Youth broken system

[coachsamy]

According to ESPN, its DA, some expensive travel ball or nothing. Interesting views, however I do think there is plenty of opportunities for the middle kid that they claim have no opportunity to play.

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=3569463

 

[younothat]

Youth Soccer participation is down 14% 600,000 fewer participants between 6-12
p2p not helpful

Taylor Twellman:
In between..from "elite travel soccer academies" to home town play (Ayso, Latin Leagues) is diminishing
If you're not good enough for "elite travel soccer" there is no place for you in the us system
Putting kids 9,10,11,12,13 into some serious soccer situations can be detrimental to them as human beings
N'Golg Kante' of France one of the best of the WC tournament was playing in the 9th Division when he started and worked his way up, in the US he would have been told he was not good enough and fallen to the waste side
If USSDA is on the top what's in between?
If you don't play to pay there are no other good options for parents which is a huge problem
Smaller level home town teams are having to combine because the kids are moving to development academies or quitting
Everything is so structured there is no creativity, you can't develop robots. Cultural questions; kids need to be playing with freedom all day but not with coaches, cones organized all the time.

Could nitpick some of what TT is says but he has some good points and hard to argue with the facts. P2P is helpful but only too a certain % of the players IMO and the rest (majority) would be better off in between

 

[timbuck]

With regard to soccer not being affordable/accessible to lower income families...
My kid played in Copa Del Mar this past weekend. Well run tournament. Great fields. Good competition.
But....$10 per day for parking. Wife drove separate so we were $20 on Saturday. $10 on Sunday. Made the final which was played on Monday. $40 for parking.
Tank of gas back and forth from OC 8 times.
Coupled with a Monday final. Many families of lower income have parents working weekends. Or they are certainly working on a Monday. I have a bit of flexibility with my job, but I was on conference calls the way up and back.

What reason other than parking revenue would there be to have a final on a Monday?

The actual soccer is expensive enough. But to tack on another $100 just to get to the fields coupled with possible lost income you can see why local unsanctioned leagues are popular.

 

[rainbow_unicorn]

If N'Golo Kante played in the US 8 years ago he would be on the USMNT as opposed to 9th division French league.

I don't agree that there is nowhere for non-DA 9 to 13 year olds to play...what about the thousands of non-DA club, AYSO or local teams? Also get tired of hearing about "look how Germany and Belgium have been successful". It's hard to draw an apples-to-apples comparison between the US and any other country in the world. Geographically the US is so big that the travel component is an issue in of itself. The US also has so many more sports that compete against soccer for the best athletes.

 

[younothat]

With regard to soccer not being affordable/accessible to lower income families...
My kid played in Copa Del Mar this past weekend. Well run tournament. Great fields. Good competition.
But....$10 per day for parking. Wife drive separate so we were $20 on Saturday. $10 on Sunday. Made the final which was played on Monday. $40 for parking.
Tank of gas back and forth from OC 8 times.
Coupled with a Monday final. Many families of lower income have parents working weekends. Or they are certainly working on a Monday. I have a bit of flexibility with my job, but I was in conference calls the way up and back.
The actual soccer is expensive enough. But to tack on another $100 just to get to the fields couple with possible lost income you can see why local unsanctioned leagues are popular.

Hotel Stay 3 nights; family room = $600
Gas, Food, entertainment $400
Tournament fee per player = $60-to 100. If you have multiple kids x2,x3 (Sponsored team maybe 0% or reduced cost)

Not uncommon to spend a $1K (grand) if you go out of town for a tournament even if its in San Diego.

If I didn't work for myself no way I could afford these tourneys for my kids . Much rather go to Hawaii for week and rent a condo if I'm spending thousands on tournaments each year. Even when there on sponsored teams travel is not covered for the family so we don't attend many

 

[younothat]

If N'Golo Kante played in the US 8 years ago he would be on the USMNT as opposed to 9th division French league.

I don't agree that there is nowhere for non-DA 9 to 13 year olds to play...what about the thousands of non-DA club, AYSO or local teams? Also get tired of hearing about "look how Germany and Belgium have been successful". It's hard to draw an apples-to-apples comparison between the US and any other country in the world. Geographically the US is so big that the travel component is an issue in of itself. The US also has so many more sports that compete against soccer for the best athletes.

N'Golo Kante was not the finished product you see today so who knows if he would even still be playing if he was in the US.

We have a lot of Latin unsanctioned leagues so there are places in Socal but don't think its like that in the rest of the US. AYSO has seen a drop off in numbers
https://www.socceramerica.com/publi...finds-big-drop-in-soccer-participation-i.html

 

[coachsamy]

The biggest issue I see with pay to play, that it is a social activity to massage the ego of parents. At the end of the day you need your neighbors kids that are not "good" enough to be in XYZ club to be able to play so the kids can meet up at their local park and play, like they do other sports.

