What’s the latest with West Coast FC/OC Surf merger

mirage said:
Maybe for now on the girls side. Not the case for the boys side.

Couple of big factors are that:

1) DA has been around for 10 years or so and call the coaches use the system as a filter to get to the top 1~2% as there are more DA players graduating in any given year than the total number of recruits in a year at D1 and D2.

2) There are simply less schools that play mens soccer than women's due to Title IX resource constraints.

Since DA is new and ECNL while very successful, women's coaches are not trained to take advantage of the DA system yet. My sense is that it will change.

As for DA2, ECNL and so on really don't matter as they are viewed as just like regular club teams in a top tier competition.

Do players outside of DA get recruited on the boys side - absolutely. But its much harder to get their attention.

It may not be brain surgery, but it may be rocket science.....
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WTDoesn't
mirage said:
Maybe for now on the girls side. Not the case for the boys side.

Couple of big factors are that:

1) DA has been around for 10 years or so and call the coaches use the system as a filter to get to the top 1~2% as there are more DA players graduating in any given year than the total number of recruits in a year at D1 and D2.

2) There are simply less schools that play mens soccer than women's due to Title IX resource constraints.

Since DA is new and ECNL while very successful, women's coaches are not trained to take advantage of the DA system yet. My sense is that it will change.

As for DA2, ECNL and so on really don't matter as they are viewed as just like regular club teams in a top tier competition.

Do players outside of DA get recruited on the boys side - absolutely. But its much harder to get their attention.

It may not be brain surgery, but it may be rocket science.....
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WTF makes you think brain surgery is more difficult than rocket science? Maybe that's your problem. Its not that difficult, find the best team with the best coach. Doesn't matter the name over the door. If your kid is good they are good. You play 40-50 games a year you train 100 - 125 times a year. What's more important? If the training sucks which frankly most does in SoCal find the best coach. Our team beat the crap out of each other in training because that was the environment created. We were our own best competition. 3 out of 4 Nat Cup wins - 3 consecutive, National League championship, 3 trips to National Championships - a win and a loss in the finals. Always went to Surf, Vegas Showcase. 12 out of 18 D1 players, 1 a regular with the U20's, others called in from time to time. And 2 with NCAA Natty's. No ECNL, no DA, a shitload of ODP.
 
pulguita said:
WTDoesn't


WTF makes you think brain surgery is more difficult than rocket science? Maybe that's your problem. Its not that difficult, find the best team with the best coach. Doesn't matter the name over the door. If your kid is good they are good. You play 40-50 games a year you train 100 - 125 times a year. What's more important? If the training sucks which frankly most does in SoCal find the best coach. Our team beat the crap out of each other in training because that was the environment created. We were our own best competition. 3 out of 4 Nat Cup wins - 3 consecutive, National League championship, 3 trips to National Championships - a win and a loss in the finals. Always went to Surf, Vegas Showcase. 12 out of 18 D1 players, 1 a regular with the U20's, others called in from time to time. And 2 with NCAA Natty's. No ECNL, no DA, a shitload of ODP.
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that's so cool for you
 
pulguita said:
WTF makes you think brain surgery is more difficult than rocket science?....
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Well, I am a rocket scientist/engineer and I believe brain surgery is more difficult because its not straight forward and not necessarily governed by the laws of physics and chemistry.

pulguita said:
......We were our own best competition. 3 out of 4 Nat Cup wins - 3 consecutive, National League championship, 3 trips to National Championships - a win and a loss in the finals. Always went to Surf, Vegas Showcase. 12 out of 18 D1 players, 1 a regular with the U20's, others called in from time to time. And 2 with NCAA Natty's. No ECNL, no DA, a shitload of ODP.
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Nice, but what if you are not on the team you speak of. That's one team. How many players are looking for exposure? The original comment was made in general to say that DA/ECNL do offer more exposure and provide coaches with filtering to the top few percents. The fact that your kid's team was successful is wonderful for everyone on the team. They are the exception rather than the rule.
 
mirage said:
Well, I am a rocket scientist/engineer and I believe brain surgery is more difficult because its not straight forward and not necessarily governed by the laws of physics and chemistry.



