US SOCCER

[Grace T.]

The Costa Rica Game:



The MLS will improve over the next 10 to 20 years, but the players in the MLS that have talent must rethink their priorities and move to International play if our USMNT is going to improve and compete.

I agree that in the short term the best solution is for Americans to play overseas but I point out there are barriers to having that happen. First, there's the fact that Europeans are skeptical of our players and are unlikely to give them the benefit of the doubt in trying out....breaking into that system is hard unless like Pulisic you've got some connections or have played there as a youth. Second, there's the language barrier. Third, there's the immigration barrier....in part because the US is tough on Europeans immigrating to the United States and working here the EU reciprocates. Pulisic holds dual citizenship with Croatia (wonder if he regrets not playing for Croatia now?) and so was able to avoid that trap, but otherwise a European team would have to use it's very limited exceptions to bring on an American and they've just been reluctant to do that unless they need someone in particular (like a goalkeeper) or that player is something truly outstanding and a proven value. Fourth, there's the tax barrier...the US treats income earned overseas as being earned here which (depending on the treaty with a country) can lead to double taxation as it will be taxed both by the country being played in and by the US (at a minimum, it requires hiring a tax lawyer to navigate). Fifth, some European leagues have local national quotas (formal and informal) which means again a slot to an American would be precious and not easily given away. So in some ways this is easier said than done. Long term (I agree the short term is a lost cause) our biggest hope is reforming the MLS.

Two minor quibbles with your post: I don't think Howard would count as MLS given his extensive experience both playing overseas and with the US National Team (I'd have marked him mixed, or should have been disqualified for other reasons such as his age and that his style of play is no longer current)...also AYSO United plays within the various leagues and while they couldn't play DA theoretically they can play gold.

 

[MWN]

I agree that in the short term the best solution is for Americans to play overseas but I point out there are barriers to having that happen. First, there's the fact that Europeans are skeptical of our players and are unlikely to give them the benefit of the doubt in trying out....breaking into that system is hard unless like Pulisic you've got some connections or have played there as a youth. Second, there's the language barrier. Third, there's the immigration barrier....in part because the US is tough on Europeans immigrating to the United States and working here the EU reciprocates. Pulisic holds dual citizenship with Croatia (wonder if he regrets not playing for Croatia now?) and so was able to avoid that trap, but otherwise a European team would have to use it's very limited exceptions to bring on an American and they've just been reluctant to do that unless they need someone in particular (like a goalkeeper) or that player is something truly outstanding and a proven value. Fourth, there's the tax barrier...the US treats income earned overseas as being earned here which (depending on the treaty with a country) can lead to double taxation as it will be taxed both by the country being played in and by the US (at a minimum, it requires hiring a tax lawyer to navigate). Fifth, some European leagues have local national quotas (formal and informal) which means again a slot to an American would be precious and not easily given away. So in some ways this is easier said than done. Long term (I agree the short term is a lost cause) our biggest hope is reforming the MLS.

Two minor quibbles with your post: I don't think Howard would count as MLS given his extensive experience both playing overseas and with the US National Team (I'd have marked him mixed, or should have been disqualified for other reasons such as his age and that his style of play is no longer current)...also AYSO United plays within the various leagues and while they couldn't play DA theoretically they can play gold.

@Grace T. , yes and no.

1. Disagree. Europeans are not skeptical in as much as they don't want to deal with the hassels that come with non-EU Country passport holders that are minors. FIFA's Article 19 anti-child trafficking provisions make it near impossible for U18's to train and play for European academies. The 2 main exceptions are EU passport holder (Pulisic and Lederman); or parents are in EU working for a totally non-soccer related reason.

Its a business for these guys and they want the best of the best whether the kid is from Arizona or Mozambique.

2. Language barrier is not that significant for English speakers as most Europeans and Latin American's know a little english.

3. See 1, above. Its not an immigration barrier as a FIFA Article 19 problem.

4. Tax implications are minor to non-existant. US Citizens earning income abroad have two tax reductions, these are the "Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (FEIE)" and the "Foreign Tax Credit." Basically, US Citizens are going to pay no more than they would have if they earned the income in the US. So no double tax problem that would cause them to pay more ... unless they are being tax at a rate higher by their host country, then they pay that tax but not US tax.

5. True, quotas exist, but the top level talent always has a seat at the table.

AYSO matrix/united/??? - I know you are an AYSO gal, so lets just agree that there are always some teams that are just great and AYSO United may have a team or two that can play at the Gold or Premiere level, but the vast majority of AYSO United teams are Bronze to Silver (aka Flight 3 or 2). See, https://coastsoccer.us/web/coastsoccer/clubs?YEAR=2017&CLUB=611&Send+Form=Go! and https://coastsoccer.us/web/coastsoccer/clubs?YEAR=2017&CLUB=982 and https://coastsoccer.us/web/coastsoccer/clubs?YEAR=2017&CLUB=983

Howard doesn't count as a European player because (1) he was playing in the MLS and (2) he would have been out of work if still in Europe and frankly should have never been on the USMNT as his time had passed as a USMNT player. He left Europe to go back the US where he would have a job. We have better US National's playing in Europe that should have been between the sticks and arguably, if they were the results might have been different. Indeed, Howard is the perfect example of our F'up from a rostering point of view. If you can't cut it in Premiere or Champions league then you should be ineligible for the USMNT.

 

[Grace T.]