 

[Dargle]

N'Golo Kante was not the finished product you see today so who knows if he would even still be playing if he was in the US.

We have a lot of Latin unsanctioned leagues so there are places in Socal but don't think its like that in the rest of the US. AYSO has seen a drop off in numbers
https://www.socceramerica.com/publi...finds-big-drop-in-soccer-participation-i.html

Some have argued that the birth year age group shift hurt AYSO, but I don't think so (AYSO delayed implementation until this coming year, so it wasn't responsible for the reported drop-off). What really hurt AYSO was an attempt to keep up. When I first started, a few top players moved from AYSO to club at U10 (some even played in both for a year or two), but most didn't move until U12 or U13. Then average players started moving over earlier as clubs expanded teams and the number of clubs grew (seeking money, competing with DA's drop to U12, etc) and club dropped down their youngest age groups from U10 to U8. AYSO tried to compete and created Extra/Plus or whatever other name you want to give to it. That really hurt AYSO, because they lost not only the upper half of the league in terms of skill to either club or Extra, but the top volunteer parents/coaches/referees too. Many AYSO regions had Extra teams at U10 and U11, but didn't even have enough quality kids to field one at U12 because Extra was just a gateway to club for most kids and those who didn't want to or couldn't make that jump in commitment didn't want to go back to the regular AYSO because it was seen as a demotion. Those are the saddest cases of kids who quit altogether, because they actually would have played quite successfully and for quite a few years more under the old system. The creation of Extra actually hastened their departures.

 

[Messi>CR7]

Twellman made some good points, but I would not call it a broken system. What we have is the end product based on our culture and priority.

My 10-year old DD loves watching soccer and watched about 15 WC matches with me. But when I asked if she ever discussed WC with her teammates, the answer was no. Soccer is not deep in our culture and there aren't enough local stars that inspire our kids to watch and play soccer all day on their own.

Pay-to-play, as many on this forum have pointed out, is necessary (especially for girls) since clubs don't get payments for developing young players in the US. Barcelona paid for Messi's growth medicine when he was an undersized kid. I don't know where that money would come from if Messi were playing in the US.

I think for many of us, soccer is a from of entertainment, a fabulous way to spend precious time with our kids, and perhaps a mean to improve the chance to get into a good college. I saw a Netflix documentary "Class of '92" that profiled an English team in the 7th division. If anything the show did a good job of portraying the love for futbol as men in their late 20s and 30s live and die to have one more shot at a soccer career. And "one more shot" merely means having a chance to play soccer semi-professionally (some don't get paid) while holding a day-time job somewhere else.

 

[46n2]

Remember in the 80's when you made All Star Team in baseball how everyone was super happy for you. Soccer has alot of jealously issues in the US.
In my country we just play and the pack gets divided as children evolved , in the US , people feel entitled because they PAY they think their kid CAN play....
Pls send all hatemail to my inbox .
Thank you.

 

[jrcaesar]

... kids who quit altogether, because they actually would have played quite successfully and for quite a few years more under the old system. The creation of Extra actually hastened their departures.

^^^Yes to this. Completely agree.^^^

 

[Grace T.]

The actual soccer is expensive enough. But to tack on another $100 just to get to the fields couple with possible lost income you can see why local unsanctioned leagues are popular.

Yup, for lower income families it's the time of work, transport, hotels and parking expenses. The problem isn't the jump from Latino League or AYSO to club....there are plenty of tracksuit coaches skulking around these games willing to offer quality players scholarships and clubs with lower fees aimed at low income players....it's that the players hit a ceiling when it comes time to advance beyond the flights 3 and 2 because then the travel becomes longer and the expenses heavier.

. The creation of Extra actually hastened their departures.

AYSO has doubled down on this approach by creating United, which is AYSO's entrant into the club soccer world. On the one hand, this allows for a great middle ground in soccer: lower fees, guaranteed play time, and clears out Extras for new players as they advance into United. On the other hand, it's further gutting the basic program from experienced coaches/refs and discourages kids who don't make it.

My 10-year old DD loves watching soccer and watched about 15 WC matches with me. But when I asked if she ever discussed WC with her teammates, the answer was no. Soccer is not deep in our culture and there aren't enough local stars that inspire our kids to watch and play soccer all day on their own.

.

This might be a girl/boy thing. At One Soccer Camp, my son tells me the boys and male coaches all had rousing discussions and arguments during the world cup, with players following their preferred teams religiously (even giving up swim time to watch their team's games).

