difficult to limit scoring. I reffed a game once (AYSO) where the stronger team -- after using a bunch of other strategies to keep the score down -- decided to keep all of their players in or near their own penalty area. Whenever one of them would win the ball, they would then dribble by themselves through the entire opposing team. Even going 1 on 11, they scored 5 times in a row.
sweeperkeeper
SILVER
As parents, I would think that we would want to avoid this imbalance at all costs. The idea that "this is competitive" is the worst idea as it does nothing to grow the sport to a broader base. This is the mentality that you often hear from wrestling, boxing and other sports that have gone to the waste side. The idea that goal differential matters after 5 is a terrible rule. I would much have teams go down to PKs or some other tie breaker rather than putting a 22-0 beating on a team. Also, since this team is in the wrong flight, this is driving the other teams to beat on them as well. "Hey Team X got 22, we need to get 23!"
We have been on both sides of these blowouts and no one is happy when it happens. The game turns into 90 minutes of messing around for the team that is winning and the losing team get frustrated. While the example given by OP was for young girls, this happened not just at that level. My concern is that there are teams that enjoy putting on this type of beating (and start showboating) where eventually the losing kids have enough and start fouling or going in hard. As surfref mentioned, once the kids get a bit older it will be harder to handle.
One of the main issues that was brought up is that is partially due to the landscape of how many tournaments we have. I think if there were fewer tournaments, then you would get teams more closely aligned to play together verses these blowouts or teams jumping into tournaments in the wrong flight (up or down) just because it is a free/low cost one. Not sure how to actually do this but something needs to be done.
We have been on both sides of these blowouts and no one is happy when it happens. The game turns into 90 minutes of messing around for the team that is winning and the losing team get frustrated. While the example given by OP was for young girls, this happened not just at that level. My concern is that there are teams that enjoy putting on this type of beating (and start showboating) where eventually the losing kids have enough and start fouling or going in hard. As surfref mentioned, once the kids get a bit older it will be harder to handle.
One of the main issues that was brought up is that is partially due to the landscape of how many tournaments we have. I think if there were fewer tournaments, then you would get teams more closely aligned to play together verses these blowouts or teams jumping into tournaments in the wrong flight (up or down) just because it is a free/low cost one. Not sure how to actually do this but something needs to be done.