Nice, but what if you are not on the team you speak of. That's one team. How many players are looking for exposure? The original comment was made in general to say that DA/ECNL do offer more exposure and provide coaches with filtering to the top few percents. The fact that your kid's team was successful is wonderful for everyone on the team. They are the exception rather than the rule.
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Yes and so am I. And have done many things that experts have said can't be done.
 
mirage said:
Well, I am a rocket scientist/engineer and I believe brain surgery is more difficult because its not straight forward and not necessarily governed by the laws of physics and chemistry.



Nice, but what if you are not on the team you speak of. That's one team. How many players are looking for exposure? The original comment was made in general to say that DA/ECNL do offer more exposure and provide coaches with filtering to the top few percents. The fact that your kid's team was successful is wonderful for everyone on the team. They are the exception rather than the rule.
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A rocket scientist would know that everything is bound by the laws of physics and chemistry, brain surgery included.
 
mirage said:
Well, I am a rocket scientist/engineer and I believe brain surgery is more difficult because its not straight forward and not necessarily governed by the laws of physics and chemistry.



Nice, but what if you are not on the team you speak of. That's one team. How many players are looking for exposure? The original comment was made in general to say that DA/ECNL do offer more exposure and provide coaches with filtering to the top few percents. The fact that your kid's team was successful is wonderful for everyone on the team. They are the exception rather than the rule.
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Thats not an exception - except maybe the number of kids who play on one team and also play ODP. Given I read that correctly. Kids get plucked out of ODP consistently to play D1. Also depends on the DA they play at. Last season saw a team that had a couple kids return from a Galaxy DA because their parents said "They have regressed". As mentioned, if you are good, they find you. Doesnt matter if you are in DA, ECNL, HS, Flight 1 or wherever. Where do you think ODP coaches work at? They are all scouts, work at colleges, high schools, universities and all network. Unless your kid is playing at a random mexican league, not going to float under the radar or be underexposed.

The Brain Surgery vs Rocket Science is an infinite circular argumentative loop. Most can not do each other's jobs. In the end if either screw up, people die.
 
Not_that_Serious said:
Thats not an exception - except maybe the number of kids who play on one team and also play ODP. Given I read that correctly. Kids get plucked out of ODP consistently to play D1. Also depends on the DA they play at. Last season saw a team that had a couple kids return from a Galaxy DA because their parents said "They have regressed". As mentioned, if you are good, they find you. Doesnt matter if you are in DA, ECNL, HS, Flight 1 or wherever. Where do you think ODP coaches work at? They are all scouts, work at colleges, high schools, universities and all network. Unless your kid is playing at a random mexican league, not going to float under the radar or be underexposed.

The Brain Surgery vs Rocket Science is an infinite circular argumentative loop. Most can not do each other's jobs. In the end if either screw up, people die.
Click to expand...

With the advent of the Girls DA, ODP is now a tier down. It is seen as an outside event that DA players do not participate in, which is made clear in the contacts the families sign. If you play ECNL or any other league, it is still available to you.

So ODP stands for Olympic Development Program and those kids were the best of the best (so it was said - nothing to do with being good AND on a big club and getting recommendations or anything...).

Well US Soccer runs our International & Olympic team and they want a bigger talent pool nationally that is being trained to play the system they want to run on these teams. Those players are now in the Development Academy. While I'm sure recommendations mean a lot, the difference is there is a US Soccer scout at every game to judge who they like and every game is filmed so any recommendation by this scout or a coaching staff can now be substantiated by video of at least 720p HD quality. Reality is, most of the girls going to the National Team call ups are the same as the ones before. Will that change.... probably not for a couple of years (5 or so).