Remember in the 80's when you made All Star Team in baseball how everyone was super happy for you. Soccer has alot of jealously issues in the US.
In my country we just play and the pack gets divided as children evolved , in the US , people feel entitled because they PAY they think their kid CAN play....
Pls send all hatemail to my inbox .
Thank you.

All Star Team selection both in soccer and other sports have become highly political, which was one of the reasons parents pushed for the creation of other products. With my older, I remember his basketball league's allstar team was made up mostly of coach's and referee's sons.

 

[46n2]

[/QUOTE] All Star Team selection both in soccer and other sports have become highly political, which was one of the reasons parents pushed for the creation of other products. With my older, I remember his basketball league's allstar team was made up mostly of coach's and referee's sons.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, thats why my kids play soccer--

 

[jrcaesar]

AYSO has doubled down on this approach by creating United, which is AYSO's entrant into the club soccer world.

AYSO is telling families, "If your kid is Rec Level Good, then (s)he should be playing Club. And, hey, we have that now."

They should be doing the opposite: "If your kid is Rec Level Good, then get them off that Flight 3 team, get them out of Club, and have them play in AYSO."

 

[Sportyspice]

With regard to soccer not being affordable/accessible to lower income families...
My kid played in Copa Del Mar this past weekend. Well run tournament. Great fields. Good competition.
But....$10 per day for parking. Wife drove separate so we were $20 on Saturday. $10 on Sunday. Made the final which was played on Monday. $40 for parking.
Tank of gas back and forth from OC 8 times.
Coupled with a Monday final. Many families of lower income have parents working weekends. Or they are certainly working on a Monday. I have a bit of flexibility with my job, but I was on conference calls the way up and back.

What reason other than parking revenue would there be to have a final on a Monday?

The actual soccer is expensive enough. But to tack on another $100 just to get to the fields couple with possible lost income you can see why local unsanctioned leagues are popular.

Don't get me started. We have two kids playing now so it was $10 at the Polo Fields & $12 at Oceanside Sports Complex. Forget inviting family & friends its gotten to be ridiculous. And yesss!!! Please tell me why games need to spill over to Mondays again?

It has gotten to be a bit too much. This is a small version of a complete rant I can have regarding this but I wont.

 

[soccer dude]

Don't get me started. We have two kids playing now so it was $10 at the Polo Fields & $12 at Oceanside Sports Complex. Forget inviting family & friends its gotten to be ridiculous. And yesss!!! Please tell me why games need to spill over to Mondays again?

It has gotten to be a bit too much. This is a small version of a complete rant I can have regarding this but I wont.

I agree that Monday is a total money maker. There needs to be some monitoring system in the US that prevents clubs from doing this to the parents. I love surf cup but not the Monday consolation games where everyone needs to come back. I'm sorry, if we don't make the semi's, I'd rather go home and forgo the 1 day of overpayment. In my day (and in 2014 or earlier), only the best teams competed on Monday and that's the way it should be! On a side note, I know so many parents that treat these tournaments like a vacation and stay in nice hotels, eat expensive meals, etc.. For me, it's all about soccer. Scratch the nice hotels and meals and let's focus on soccer. I remember on an old team of mine where I complained about having to spend $250/night at surf cup hotel for 3 nights. All the other parents were fine with it and even said "we're not staying in a cheap hotel". It's the culture that's wrong with soccer and I blame the parents a lot for feeding into this image persona. Tell me again how staying in a nice hotel means your kid is a great player...

 

[El Macho]

I believe that Club coaches do not work together due to egos or financial security. Two common complaints I see on the sidelines is playing time or the team not being competitive.

You see players sitting too many minutes on the bench or a team with players at many levels on a team. No player will develop to their potential without playing. This is especially true at the younger ages.

You see players that should drop to a lower level team and players that should move up. The problem is that coaches are constantly competing against each other even though at the same Club. DOC's need to think of age groups as one team.

Just look at the big Clubs. You will sometimes see 3 teams that are all highly competitive with three different coaches. All these teams have 3 players that get very little playing time and players that if put together would challenge themselves to be better. In the end one team gets top billing the other two break up and move to different Clubs.

Its a long conversation but in the end. Club has too many egos and too little money for Coaches to work together.

Parents also need to relax and be realistic. Just because you spend a lot of money does not mean you are getting the best training. Good teams are usually recruited just look at DA. There are some Clubs that develop but a lot buld their teams through recruiting from other Clubs. If you see a top tier team with the majority coming within the Club then thats a good system.

Then you also have the politics. Only certain voices are heard and not thoroughly looked at.

So I think the DOC's are were to start. They should mandate coaches to work together. They should also be more involved. How many times do you see a DOC go to a Flight 3 practice? Check not only players but his staff? What about the main DOC coming to check how the affiliate Clubs are being organized?