If you can't cut it in Premiere or Champions league then you should be ineligible for the USMNT.

great point about the trafficking rules. I wasn’t aware. But it sets up an thorny chicken and egg problem. I think we both concur that for Europe to take a chance on a player that player has to be more than mls caliber (ie something special). But how then does the player get to be good enough to be considered if they don’t hold a European passport? It’s kinda like my first exec job: I’d do a great job but had no experience, but how do I get the experience if no one would hire me.

The tax issue varies from country the country depending on treaty and for high earners the deduction is capped. I had to do a stint in the UK for a bit and it was a tax nightmare. My sibling did one in Spain which was harder immigration wise but easier re taxes. There’s also the issue of us nationals opening bank accounts— because of the money laundering provisions put in place after 9 11, foreign banks make it difficult to open accounts unless you hold an eu passport.

 

[InTheValley]

Now your comparing the bay area to Minnesota? Housing is what 4x, entertainment 3x, and so forth so what. The population density is much different so is the cost of living, so what? No comparsion, the bay area alone is worth more than the whole State of MN and almost everything is more expensive.

What are you even talking about? You claimed that Quakes are going bankrupt because they sell fewer tickets than Minnesota. I simply pointed out that you’re a moron because ticket sales are irrelevant to your argument. Instead, it’s revenue from those sales that helps determine whether a company makes money.

The price of land has nothing to do with anything, other than its appreciating far faster in SJ, which doesn’t exactly help your argument. And the cost of living has nothing to do with whether a team turns a profit or loss. Do you want to know something that isn’t 3x as expensive in SJ, though? Team payroll. In fact, Minnesota has a higher payroll than the Quakes. The Quakes are raking in 3x the ticket revenue with lower payroll, which is really something. They’ve also got land interests that are far more valuable than Minnesota and which are appreciating far more quickly.

 

[mahrez]

What are you even talking about? You claimed that Quakes are going bankrupt because they sell fewer tickets than Minnesota. I simply pointed out that you’re a moron because ticket sales are irrelevant to your argument. Instead, it’s revenue from those sales that helps determine whether a company makes money.

The price of land has nothing to do with anything, other than its appreciating far faster in SJ, which doesn’t exactly help your argument. And the cost of living has nothing to do with whether a team turns a profit or loss. Do you want to know something that isn’t 3x as expensive in SJ, though? Team payroll. In fact, Minnesota has a higher payroll than the Quakes. The Quakes are raking in 3x the ticket revenue with lower payroll, which is really something. They’ve also got land interests that are far more valuable than Minnesota and which are appreciating far more quickly.

Nope your arguing with yourself like you have with others in this thread.

Quakes are a money losing operation and have been for many years, their parent company sandstone has been keeping them afloat. The stadium sponser is bankrupt and haven't been paying there licensing fees, contributing to the finanical losses. MLS has been losing mutiple millions ever year for 20+ with no end in sight, deep pocket parent companies and rich individual familes have keep the league going even when teams like Chivas USA lost a estimated 50 million over ten yrs before the league stepped in and took over.

If you learn to comprehend or read better we can continue. MU a 2nd year small market team outdraws quakes like i mentioned. End of story, but you cant let it go & mentioned ticket prices, payrolls, etc because you have nothing else to contribute but more BS. Do you ever post anything of value or just more of this nonsense like NFL.

 

[jrcaesar]

AYSO matrix/united/??? - I know you are an AYSO gal, so lets just agree that there are always some teams that are just great and AYSO United may have a team or two that can play at the Gold or Premiere level, but the vast majority of AYSO United teams are Bronze to Silver (aka Flight 3 or 2).

Up 'til now, most AYSO kids who would otherwise enable an AYSO team to reach Gold leave for other clubs. The new structure will keep teams and families together longer, which is good overall. But eventually the mandatory 50% playing rule is going to kick in and the teams either won't have their stars playing enough minutes or Players 6-16 will be interchangable ... but not quite good enough to compete vs. Gold teams where all 14 players are Good+, and they are playing heavy minutes. (That's the difference I see between Silver and Gold - Silver teams have 6-8 really good players, Gold teams have 12.) The road to Gold and Premiere is stacked against them.

 

[InTheValley]

Nope your arguing with yourself like you have with others in this thread.

Quakes are a money losing operation and have been for many years, their parent company sandstone has been keeping them afloat. The stadium sponser is bankrupt and haven't been paying there licensing fees, contributing to the finanical losses. MLS has been losing mutiple millions ever year for 20+ with no end in sight, deep pocket parent companies and rich individual familes have keep the league going even when teams like Chivas USA lost a estimated 50 million over ten yrs before the league stepped in and took over.

If you learn to comprehend or read better we can continue. MU a 2nd year small market team outdraws quakes like i mentioned. End of story, but you cant let it go & mentioned ticket prices, payrolls, etc because you have nothing else to contribute but more BS. Do you ever post anything of value or just more of this nonsense like NFL.

I only post the facts and the truth. Whine all you want, but I’m just describing what is actually happening in the real world, and why. You’re fawning over P/R like you’re looking at a photo of Kate Upton and rubbing one out. No matter how badly you want them, though, both will only ever be fantasies. Neither your wife nor the MLS are very glamorous, that is true, but they’re what is real and the best you’re ever gonna get.

 

[Zdrone]

You’re fawning over P/R like you’re looking at a photo of Kate Upton and rubbing one out.

Wait, someone else does this?

I need a new Sports Illustrated

 

[Justafan]

I swear to f’n god, this thread has the longest f’n posts of all time! I’ve tried to follow a couple of times, stroll down a little bit, see the length of the posts, and say F’ this crap, it’s not with it and on to the next thread.