To keep to the more realistic goal of 99% of the girls in the DA program of getting to college, they have 3 major college showcases. They are held in December in Florida, April (no permanent address - North Carolina this year) and June in Carlsbad, CA.

This Personal Service Announcement brought to you by.... "I've seen many girls on ODP teams invite lists that weren't even close to being the best or most deserving players on the team or club, but their parents sure did suck up well! I don't pay the coaches so I have to suck up to them for her to get recognition or play time. I pay them to develop and coach her. They need to do their damn jobs!".
 
C.A.M. said:
With the advent of the Girls DA, ODP is now a tier down. It is seen as an outside event that DA players do not participate in, which is made clear in the contacts the families sign. If you play ECNL or any other league, it is still available to you.

So ODP stands for Olympic Development Program and those kids were the best of the best (so it was said - nothing to do with being good AND on a big club and getting recommendations or anything...).

Well US Soccer runs our International & Olympic team and they want a bigger talent pool nationally that is being trained to play the system they want to run on these teams. Those players are now in the Development Academy. While I'm sure recommendations mean a lot, the difference is there is a US Soccer scout at every game to judge who they like and every game is filmed so any recommendation by this scout or a coaching staff can now be substantiated by video of at least 720p HD quality. Reality is, most of the girls going to the National Team call ups are the same as the ones before. Will that change.... probably not for a couple of years (5 or so).

To keep to the more realistic goal of 99% of the girls in the DA program of getting to college, they have 3 major college showcases. They are held in December in Florida, April (no permanent address - North Carolina this year) and June in Carlsbad, CA.

This Personal Service Announcement brought to you by.... "I've seen many girls on ODP teams invite lists that weren't even close to being the best or most deserving players on the team or club, but their parents sure did suck up well! I don't pay the coaches so I have to suck up to them for her to get recognition or play time. I pay them to develop and coach her. They need to do their damn jobs!".
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Can you clarify your point? I read your post a couple of times and can't understand what it is that you are saying. Maybe since it is not my native tongue. It sounds to me like you are making a connection between ODP and USSF and there is none. It also appears to me that you are saying that ODP invites only go to the best of the best (or did prior to these season of GDA) and that coach's recommendations do not play a part? Or that is they do send a recommendation the scouts (?) can now look at the DA video and substantiate the recommendation? What about a player not playing DA?

I apologize for my confusion because I either completely misunderstood your post or you have no idea what you are talking about. So I am guessing it was me.
 
El Clasico said:
Can you clarify your point? I read your post a couple of times and can't understand what it is that you are saying. Maybe since it is not my native tongue. It sounds to me like you are making a connection between ODP and USSF and there is none. It also appears to me that you are saying that ODP invites only go to the best of the best (or did prior to these season of GDA) and that coach's recommendations do not play a part? Or that is they do send a recommendation the scouts (?) can now look at the DA video and substantiate the recommendation? What about a player not playing DA?

I apologize for my confusion because I either completely misunderstood your post or you have no idea what you are talking about. So I am guessing it was me.
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You only thought you didn't speak my language. You understood my points to the tee.

Simplified - ODP isn't what is was prior to DA. :)
 
Not_that_Serious said:
Thats not an exception - except maybe the number of kids who play on one team and also play ODP. Given I read that correctly. Kids get plucked out of ODP consistently to play D1. Also depends on the DA they play at. Last season saw a team that had a couple kids return from a Galaxy DA because their parents said "They have regressed". As mentioned, if you are good, they find you. Doesnt matter if you are in DA, ECNL, HS, Flight 1 or wherever. Where do you think ODP coaches work at? They are all scouts, work at colleges, high schools, universities and all network. Unless your kid is playing at a random mexican league, not going to float under the radar or be underexposed.

The Brain Surgery vs Rocket Science is an infinite circular argumentative loop. Most can not do each other's jobs. In the end if either screw up, people die.
Click to expand...

Since its inception, DA has avoided competition with non-DA teams. There's a missing link in the calibration cycle there.
 