So, I would start with holding the DOC's more accountable for the quality of their program.

 

[*GOBEARGO*]

With regard to soccer not being affordable/accessible to lower income families...
My kid played in Copa Del Mar this past weekend. Well run tournament. Great fields. Good competition.
But....$10 per day for parking. Wife drove separate so we were $20 on Saturday. $10 on Sunday. Made the final which was played on Monday. $40 for parking.
Tank of gas back and forth from OC 8 times.
Coupled with a Monday final. Many families of lower income have parents working weekends. Or they are certainly working on a Monday. I have a bit of flexibility with my job, but I was on conference calls the way up and back.

What reason other than parking revenue would there be to have a final on a Monday?

The actual soccer is expensive enough. But to tack on another $100 just to get to the fields coupled with possible lost income you can see why local unsanctioned leagues are popular.

Unfortunately as the saying goes "Build it and they will come" & I was one of the "they".

 

[jpeter]

Remember in the 80's when you made All Star Team in baseball how everyone was super happy for you. Soccer has alot of jealously issues in the US.
In my country we just play and the pack gets divided as children evolved , in the US , people feel entitled because they PAY they think their kid CAN play....
Pls send all hatemail to my inbox .
Thank you.

Oh yeah I recall those days played over the line at the beach and sandlot until 11 when I could ride my bike far enough 4 or so miles each way to get to the local LL.

The coaches picked the all star starters but the players got to vote on the rest. After waiting through the coaches anoucements I was finally called up to my surprised but was stoked to later hear every player on the team voted for me. The star pitcher on the team got drafted out of HS and had a pretty good MLB career but bounced around a bit before his arm went out in his late 20's.

To be picked by my peers motivatied me to keep working hard at baseball and HS ball was a great time highlighted by the city playoffs at Dodger's stadium.

 

[AFC]

I agree that Monday is a total money maker. There needs to be some monitoring system in the US that prevents clubs from doing this to the parents. I love surf cup but not the Monday consolation games where everyone needs to come back. I'm sorry, if we don't make the semi's, I'd rather go home and forgo the 1 day of overpayment. In my day (and in 2014 or earlier), only the best teams competed on Monday and that's the way it should be! On a side note, I know so many parents that treat these tournaments like a vacation and stay in nice hotels, eat expensive meals, etc.. For me, it's all about soccer. Scratch the nice hotels and meals and let's focus on soccer. I remember on an old team of mine where I complained about having to spend $250/night at surf cup hotel for 3 nights. All the other parents were fine with it and even said "we're not staying in a cheap hotel". It's the culture that's wrong with soccer and I blame the parents a lot for feeding into this image persona. Tell me again how staying in a nice hotel means your kid is a great player...

Did you ever stayed at Red Roof Inn in Lancaster?

 

[Surfref]

N'Golo Kante was not the finished product you see today so who knows if he would even still be playing if he was in the US.

We have a lot of Latin unsanctioned leagues so there are places in Socal but don't think its like that in the rest of the US. AYSO has seen a drop off in numbers
https://www.socceramerica.com/publi...finds-big-drop-in-soccer-participation-i.html

Interesting read. My daughter and I were talking about soccer coaches the other day while driving home after an afternoon of refereeing. She is a club coach (2nd year), referee, and college player. To summarize her thoughts as a coach, she thinks that club coaches do not receive enough training and are over paid. She was shocked to learn that coaches do not have to attend a designated number of hours of mandatory structured (USSF approved) annual training like referees. The club where she coaches does hold bi-monthly all-coach meetings that include some type of coach training. She has a couple friends/college players that also coach club and both of them receive no training from their clubs.

It really surprised me that she said most coaches are overpaid. She makes $400 a month (works out to about $17 an hour) and coaches G8 and G14 teams. She also does privates ($35 for an one hour plus) and has 3 players that she works with 4 times a month and another 5 that she works with 1-3 times a month. She usually makes $500 to $600 a month from privates. She thinks that what she makes is sufficient especially for a second year coach who is attending college fulltime. One of her friends, who my daughter thinks is way over paid, is making $800 a month (works out to $50 an hour) for a G12 team plus charges the two G12 players she does privates with as a pair for $80 an hour, and she just got her coaching license this past winter. My daughter did say that her friend has tons of pressure from the club to win, while my daughters club wants her to develop the skills and love of the game for the G8's and with the G14 to make sure they are enjoying the game and learning advanced tactics. I agree with my daughter that coaches who only coach a couple teams should not (didn't want a Trump slip) be making enough to use their club coaching salary as their sole means of income and be making enough to afford a $50K+ car and $500K+ house. If you club soccer were to lower some of these crazy high coaching salaries, maybe clubs could lower their fees a little and be more affordable.