C.A.M. said:
With the advent of the Girls DA, ODP is now a tier down. It is seen as an outside event that DA players do not participate in, which is made clear in the contacts the families sign. If you play ECNL or any other league, it is still available to you.

So ODP stands for Olympic Development Program and those kids were the best of the best (so it was said - nothing to do with being good AND on a big club and getting recommendations or anything...).

Well US Soccer runs our International & Olympic team and they want a bigger talent pool nationally that is being trained to play the system they want to run on these teams. Those players are now in the Development Academy. While I'm sure recommendations mean a lot, the difference is there is a US Soccer scout at every game to judge who they like and every game is filmed so any recommendation by this scout or a coaching staff can now be substantiated by video of at least 720p HD quality. Reality is, most of the girls going to the National Team call ups are the same as the ones before. Will that change.... probably not for a couple of years (5 or so).

To keep to the more realistic goal of 99% of the girls in the DA program of getting to college, they have 3 major college showcases. They are held in December in Florida, April (no permanent address - North Carolina this year) and June in Carlsbad, CA.

This Personal Service Announcement brought to you by.... "I've seen many girls on ODP teams invite lists that weren't even close to being the best or most deserving players on the team or club, but their parents sure did suck up well! I don't pay the coaches so I have to suck up to them for her to get recognition or play time. I pay them to develop and coach her. They need to do their damn jobs!".
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That was all over the place. Saying the best play here or there is pretty subjective - especially if you take the 10 year history of DA in to account. Someone floated the graphic around, showing DA hasnt been successful in turning kids into pros. Take away professional soccer and look at just college. Are there more specific events where they can see DA kids? yeah, some even created for that sole purpose as mentioned. This doesnt mean those same scouts arent scouting at ODP - because they do. If you play on an ODP team in So Cal - you are good. To depute that would be ignorant. I can even make your point stronger as stats show 89% of kids playing for YNTs are from DA - BUT, this does account for the systemic issues at US Soccer. US Soccer pushes to make these stats reality. The more they can create this narrative that "DA or Bust", the further they can control the system. So coaches are going to pull from DA first. Colleges are going to pull from everywhere because they arent tied at the hip with US Soccer - but they have been pushing to "help" the NCAA more. It also helps that kids in DA, for the most part, are good. P

That service announcement is beyond confusing. ODP training is paid for (for the most part), so what parent is paying for their kid to play? Selections are also done free of the club/team coach. You cant even recommend your own players. At best you can invite the coach of an age group to come out and watch games - which they go around doing anyway. Also, how do you know what a coach values? Judy might score every game but what if she is lazy? Maybe a coach likes the cookie-cutter 6-2 defender or might like them faster with more ball skill. Also depends on what system the coach uses. You are developing a team, not a cast of heroes. Funny you think ODP has lower ethical values than clubs at DA - a place where you can actually pay to be on the team.

PS I think everyone here knows what ODP is, what ECNL is and restrictions DA places on players. Part of the reason why some clubs have vanished around the country and why we have had a ton of mergers this past year. Many players, female and male have said they are not going to have US Soccer and Big Club Soccer dictate to them what they cant and can do. Some parents buy in to the madness perpetuated by their clubs and us soccer but if your child is very talented, doesnt matter if they are at DA, ODP, ECNL, XYZ - theyll get found and be offered to play somewhere.
 
Not_that_Serious said:
exactly. so to say DA is better than teams at XYZ is absurd. all a controlled environment.
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I don't think DA cares about this nor should they. Their mission is to find players for the National teams. They want DA to focus on development. It's the parents that want the various leagues to allow their teams to play each other so that they can determine which team is better. I bet most players could care less too.
 
Simisoccerfan said:
I don't think DA cares about this nor should they. Their mission is to find players for the National teams. They want DA to focus on development. It's the parents that want the various leagues to allow their teams to play each other so that they can determine which team is better. I bet most players could care less too.
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Where does DA publish their "development" standings?
 
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